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Are Treat Bags really the hated wheels of chance / eggs in disguise?

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Yep. Same concept wrapped in a different way..... Still chance- still sucks

Replies

  • richardaca969
    1058 posts
    edited October 2014
    No. They're not. It's a randomizer, yes, but if you consider this gambling, kill yourself now, because so is doing basically anything ever.
  • teo47
    944 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    Not really...over the long run the distribution of items you will get is fixed and therefore not highly dependent on chance. The Easter boxes with a few desirable prizes mixed with boxes and boxes of fences and egg piles were vastly more frustrating than this!
    New neighbors always welcome!
  • wildminion
    552 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    No. They're not. It's a randomizer, yes, but if you consider this gambling, kill yourself now, because so is doing basically anything ever.

    Take a chill pill dude, I never mentioned gambling, just making a civil observation.

    Thanks Annathewicked - nice to knowl I'm not the only one thinking these bags are the same as before, presented a different way.
  • Zozobras
    608 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    Yes, cleverly disguised, so that we use a maximum of donuts.

    My freemium town wasn't able to obtain the donut machine or the hovercraft. Still working for the Grand Pumpkin.

    In my premium town for this "stage" already behind with the daily 'estimated' protein strings needed to make it, so I'll have to use donuts or pass without Burn's skin.

    Only 90 actions at neighbors. 5 per alien squished in yout own town. Still two when catching a gremlin.
    And yet we have to make around 17,000 BUY BUY BUY

    The number of broken fences, chocolates etc to craft items make it difficult to estimate results.

    So yes wheels on wheels. Boxes withing boxes.
    I HATE CRAFTING. CRAFTING? Bah! Humbug!
    tstoforum
  • Annathewicked
    4727 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    They definitely are the same idea- you can work as hard as possible and not get all the prizes merely by the chance items do or do not drop..... Same as the wheel- right spin, you got the prize - wrong one- eggs or something else worthless. Bags and bags and bags opened and hoping you get the right parts to make something is the same- just presented differently so we didn't all see it at first..... But now we are 2 rounds down and I'm sure people who worked their *!% off didn't get everything, just by chance
    PM me- I DO need Good Neighboreenos currently
  • drumnman
    1475 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    I don't get the overwhelming urge to throw things when I deal with these bags as I did with the eggs. Also, the eggs gave us a chance at a chance to win an item. While there is an element of chance to the bags this year, it's not nearly the Skinner Box-esque mind $!%# that was Easter.

    Additionally, we had no recourse for purchasing sought after items if we didn't score them in our eggs. That left us paying donuts for eggs that MAY contain the prize we want (but you were more likely to end up with a forest of fences). Here we can simply pay the difference for the missing crafting materials and be on about our business.

    So like I said, I'm not completely overcome with bile-inducing rage with this the way I was with Easter, so something must be different.
  • efin98
    5856 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    The only thing in common is chance. The way to negate the chance is to have a high volume of bags. They are obtained easy enough that this shouldn't be a factor and if you choose what you craft wisely you can craft all the items in time.

    There is still plenty of time, and unlike other times you actually have the option to just forgo the chance and outright buy the items.
  • annettemarc
    7747 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    drumnman wrote:
    I don't get the overwhelming urge to throw things when I deal with these bags as I did with the eggs. Also, the eggs gave us a chance at a chance to win an item. While there is an element of chance to the bags this year, it's not nearly the Skinner Box-esque mind $!%# that was Easter.

    Additionally, we had no recourse for purchasing sought after items if we didn't score them in our eggs. That left us paying donuts for eggs that MAY contain the prize we want (but you were more likely to end up with a forest of fences). Here we can simply pay the difference for the missing crafting materials and be on about our business.

    So like I said, I'm not completely overcome with bile-inducing rage with this the way I was with Easter, so something must be different.

    Yes, this is the MAIN difference, in my opinion, from the Easter event. In this one, we can come close, and if our luck runs out looking for candy corn but getting those gummi bears instead, then we have the possibility of buying the item for the difference at the very last minute. Just the balance -- not the full-premium-price.

    I wasn't positive that Hugo would stay available after Phase One, and was a few craft items short ... I paid THREE donuts for him. Yesterday evening, I was within a very few rayguns of getting the hovercopter in one of my towns, and running out of time ... the price in donuts would have been 13 donuts. If I couldn't stay up any longer, I could buy the dang thing. 13 donuts is cheap for a decoration of ANY kind.

    That was NOT possible in the Easter event. You were at 100% mercy of the freakin' random boxes within boxes. If they DID offer the alternative of purchasing the item for donuts, it was the entire price of the item -- not just the balance due.

    The worst part of that event was knowing how powerless we were, no matter what we did. We weren't told until the last days that we would be given a chance to buy golden eggs, so throughout the majority of that event, we had no way of believing we could EVER own what we wanted. And the prices of those eggs were disgusting.

    It was all about stress that time. From start to finish. Stress. :(
    USA/UK Race To Throw Country Into Utter Chaos = TOO CLOSE TO CALL
  • jraffa50
    559 posts
    edited October 2014

    It was all about stress that time. From start to finish. Stress. :(

    Does this game really stress people out? I had a terrible, stressful day at work today, and it's still gnawing at me. So I am wondering if people feel the same way about this game, because I don't see it.
  • roshigoth1
    1601 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    Just because something else was worse doesn't make this better. If the best you can say is "it's not as bad as Easter," that says a lot.

    I don't like the randomness aspect, and the gather these to get a chance to get these which you need to make this.

    Honestly, the prizes in Stonecutters weren't amazing - nice, but not amazing. What made that event so great was the actual gameplay aspect - it was straightforward and honest. There was enough challenge to keep you interested, but there wasn't that element of frustration that's always present with the wheels/boxes/prize bags.

    In short - EA is learning, but with the prize bag system they've taken a big step backwards from the last couple events.
  • drumnman
    1475 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    jraffa50 wrote:

    It was all about stress that time. From start to finish. Stress. :(

    Does this game really stress people out? I had a terrible, stressful day at work today, and it's still gnawing at me. So I am wondering if people feel the same way about this game, because I don't see it.

    I think any time you set out to achieve something and cannot due to frustrating circumstances beyond your control it can cause stress. Whether it's a deadline at work, making a green light in traffic, or yes, even playing a game.
  • jraffa50
    559 posts
    edited October 2014
    drumnman wrote:
    jraffa50 wrote:

    It was all about stress that time. From start to finish. Stress. :(

    Does this game really stress people out? I had a terrible, stressful day at work today, and it's still gnawing at me. So I am wondering if people feel the same way about this game, because I don't see it.

    I think any time you set out to achieve something and cannot due to frustrating circumstances beyond your control it can cause stress. Whether it's a deadline at work, making a green light in traffic, or yes, even playing a game.

    I guess, but I generally find this game to be pretty easy and non stressful. I mean when it comes right down to it, this game is just about tapping. So I guess not getting some prizes in it can be frustrating, I don't equate that to being stressful.
  • Zozobras
    608 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    jraffa50 wrote:

    It was all about stress that time. From start to finish. Stress. :(

    Does this game really stress people out? I had a terrible, stressful day at work today, and it's still gnawing at me. So I am wondering if people feel the same way about this game, because I don't see it.

    Of course a game doesn't compare to real life, but I play to relax from it. If the game brings me a simulated rat-race it doesn't achieve its purpose.





    I HATE CRAFTING. CRAFTING? Bah! Humbug!
    tstoforum
  • drumnman
    1475 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    roshigoth1 wrote:
    Just because something else was worse doesn't make this better. If the best you can say is "it's not as bad as Easter," that says a lot.

    I don't like the randomness aspect, and the gather these to get a chance to get these which you need to make this.

    Honestly, the prizes in Stonecutters weren't amazing - nice, but not amazing. What made that event so great was the actual gameplay aspect - it was straightforward and honest. There was enough challenge to keep you interested, but there wasn't that element of frustration that's always present with the wheels/boxes/prize bags.

    In short - EA is learning, but with the prize bag system they've taken a big step backwards from the last couple events.

    I don't think many people are saying "it's just not as bad as Easter." I know I'm not. I'm having a great time with the event and I'm enjoying its pacing and prize system.

    I guess for me, I'm not getting frustrated at all with the bag system for this event. I feel like the prizes are very easily attainable and the mats are spread out (and I've not dropped any donuts to obtain prize items).


    P.S. And I railed heavily on the Easter event. Case in point: http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/10080594.page.
  • Wijsheid
    9653 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    Simply put: no. Who plays regulary will always gather the needed materials.
  • teo47
    944 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    roshigoth1 wrote:
    Just because something else was worse doesn't make this better. If the best you can say is "it's not as bad as Easter," that says a lot.

    I don't like the randomness aspect, and the gather these to get a chance to get these which you need to make this.

    Honestly, the prizes in Stonecutters weren't amazing - nice, but not amazing. What made that event so great was the actual gameplay aspect - it was straightforward and honest. There was enough challenge to keep you interested, but there wasn't that element of frustration that's always present with the wheels/boxes/prize bags.

    In short - EA is learning, but with the prize bag system they've taken a big step backwards from the last couple events.

    But the crafting contents aren't random when you consider them over the month long period of the event. While the contents of each bag are somewhat random, when it comes to the crafting contents over the long term there won't be a ton of variability from player to player if each player opens a similar number of bags of each type.

    The two things that truly have an effect on your accumulation of crafting items are time and premium content. If you have the time to tap those Trick or Treaters every 8/16 hours to get the maximum number of possible bags, you're more likely to get all the prizes. If you have spent more donuts to get more premium children characters (or Witch Marge), you'll get more silver and gold bags and will therefore be more likely to get all the prizes. The randomness of the contents within each bag you open has very very little to do with it - how many bags you get is what is important.

    The Easter event was way different. That was more like if you didn't get the Rigellian Queen by accumulating x number of crafting items, but if you had a 0.1% chance of getting it in each bag and had no way of knowing how many bags it would take before you got lucky. At least here you can calculate whether or not you're on pace to get the prize and adjust your playing strategy as needed. And if you decide to spend donuts, at least you know how many you'll need to spend, not an uncertain number of 'as many as it takes' until you get the prize you want.
    New neighbors always welcome!
  • roshigoth1
    1601 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    drumnman wrote:
    I don't think many people are saying "it's just not as bad as Easter." I know I'm not. I'm having a great time with the event and I'm enjoying its pacing and prize system.

    I guess for me, I'm not getting frustrated at all with the bag system for this event. I feel like the prizes are very easily attainable and the mats are spread out (and I've not dropped any donuts to obtain prize items).

    To be fair, I'm in great shape from this event. I've crafted or won at least one of everything I can so far, and I shouldn't have any difficulty getting the DNA prizes.

    However, I still dislike the random nature of the system they set up. Even if it's an improvement over the wheel, I believe they really ought to give up on the "random chance" concept in designing these events. I don't think it makes it more fun - quite the opposite. And when it really comes down to it, that's the whole point. If I'm not having fun, I'm not going to keep playing and spending donuts.

    Sure, they might get some donuts from people wanting to avoid the frustration - but you can only push that button so long before people just give up. Plus, most of those people would just as likely pay the donuts to avoid a grind in an event without the randomness issue.
  • roshigoth1
    1601 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    teo47 wrote:
    But the crafting contents aren't random when you consider them over the month long period of the event. While the contents of each bag are somewhat random, when it comes to the crafting contents over the long term there won't be a ton of variability from player to player if each player opens a similar number of bags of each type.

    The two things that truly have an effect on your accumulation of crafting items are time and premium content. If you have the time to tap those Trick or Treaters every 8/16 hours to get the maximum number of possible bags, you're more likely to get all the prizes. If you have spent more donuts to get more premium children characters (or Witch Marge), you'll get more silver and gold bags and will therefore be more likely to get all the prizes. The randomness of the contents within each bag you open has very very little to do with it - how many bags you get is what is important.

    The Easter event was way different. That was more like if you didn't get the Rigellian Queen by accumulating x number of crafting items, but if you had a 0.1% chance of getting it in each bag and had no way of knowing how many bags it would take before you got lucky. At least here you can calculate whether or not you're on pace to get the prize and adjust your playing strategy as needed. And if you decide to spend donuts, at least you know how many you'll need to spend, not an uncertain number of 'as many as it takes' until you get the prize you want.

    I think you're missing my point. It's not a question of degree, it's whether it should be included at all. By all means, this is nothing near as bad as Easter. I'm actually enjoying this event.

    I just think it's a step backwards from the improvements they've made since Easter. I'd much rather not see the random chance included in the events. I see no reason for them, and they don't make the event more fun. You do get people feeling much more frustrated this way, even if over the long run it works out.
  • teo47
    944 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    roshigoth1 wrote:
    teo47 wrote:
    But the crafting contents aren't random when you consider them over the month long period of the event. While the contents of each bag are somewhat random, when it comes to the crafting contents over the long term there won't be a ton of variability from player to player if each player opens a similar number of bags of each type.

    The two things that truly have an effect on your accumulation of crafting items are time and premium content. If you have the time to tap those Trick or Treaters every 8/16 hours to get the maximum number of possible bags, you're more likely to get all the prizes. If you have spent more donuts to get more premium children characters (or Witch Marge), you'll get more silver and gold bags and will therefore be more likely to get all the prizes. The randomness of the contents within each bag you open has very very little to do with it - how many bags you get is what is important.

    The Easter event was way different. That was more like if you didn't get the Rigellian Queen by accumulating x number of crafting items, but if you had a 0.1% chance of getting it in each bag and had no way of knowing how many bags it would take before you got lucky. At least here you can calculate whether or not you're on pace to get the prize and adjust your playing strategy as needed. And if you decide to spend donuts, at least you know how many you'll need to spend, not an uncertain number of 'as many as it takes' until you get the prize you want.

    I think you're missing my point. It's not a question of degree, it's whether it should be included at all. By all means, this is nothing near as bad as Easter. I'm actually enjoying this event.

    I just think it's a step backwards from the improvements they've made since Easter. I'd much rather not see the random chance included in the events. I see no reason for them, and they don't make the event more fun. You do get people feeling much more frustrated this way, even if over the long run it works out.

    My point is that while there is an illusion of random chance added to the event through the treat bags, it isn't really random at all. What you get has everything to do with how many bags you accumulate and nothing to do with the contents of what is in each specific bag.

    What is random is the UFO prizes, specifically the 30 donut prize that is by far the most desirable one available. But that doesn't affect anyone's chance to get all of the prizes unless they want to use their 30 donuts in order to help buy the prizes.
    New neighbors always welcome!
  • roshigoth1
    1601 posts Member
    edited October 2014
    teo47 wrote:
    My point is that while there is an illusion of random chance added to the event through the treat bags, it isn't really random at all. What you get has everything to do with how many bags you accumulate and nothing to do with the contents of what is in each specific bag.

    What is random is the UFO prizes, specifically the 30 donut prize that is by far the most desirable one available. But that doesn't affect anyone's chance to get all of the prizes unless they want to use their 30 donuts in order to help buy the prizes.

    But it's not an illusion. It really is random chance, just watered down. There's a finite number of bags you can accumulate predictably. There's a random chance of getting more from tapping, but that's basically luck. In addition, you have random chance determining which type of bag you get.

    Then, in each bag, you have 2 guaranteed materials, and several random drops. The crafting prizes require certain materials, some of which drop with much less frequency. This creates a bottleneck. Some of us might get lucky and get more chocolate bars and/or pumpkins than others, and we have little trouble crafting what we want. Others... not so much.

    If you're unlucky, you can easily end up with far fewer gold bags, and from those get the minimum of the materials you need. Ultimately, you could end up needing 2-3 times as many bags (or more) to get what you need. Yes, statistically is should work out, but probability isn't a guarantee. When you introduce that random chance, you create the possibility of really alienating some of the players.

    Sure, they could pay donuts, but when someone else is doing the exact same you're doing and is just luckier, it's a lot more frustrating.

    I also fail to see why this system is preferable to, say, a set payout of materials for each sort of bag, with the sort of bag available being tied to either a trade-in system or better payouts for longer tasks (like 4 hrs for bronze, 6 for silver, 8 for gold). Hence my main point: why have the random chance at all?
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