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The unfair AI is not fun to play against at all.

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  • KnocksYOUoutCold
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    SkynetUFC wrote: »
    @SkynetUFC How are the A.I. able to also block all incoming strikes while rocked simply by holding high block and walking backwards? Even mixing up strikes has no effect, as they block everythy with no damage bleeding through their guard.

    I'd say that they're not doing anything you yourself can't do if you were put in the same situation. Again, this is the game logic running and not the AI doing anything special. They're just holding r2 and walking backwards.

    Perhaps they are using better block breaking tactics/combos than you are, and are therefore having an easier time getting through your block when you're the one who's rocked? You can see the block breakdown meter in the light blue color with health etc. Their block takes damage same as yours when hit.

    @SkynetUFC As it stands now, the A.I. guard would seem to be impenetrable while they are rocked. I throw: combos, upper cuts, and head kicks, all to no avail as the majority of the time no knockdown or KO occurs. I'm not sure what was changed from the beta to the official release concerning the A.I. block mechanic, but it's clear by everyone's complaints that the A.I. ability to block all incoming strikes while rocked needs to be addressed.
  • They block everything even when not rocked....they also don't lose stamina as fast as human players espeacially when grappling.
  • KnocksYOUoutCold
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    They block everything even when not rocked....they also don't lose stamina as fast as human players espeacially when grappling.

    @SkynetUFC This again is a major A.I. issue that needs to be addressed, I've had matches where the A.I. threw strikes from bell to bell and lost almost no stamina(even spinning strikes) which if you believe the daily coin videos is supposed to drain even more stamina.
  • @SkynetUFC there are a ton a posts including some from me about the fixes that need to happen to the AI but according to you all us fans are wrong and just dont understand the game.....yeah that's why UFC 3 is getting terrible user reviews and scores and tons of posts on these forums complain about the OP AI but WE fans are the ones wrong it cant be EA's fault apparently.

    I just spoke with @SkynetUFC a few hours ago, about the changes that need to made to the A.I., so hopefully they will relay those complaints to the team. Check the "So ya'll gonna fix the A.I. thread" and feel free to chime in.

    He posted on my thread saying that people just blame the AI instead of there lack of skills....he is pretty much saying we are wrong and that there is nothing wrong with the AI....wich is false.

    If the A.I. were perfect we would not be vocally complaining about them. One thing is certain: with all of the MANY complaints regarding the A.I. they need to be addressed period.
  • KnocksYOUoutCold
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    SkynetUFC wrote: »
    The AI's health pool is just as large as yours (well it's based on the stats, so possibly even lower), and their defense is no stronger than a players.

    If the AI is always moving backwards, that means they're an easy target for jamming against the cage. If they always run away, then pin them into a corner and start working them. Their block will break down just as fast as a player's would.

    There is no such thing as an AI health pool modifier, it's simply the health that fighter has, and the AI is controlling them.

    @SkynetUFC If that's really the case, then how is it that other players have stated getting 8 to 10 rocks or knockdowns in a match before a Knockout occurred? When was the last time you saw any fighter get knocked down that many times in real life and still get back up? The amount of damage needed to trigger a knockdown or KO is too much. I should never have to rock or drop an A I. that many times before getting a Knockout.
    Post edited by KnocksYOUoutCold on
  • lung4444
    315 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    @SkynetUFC this is what is wrong with the AI
    AI doesn't hug block, because if it did you would have a GA, yet those hands are up the second you throw a strike. It has way more time to react compared to a human player
    It can combo faster because it doesn't physically have to move into position to press buttons
    Instant denials, you can't fake, it denies both. You're not getting out of mount bottom until it postures up and you block three strikes because EVERYTHING ELSE gets denied
    The 75% way there denial, especially in clinch
    Instant recovery from health events
    Ability to throw 7 strikes in a row and not get gassed
    Unstoppable grappling and subs when it wants to
    You can't hit it because of an invisible wall, then you can't get away because they're glued to you
    This why the community thinks the AI is too difficult to counter

    Removed profanity by @EA_Roger
  • EA_Roger
    1483 posts EA Community Manager
    edited February 2018
    I've removed some of the comments from this thread given their tone & I've merged two threads on the AI together.

    It is a rarity that developers have the time to come to try and answer your concerns, when they do the least you can do is be constructive and mindful of our forum rules .

    For instance spamming and bumping threads over & over is one of those rules.

    If you ask a question be as accurate as possible, for instance in this case we are discussing AI and no one as mentioned what difficulty they are fight on. If everyone is on Legendary, then yes you are going to have a rough time.

    Thanks,

    Roger.
  • Wickedness181
    15 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    If we weren't being told that we were just making stuff up about the AI and that we are just bad at the game we wouldn't have a "tone"
  • SkynetUFC
    257 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    I don't think anyone here is lying or making anything up. I think they just don't understand fully what's going on, which is entirely reasonable and even expected.

    However, the fact of the matter remains that what you are saying is the case, is simply not the case (in regards to some of these issues).

    One thing that seems the be perhaps causing confusion is that people are comparing the AI health, blocking, etc. to real life. While that's not a bad thing to do, this is still a game, and to make a competitive AI (especially on higher difficulties) the AI has to play the game. A high level AI in the game should be emulating what high level players are capable of, because that's where the greater degrees of challenge can come from. This means that they should absolutely be holding block when rocked, and trying to create space. Any intelligent user would do the same if they were rocked, as I'm sure you do. Their ability to hold the block button is no different than yours.

    The AI's ability to maintain stamina on their feet and on the ground is nothing other than a byproduct of their fighting style. If you're constantly getting gassed, or constantly getting denied, then it means you're being wasteful with your striking and transitions. The AI will deny 100% of your transitions if you spam them, or try them while at a notable stamina disadvantage. You need to slow down and recover, and get some denials of your own to get back into fighting shape. This is also quite reasonable behavior as far as I'm concerned. If you're playing against a grapple-centric AI on higher difficulties, then you'll have to create an advantage for yourself before attempting transitions or subs. Simply having neutral stamina/grapple advantage is not sufficient for the highest levels of grapple AI (Maia on pro/legendary for example).

    On the feet, the AI far more often than not recovers its stamina before throwing more strikes. The lower your current stamina is when you throw a strike, the more permanent stamina you lose. Especially when those strikes are not part of a proper combo. There are a lot of small nuances and mechanics that the AI is aware of or respecting in its fighting style that you might simply not know or see, and that is making the difference for them. Given time and practice, anyone would get good enough to crush the AI, but few people will be able to just walk through them every fight from the get go.

    As to the AI's ability in Solo Challenges/UT to take damage, there are a few things going on here. Firstly, the difficulty in lower ranks of UT is quite low, which means the AI is less aggressive. This means they throw less strikes, keep higher stamina, and don't get countered as often. It is also very relevant that in lower rank and even mid-tier UT your stats are fairly low. Punching power has yet to reach the levels of roster fighters that you're likely otherwise use to using or fighting with/against. These things all come together to make the AI more difficult to finish.

    Edit: We're aware that this pattern is not necessarily the most enjoyable experience, and are in fact working to improve it. My point is simply that they are not cheating in any way, and are not doing anything that you yourself couldn't do.
    Post edited by SkynetUFC on
  • lung4444 wrote: »
    @SkynetUFC this is what is wrong with the AI
    AI doesn't hug block, because if it did you would have a GA, yet those hands are up the second you throw a strike. It has way more time to react compared to a human player

    While it's true that the AI doesn't hug block the way humans do before strikes are thrown, they have no more time to react that players, and during combos their block does in fact stay up until they decide to react or defend in a different way. There are identical frame count window which exist for both parties, and the AI's defense must fall into that the same as a users must. If a clean or heavy strike does get through, then fighters are actually stunned momentarily and their defenses can't come up, which delays the inputs. Sometimes this delay is so large that defenses can't come up at all, which is when you get a free strike. The AI is just as susceptible to this.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    It can combo faster because it doesn't physically have to move into position to press buttons

    There is plenty of time for a user to enter any of the combos which exist in the game, with even a little practice. This is no advantage, though it is true that they don't have to move their fingers.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    Instant denials, you can't fake, it denies both. You're not getting out of mount bottom until it postures up and you block three strikes because EVERYTHING ELSE gets denied

    You can 100% use proper fakes on the AI on the ground. Knowing which transitions are fast enough to be viable fakes, however, takes a lot of time and practice. Transitions on the ground have four phases: start, cancel, finish, and denial. To properly land a fake, the opponent must enter their denial input when your transition is in the cancel portion; if they enter the denial during the start portion (even if you've already let go of the trans input) then you get denied. Many transitions have longer start phases than you might be thinking, and trying to fake with this will actually harm your ground game, since they'll get denied.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    Instant recovery from health events

    ...what? No.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    Ability to throw 7 strikes in a row and not get gassed

    Again, there are rules governing how stamina is lost that you might not be fully aware of. Your current stamina when the strike is thrown greatly influences how much current/max stamina that strike will cost. If you're throwing a proper combo, then the stamina you had at the start of the combo is actually used as the reference, costing you less comparatively. Also, smaller strikes like jabs and crosses have a stamina floor, wherein you will stop losing current stamina below a certain threshold. I don't recall the exact value, but as an example if you have less than 50% current stamina and throw a jab, you won't lose any more current stamina (only max), in fact, your stamina will continue to regen if below this threshold and throwing such strikes.

    Whiffing on strikes also costs significantly more stamina than landed or even blocked strikes. Using the post-fight stats to try and gauge this can be misleading, because blocked strikes don't count as landing in the stats. So seeing 60/100 strikes doesn't mean that 40 missed. Just that 40 didn't count as landing clean enough, one way or the other. So it's quite possible that you're blocking the AI's strikes, while yours are in fact whiffing more.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    Unstoppable grappling and subs when it wants to

    The AI subs on pro/legendary are 100% totally not cool right now, you are right. They have been tuned back significantly in an upcoming patch. Subs is actually the only part of the AI that I didn't own/work on, and when I looked at it, the math seemed to be that legendary AI had 4x the average reaction speed...which was nuts. Even Legendary AI couldn't escape from another AI's submission.
    lung4444 wrote: »
    You can't hit it because of an invisible wall, then you can't get away because they're glued to you
    This why the community thinks the AI is too difficult to counter

    Hmmm. Not quite sure what you mean about an invisible wall. The backend of the game relies heavily on range management and prediction. If the game thinks you're in range to land a strike, and will be by the time it is supposed to connect, then it will make it do so. Many games take the opposite approach of simply throwing it and seeing what happens, we've tried a different approach which is more reliable for users once they've played the game a lot. Getting an instinctive understanding of what will and won't be in range, and knowing that the game will make the strike connect unless the opponent defends it.

    On the low difficulties, the AI's internal range metrics are intentionally skewed to think it's closer than it is, ie: it will throw strikes and miss, thinking they would land. On higher level AI's it's the opposite; they are forced to throw strikes that they are certain are within range, and only miss when the opponent is moving in and out of range, messing with the AI's predictions (as fighters do irl).
  • EA_Roger wrote: »
    I've removed some of the comments from this thread given their tone & I've merged two threads on the AI together.

    It is a rarity that developers have the time to come to try and answer your concerns, when they do the least you can do is be constructive and mindful of our forum rules .

    For instance spamming and bumping threads over & over is one of those rules.

    If you ask a question be as accurate as possible, for instance in this case we are discussing AI and no one as mentioned what difficulty they are fight on. If everyone is on Legendary, then yes you are going to have a rough time.

    Thanks,

    Roger.

    @EA_Roger I personally am speaking to the difficulty of the A.I. in Ultimate Team, they are far too efficient at the game o be fun to fight against. I've listed the issues I and many others have voiced complaints about, and the changes needed in the thread "So ya'll gonna fix the A.I.?" Feel free to take a look and get give me your feedback.
  • KnocksYOUoutCold
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    @SkynetUFC As I've told @EA_Roger, my complaints are in regards to A.I. in Single Player Ultimate Team. As it stands, the A.I. are far too efficient in the tendencies you've listed. This in turn has lead to the A.I. feeling overpowered and not fun to fight against. To give further context to my complaints, and the complaints of others; I was the #1 player in Ultimate Team on my console during the beta, with over 500 wins and around 80 loses I found the difficulty of the A.I. more than manageable. I'm now in division 5 on the official release and I can hardly get a win because of how overly efficient the A.I. are in all aspects of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm not sure what was changed from the beta to the official release concerning the A.I. but it's clear by everyone's complaints that the A.I.
    abilities and tendencies need to be nerfed. I'm not saying I want to walk through every opponent with ease, but changes need to be made.
  • Well hopefully all the changes that have gone into the patches so far make that difference for you, once they go live, and continue to improve the experience going forward.
  • KnocksYOUoutCold
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    SkynetUFC wrote: »
    Well hopefully all the changes that have gone into the patches so far make that difference for you, once they go live, and continue to improve the experience going forward.

    @SkynetUFC Thanks for taking the time to listen. While I have your attention, maybe you could answer a question for me? Why does my pre-order Connor McGregor have worse stats than the fight now version? I paid $85 to fight with: 95 STRK, 86GRAPL, 88STAM, and 95HLTH Connor not a cheap "skin" with worse stats. If you're not sure, could you ask around? Thanks.
  • @SkynetUFC any word on when we can expect those updates?
  • SkynetUFC wrote: »
    On the feet, the AI far more often than not recovers its stamina before throwing more strikes. The lower your current stamina is when you throw a strike, the more permanent stamina you lose. Especially when those strikes are not part of a proper combo.

    A proper combo? Are you developers literally insane?!?! Who are you guys to say what is and isn’t a proper combo? So it’s flat out use your speed and power boosting, stamina conserving predetermined combos or suffer the consequences? I can’t wrap my head around this completely illogical “one right way to play our game” approach, do you realize what type of game you are making??!? GET RID OF THESE PREDETERMINED COMBOS!!!!!!!!!

  • Did anyone ask for predertimed combos to be added to a simulation sports fighting game before? WHO ASKED FOR THIS??!? You guys have completely lost touch with what separates these games from the sea of arcade fighters like Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, Dead or Alive I mean come on! Get rid of this crap and fix your frickin AI!!!
  • We want a simulation fighter that represents a real life sport yet some out of touch, no idea what they are doing crazy person has the audacity to base the entire stand up game around....... arcade style combos? INSANITY!!!!!!!!
  • There are varying levels of combos in the game, with varying effects on the speed, cost, and power they have. Believe it or not, fighters do in fact practice certain combos throughout their careers and get particularly good at some over others, having them ingrained into their muscle memory.

    That is not to say that you can't throw strikes in combination that aren't hard combos. Soft combos exist in the game, and still have benefits. You can't start chaining overhands together back to back and expect reasonable results, but you can certainly throw alternating basic strikes. There's also a benefit to entering proper combo-able strikes quickly, as they will chain off of each other, and the fighter's body will go through less, and more efficient motion to get the same result, effectively consuming less stamina. This is very straightforward logic.

    Throwing a 1-2 combo is both faster and more conservative than throwing a 1, pulling it back, then throwing a 2 after.

    There's also hundreds of hard combos in the game, of which none are unreasonably long unlike the crazy user-designed combos from UFC 2. These aren't street fighter-esque 24 hit combos, of which each fighter only has 10 options.
  • SkynetUFC
    257 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    @SkynetUFC any word on when we can expect those updates?

    Alas, I cannot say. Work on the first patch has long since ended, however, and it is simply waiting on certification and testing before it is released into the wild. When that is actually done, is anyone's guess. If nothing is found it will come out sooner, if problems arise then they have to be fixed and put back into certification.

    This is why we never say anything until 1-2 days before, because until then we honestly don't know, and don't want to give false information.
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