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Another 10 years with EA UFC

I’ll never be able to play with a top 15 complete roster in a ufc game 😔 now

Replies

  • YouPapi3o6
    65 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Well it’s good to know that because I won’t be buying the next EA sports ufc I feel a lot of people are thinking the same as well.
  • YouPapi3o6 wrote: »
    Well it’s good to know that because I won’t be buying the next EA sports ufc I feel a lot of people are thinking the same as well.

    Foreal especially when they have the resources to make the most amazing mma experience but they choose to cater the main stream crowd

  • I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.
  • YouPapi3o6
    65 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.

    Believe me when I say this. I’ve uploaded countless videos of flaws and issues within the game and I have been banned multiple times for stating my opinion. It just seems like they don’t care.
  • BWrizzle
    80 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    YouPapi3o6 wrote: »
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.

    Believe me when I say this. I’ve uploaded countless videos of flaws and issues within the game and I have been banned multiple times for stating my opinion. It just seems like they don’t care.

    I understand man. I guess my thinking behind it is just say thanks for the stuff they did right and are improving on with patches and FREE content(whether we like the content or not), and respectfully make suggestions on ways to improve. Somebody 💩ing on your work that doesn’t have any authority over it/you probably won’t inspire you to do better. I liked the other 3 UFC games a lot. 3 out of 4 good ones isn’t bad IMO. I feel they missed with this one but like I said it seems like it’s getting better with the patches. I do hope they continue to make all fighters free that are being added at least for a limited time. They added a lot in UFC 3.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4769 posts EA Community Manager
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    YouPapi3o6 wrote: »
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.

    Believe me when I say this. I’ve uploaded countless videos of flaws and issues within the game and I have been banned multiple times for stating my opinion. It just seems like they don’t care.

    I understand man. I guess my thinking behind it is just say thanks for the stuff they did right and are improving on with patches and FREE content(whether we like the content or not), and respectfully make suggestions on ways to improve. Somebody 💩ing on your work that doesn’t have any authority over it/you probably won’t inspire you to do better. I liked the other 3 UFC games a lot. 3 out of 4 good ones isn’t bad IMO. I feel they missed with this one but like I said it seems like it’s getting better with the patches. I do hope they continue to make all fighters free that are being added at least for a limited time. They added a lot in UFC 3.

    Thank you for your support. We're here to listen to the community and pass along everyone's thoughts. It's always unfortunate to me to jump into the forums every day to see players state they won't buy any future games or plan to uninstall UFC 4, I'd love to see the opposite, but know that the game is not appealing to some members of the UFC community. All we ask is to be constructive on what you want changed and added to the game. The more detailed information like this the better in the long run. I can't really send a thread to the devs where people discuss they are uninstalling the game. They're going to come back and ask me, "why are they uninstalling and what should we consider for updates?" That's the details we need.
  • BWrizzle wrote: »
    YouPapi3o6 wrote: »
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.

    Believe me when I say this. I’ve uploaded countless videos of flaws and issues within the game and I have been banned multiple times for stating my opinion. It just seems like they don’t care.

    I understand man. I guess my thinking behind it is just say thanks for the stuff they did right and are improving on with patches and FREE content(whether we like the content or not), and respectfully make suggestions on ways to improve. Somebody 💩ing on your work that doesn’t have any authority over it/you probably won’t inspire you to do better. I liked the other 3 UFC games a lot. 3 out of 4 good ones isn’t bad IMO. I feel they missed with this one but like I said it seems like it’s getting better with the patches. I do hope they continue to make all fighters free that are being added at least for a limited time. They added a lot in UFC 3.

    Thank you for your support. We're here to listen to the community and pass along everyone's thoughts. It's always unfortunate to me to jump into the forums every day to see players state they won't buy any future games or plan to uninstall UFC 4, I'd love to see the opposite, but know that the game is not appealing to some members of the UFC community. All we ask is to be constructive on what you want changed and added to the game. The more detailed information like this the better in the long run. I can't really send a thread to the devs where people discuss they are uninstalling the game. They're going to come back and ask me, "why are they uninstalling and what should we consider for updates?" That's the details we need.


    The answers for the solution of this game and how to fix it is on here everyday .

    -CLINCH DENIAL

    -GnP timer gone , hammer fist elbows GnP

    -Stamina tax

    -ACTUAL ROSTERED FIGHTERS TOP 15 all weight class

  • @Marc110_98 put me on to using the push(RT+X+A or R2+◾️+X) to deny the clinch attempt. It seems to work pretty good. It does use a little stamina though similar to sway. I 100% agree with your line about GNP timer and elbows/hammerfists.
  • BWrizzle
    80 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @EA_Blueberry I think the wrong version of Jared Cannonier may have been updated recently but I’m not sure. With the latest stat changes DC said their would be increases to Cannonier’s Recovery, Kick Speed, and Switch Stance. On the fighter select screen “Top Fighter” view the MW Cannonier stayed at the bottom of the roster at #14 but on LHW he’s now at #5 ahead of Rumble #8 and Reyes #11 who has a win over him. I don’t think he was that high on LHW before the recent stat update. I guess possibly both were updated and that’s just where he landed stat wise compared to other top 15.
  • TheRealLastMonk
    47 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @EA_Blueberry

    well you have a great deal of succinct, specific, explicit and constructive suggestions/requests for UFC 4 given in the thread entitled:

    Offline player’s suggestion thread.

    These suggestions are specific , constructive and detailed enough for you to take to the DEVs. So we shall see.

    @BWrizzle

    Hey dude we the players have already shown support and said thank you to EA by spending $60 +
    dollars on UFC 4 plus whatever micro-transaction money we've already spent. I agree the updates and patches that the DEVS have pushed out for UFC 4 are awesome and make the game much much better than it was on launch day. The game is literally a 200% better game. Given that this is the 4th game in the series I expect no less.

    The problem is the game we have now is the game that we should have initially received for our $60+ dollars. Specifically the game as of patch 4.02 should have been what was shipped on Aug 14 2020. If you include EA's MMA game, EA has had over a decade in experience of developing MMA games, and understanding what offline MMA players want and what online MMA players want. So at this point they have the expertise and know exactly what the players want in a UFC game.

    But let's give EA and the DEVs a major pass. We were right in the middle of a pandemic when the game shipped in August 2020. And that fact dramatically changed a lot. So it might be the case that EA wanted to ship a better more complete game but just could not. We are still in the middle of a pandemic which may still be hampering EA and the DEVS ability to give the community the changes it is asking for. No need to play cat-n-mouse EA knows exactly what we want. :D

    @BWrizzle So for now I'm willing to give EA a break. But I have no obligation whatsoever to say thank you to EA or the DEVS because I've already done so by giving them my $60+ dollars, and access to my data which they mine every time I launch the game and am forced to log into their servers to get my profile info. I supported EA by purchasing UFC1, UFC2, UFC3, and now UFC 4. So considering the quality of these games vs the money that I spent I feel they owe me.

    I'm an offline only player, I and others have submitted constructive comments, and requests to EA and the DEVS in the thread named

    Offline player’s suggestion thread


    So we will wait and see just how responsive EA and the DEVS are to positive, reasonable, and constructive requests, and comments.

    EA's response to that thread will have a major impact on my continued customer loyalty.
  • @EA_Blueberry

    well you have a great deal of succinct, specific, explicit and constructive suggestions/requests for UFC 4 given in the thread entitled:

    Offline player’s suggestion thread.

    These suggestions are specific , constructive and detailed enough for you to take to the DEVs. So we shall see.

    @BWrizzle

    Hey dude we the players have already shown support and said thank you to EA by spending $60 +
    dollars on UFC 4 plus whatever micro-transaction money we've already spent. I agree the updates and patches that the DEVS have pushed out for UFC 4 are awesome and make the game much much better than it was on launch day. The game is literally a 200% better game. Given that this is the 4th game in the series I expect no less.

    The problem is the game we have now is the game that we should have initially received for our $60+ dollars. Specifically the game as of patch 4.02 should have been what was shipped on Aug 14 2020. If you include EA's MMA game, EA has had over a decade in experience of developing MMA games, and understanding what offline MMA players want and what online MMA players want. So at this point they have the expertise and know exactly what the players want in a UFC game.

    But let's give EA and the DEVs a major pass. We were right in the middle of a pandemic when the game shipped in August 2020. And that fact dramatically changed a lot. So it might be the case that EA wanted to ship a better more complete game but just could not. We are still in the middle of a pandemic which may still be hampering EA and the DEVS ability to give the community the changes it is asking for. No need to play cat-n-mouse EA knows exactly what we want. :D

    @BWrizzle So for now I'm willing to give EA a break. But I have no obligation whatsoever to say thank you to EA or the DEVS because I've already done so by giving them my $60+ dollars, and access to my data which they mine every time I launch the game and am forced to log into their servers to get my profile info. I supported EA by purchasing UFC1, UFC2, UFC3, and now UFC 4. So considering the quality of these games vs the money that I spent I feel they owe me.

    I'm an offline only player, I and others have submitted constructive comments, and requests to EA and the DEVS in the thread named

    Offline player’s suggestion thread


    So we will wait and see just how responsive EA and the DEVS are to positive, reasonable, and constructive requests, and comments.

    EA's response to that thread will have a major impact on my continued customer loyalty.

    Same,but I do think they are doing stuff for the better every update like you said.
  • BWrizzle
    80 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @EA_Blueberry

    well you have a great deal of succinct, specific, explicit and constructive suggestions/requests for UFC 4 given in the thread entitled:

    Offline player’s suggestion thread.

    These suggestions are specific , constructive and detailed enough for you to take to the DEVs. So we shall see.

    @BWrizzle

    Hey dude we the players have already shown support and said thank you to EA by spending $60 +
    dollars on UFC 4 plus whatever micro-transaction money we've already spent. I agree the updates and patches that the DEVS have pushed out for UFC 4 are awesome and make the game much much better than it was on launch day. The game is literally a 200% better game. Given that this is the 4th game in the series I expect no less.

    The problem is the game we have now is the game that we should have initially received for our $60+ dollars. Specifically the game as of patch 4.02 should have been what was shipped on Aug 14 2020. If you include EA's MMA game, EA has had over a decade in experience of developing MMA games, and understanding what offline MMA players want and what online MMA players want. So at this point they have the expertise and know exactly what the players want in a UFC game.

    But let's give EA and the DEVs a major pass. We were right in the middle of a pandemic when the game shipped in August 2020. And that fact dramatically changed a lot. So it might be the case that EA wanted to ship a better more complete game but just could not. We are still in the middle of a pandemic which may still be hampering EA and the DEVS ability to give the community the changes it is asking for. No need to play cat-n-mouse EA knows exactly what we want. :D

    @BWrizzle So for now I'm willing to give EA a break. But I have no obligation whatsoever to say thank you to EA or the DEVS because I've already done so by giving them my $60+ dollars, and access to my data which they mine every time I launch the game and am forced to log into their servers to get my profile info. I supported EA by purchasing UFC1, UFC2, UFC3, and now UFC 4. So considering the quality of these games vs the money that I spent I feel they owe me.

    I'm an offline only player, I and others have submitted constructive comments, and requests to EA and the DEVS in the thread named

    Offline player’s suggestion thread


    So we will wait and see just how responsive EA and the DEVS are to positive, reasonable, and constructive requests, and comments.

    EA's response to that thread will have a major impact on my continued customer loyalty.

    I agree with you about pandemic but they owe us nothing. The $60 was a mutual transaction, you give them money they give you video game. Hours of enjoyment for the price of a decent meal out for 2-3 people. I’ve never spent a dime on UFC micro transactions, they’ve always provided plenty of free content for their UFC games. I agree with the feeling that the game should be in a better place for their 4th installment but it’s not. Thankfully it’s getting better though. They can’t all be home runs. I thought the other 3 were good with the 3rd being the best.
  • TheRealLastMonk
    47 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    @BWrizzle

    We're almost on the same page, but I think we may disagree on what $60 is worth.

    1) I have no idea what the price of a decent meal out (whatever decent means ) is I don't do the 2-3 people at dinner thing. I do know I just purchased a Sony combined mp3, CD, and bluetooth player for $45 that will give me years of enjoyment and entertainment. I just purchased a Raspberry Pi 3b for $35 that is a major component of an augmented reality game that will give me many years of entertainment and enjoyment. Last month I purchased from Amazon 2 Arduino microcontrollers ($25 each) for my robot that will give me years of enjoyment and entertainment. So typically when I spend $60 on entertainment...........


    2) There is some history behind my $60 purchase of UFC IV. It was based on hope for receiving unfulfilled promises made for UFC 3, and my purchase of UFC3 was based on receiving unfulfilled promises made for UFC 2. You get the picture. Each time the $60 or so dollars was given as an investment for a partially developed game framework with a hope for a completed product later down the road. Well, I keep spending the money so what I'm getting for my $60 or so dollars must be more or less worth it right? I keep spending :) Well, Kind-a-from-a-getting-strung-along-point-of-view.

    But is my purchase a fair mutual transaction? I give up my $60 or so dollars and EA sells me a UFC game framework. But wait a minute how much is my PSN data worth that EA data mines every time I start UFC 4 and need to check my fighter's profile and am forced to connect to EA servers, even though I only play offline? I dunno, I hear in these days of machine learning and data mining that user data is worth a lot more than $60 or so dollars ;) At least that's the indication I'm getting from Google, Facebook, Youtube, Cambridge Analytics etc :* So is it really just $60 in exchange for the UFC 4, or Is EA really getting my $60 or so dollars and unlimited PSN data mining in exchange for the game? Should I really include the value of my PSN data with that $60? So should the game give me my money's worth and my PSN's data worth :D

    Also I run many local (offline tournaments) featuring the UFC games, which give the players fun(who can put a price on fun) , but my tournaments also expose EA's UFC to many many customers who don't play online, and might not have even purchased the game or been interested, or had ever heard about the gamet had it not been for my tournaments. B) Of course EA never asked me to promote their UFC series to hundreds of new potential customers, but I do in fact do it anyway :)

    So if one stretches one imagination a little, they could see that I gave ( 4 * $60) or so dollars + years of my PSN data mining, + roughly 8 years of totally free marketing and advertising of EA's UFC series to EA. Also on this very forum I've given EA's UFC DEVs game improvement/development ideas and suggestions that if I were to bill them as a software game consultant would be worth ........ well, since EA never expressly asked me for my 2 cent as a software game consultant I won't venture to put a price on the thousands of dollars of free consultation I've provided on this forum LOL :D

    I do agree. UFC 2 was better in some respects than UFC 1. But there were features taken out of UFC 1 that I liked. So it was a wash. UFC 3 was better in some respects than UFC 2 e.g I really liked the addition of tournament mode in UFC 3, but they took out rag doll physics from UFC 2, so UFC 3 was a wash. UFC 4 is better than UFC 3 in some respects, I love the new arenas, and submission changes, the clinch and even the Archetype system in UFC 4, but they took away the ability to customized move sets for your CAFs by the Archetype system that I basically like so again UFC 4 is hmmm..... a wash. I get just barely, kind-a, squeek-past, right-up-to $60 worth of a game. With each installment, its so close, I give up $$$$ in value, and I get a game that's always on the verge of being worth $60

    hmmm.......

    You're right technically EA doesn't owe me a damn thing. :p I willfully spent my money on each installment of EA's UFC. Nothing forces me to buy the game except my own naivete. On the other hand I happen to know what my data is worth, and what the marketing and advertising of the UFC series that I do which benefits EA is worth and I'm willing to bet that EA knows what its worth too ;) So in that respect it may not be an obligatory debt on EA's part, but there is definitely a symbiotic debt present. And without a good dose of customers like me, there won't be an EA o:)

    I do think this is the last installment of UFC that I buy on faith. If EA doesn't complete the offline and single player experience this time, I won't be doing a UFC 5 and I have a few measly followers on Twitch that would be interested in that fact. >:)
  • BWrizzle wrote: »
    YouPapi3o6 wrote: »
    BWrizzle wrote: »
    I feel this game has gotten better with the patches and feels more competitive now. Maybe with the response they’re getting from this one they’ll do better with the next. Just try to provide some good suggestions on how to change things. It may do more to change things than you just saying you’re not buying the next game.

    Believe me when I say this. I’ve uploaded countless videos of flaws and issues within the game and I have been banned multiple times for stating my opinion. It just seems like they don’t care.

    I understand man. I guess my thinking behind it is just say thanks for the stuff they did right and are improving on with patches and FREE content(whether we like the content or not), and respectfully make suggestions on ways to improve. Somebody 💩ing on your work that doesn’t have any authority over it/you probably won’t inspire you to do better. I liked the other 3 UFC games a lot. 3 out of 4 good ones isn’t bad IMO. I feel they missed with this one but like I said it seems like it’s getting better with the patches. I do hope they continue to make all fighters free that are being added at least for a limited time. They added a lot in UFC 3.

    Thank you for your support. We're here to listen to the community and pass along everyone's thoughts. It's always unfortunate to me to jump into the forums every day to see players state they won't buy any future games or plan to uninstall UFC 4, I'd love to see the opposite, but know that the game is not appealing to some members of the UFC community. All we ask is to be constructive on what you want changed and added to the game. The more detailed information like this the better in the long run. I can't really send a thread to the devs where people discuss they are uninstalling the game. They're going to come back and ask me, "why are they uninstalling and what should we consider for updates?" That's the details we need.

    We’ve given plenty of details there’s an outpouring of evidence with videos and pictures. Also a lot of requests by people asking for a clinch denial, Transitions in postured up position, Stamina adjustments are just a few things to name. We still haven’t received any of these things. It’s gotten to the point where a lot of customers feel ignored by EA.
  • @BWrizzle

    We're almost on the same page, but I think we may disagree on what $60 is worth.

    1) I have no idea what the price of a decent meal out (whatever decent means ) is I don't do the 2-3 people at dinner thing. I do know I just purchased a Sony combined mp3, CD, and bluetooth player for $45 that will give me years of enjoyment and entertainment. I just purchased a Raspberry Pi 3b for $35 that is a major component of an augmented reality game that will give me many years of entertainment and enjoyment. Last month I purchased from Amazon 2 Arduino microcontrollers ($25 each) for my robot that will give me years of enjoyment and entertainment. So typically when I spend $60 on entertainment...........


    2) There is some history behind my $60 purchase of UFC IV. It was based on hope for receiving unfulfilled promises made for UFC 3, and my purchase of UFC3 was based on receiving unfulfilled promises made for UFC 2. You get the picture. Each time the $60 or so dollars was given as an investment for a partially developed game framework with a hope for a completed product later down the road. Well, I keep spending the money so what I'm getting for my $60 or so dollars must be more or less worth it right? I keep spending :) Well, Kind-a-from-a-getting-strung-along-point-of-view.

    But is my purchase a fair mutual transaction? I give up my $60 or so dollars and EA sells me a UFC game framework. But wait a minute how much is my PSN data worth that EA data mines every time I start UFC 4 and need to check my fighter's profile and am forced to connect to EA servers, even though I only play offline? I dunno, I hear in these days of machine learning and data mining that user data is worth a lot more than $60 or so dollars ;) At least that's the indication I'm getting from Google, Facebook, Youtube, Cambridge Analytics etc :* So is it really just $60 in exchange for the UFC 4, or Is EA really getting my $60 or so dollars and unlimited PSN data mining in exchange for the game? Should I really include the value of my PSN data with that $60? So should the game give me my money's worth and my PSN's data worth :D

    Also I run many local (offline tournaments) featuring the UFC games, which give the players fun(who can put a price on fun) , but my tournaments also expose EA's UFC to many many customers who don't play online, and might not have even purchased the game or been interested, or had ever heard about the gamet had it not been for my tournaments. B) Of course EA never asked me to promote their UFC series to hundreds of new potential customers, but I do in fact do it anyway :)

    So if one stretches one imagination a little, they could see that I gave ( 4 * $60) or so dollars + years of my PSN data mining, + roughly 8 years of totally free marketing and advertising of EA's UFC series to EA. Also on this very forum I've given EA's UFC DEVs game improvement/development ideas and suggestions that if I were to bill them as a software game consultant would be worth ........ well, since EA never expressly asked me for my 2 cent as a software game consultant I won't venture to put a price on the thousands of dollars of free consultation I've provided on this forum LOL :D

    I do agree. UFC 2 was better in some respects than UFC 1. But there were features taken out of UFC 1 that I liked. So it was a wash. UFC 3 was better in some respects than UFC 2 e.g I really liked the addition of tournament mode in UFC 3, but they took out rag doll physics from UFC 2, so UFC 3 was a wash. UFC 4 is better than UFC 3 in some respects, I love the new arenas, and submission changes, the clinch and even the Archetype system in UFC 4, but they took away the ability to customized move sets for your CAFs by the Archetype system that I basically like so again UFC 4 is hmmm..... a wash. I get just barely, kind-a, squeek-past, right-up-to $60 worth of a game. With each installment, its so close, I give up $$$$ in value, and I get a game that's always on the verge of being worth $60

    hmmm.......

    You're right technically EA doesn't owe me a damn thing. :p I willfully spent my money on each installment of EA's UFC. Nothing forces me to buy the game except my own naivete. On the other hand I happen to know what my data is worth, and what the marketing and advertising of the UFC series that I do which benefits EA is worth and I'm willing to bet that EA knows what its worth too ;) So in that respect it may not be an obligatory debt on EA's part, but there is definitely a symbiotic debt present. And without a good dose of customers like me, there won't be an EA o:)

    I do think this is the last installment of UFC that I buy on faith. If EA doesn't complete the offline and single player experience this time, I won't be doing a UFC 5 and I have a few measly followers on Twitch that would be interested in that fact. >:)

    Yeah I don’t think we’re really on the same page about this. I wasn’t expecting a masterpiece when I purchased UFC 4 or any game for that matter. Just looking for some fun and competition. It’s the same thing I get from all games I purchase, most are $60. Yes this game has some issues, but all do. $60 well spent IMO.
  • Yes!!! TBH I do ultimately feel that UFC 4 is worth the $60 that I spent. And depending on the quality of future DLC I'd be willing to spend even more on UFC4. But I am saying in some respects EA owes us somethings as customers, but in other respect they don't owe us anything. I'm not against all in game purchases, or DLC for that matter. I am against forced micro-transactions. For instance when a game developer adds so much grind to get an item that you either spend 2000 hours of game play or kindly cough up $2.99, $3.99 etc.

    Let say for example EA came up with 5 new arenas as DLC. If the price was right I would drop the extra cash. In that case I would not be forced to get the arenas, they would just be an enhancement to an already complete game.

    On the other hand (hypothetically) If UFC 4 shipped without UFC branded gloves and a player either had to play 100,000 matches or spend an additional $5.99 to get the gloves that would be the kind of nasty micro-transactions I hate.

    UFC 4 shipped in an incomplete state. I think with the patches that the game is now more or less complete and worth the $60. There are features in the offline modes that should be corrected for example the ability to edit the move list of the CAF archetypes. But if the DEVs don't want to add that ability they should add more archetypes to make up for the missing MMA styles. e.g. We don't have a Judo archetype, or Muay Thai archetype. And the Kickboxing archetypes (and there variations), don't quite do it. If I could edit my own archetype then I could make a true Judoka, or Muay Thai fighter. As it stands I can't. So this would be an example of something that EA should fix and not charge me additional money for. Because I consider the missing MMA styles a defect.

    On the other hand if the DEVs wanted to add a Pride Mode, or Survival Mode, as DLC , for the right price I would be willing to spend additional money.

    Yes EA UFC 4 is a good game, its worth the money. After the patches is for the most part complete. They do need to deal with the defect in the CAFs :)
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