Re: Logitech G923 Strange noises

@mariohomohI was thining yesterday to make more tests about this issue, and record a video with a studio mic (a Condenser behringer C1).
What would be the tests more relevant to understand and sort the things out?
My first idea, was making a test with raw audio (and video) from the wheel, with differents levels of settings on G-HUB and in-game (F1 23 only)
Also, comparing it with some other racing titles who supports trueforce would be useful?

If you, or a EA staff meber (or everyone as a consensus) can point me out wich ones are more relevant? so i can save a lot of hours on testing and editing.

EDIT and important: I can only test the pc version (Steam), with the logitech G923. Sadly, i couldn't show it with the version prior to the update (i can't downgrade the game)

Here you go. 

- First of all, sorry for my spoken english, i prefer to write.

- The video is out of ratio (could be worst, but i did it in a couple of hours. Will be better in future testings, if any)

- The audio is raw from my Behringer C1 microphone, with no filters, compression, EQ, etc (as it's shown in the video)

Lets see if can we sort the things, and i hope it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnQEyizcgjU

Brilliant mate this shows exactly what is wrong thank you 🙏 

@mariohomohComments #170 and #175 I believe are relevant on the subject. Does the Staff reads the messages here? Could you forward to them to make sure they are aware?

Thank you.

So i just bought the G923 and was going to purchase F1 23. Based on this thread, is it recommended to hold off? I'm new to this racing sim world. Sounds like its unplayable at this point on PS5?

@Wielewski25 there are many other useful posts here as well. To no one's surprise I guess since we're on the way to hitting 20 pages 🙃

But rest assured that EA does keep track of what is being discussed here.

For instance, in this comment I link a few clips of the G923 and G29 wheels and noises they can produce under normal operating circumstances and parameters, and also differentiate the Trueforce feedback from the regular (DirectInput) FFB, as they're not the same thing.

Trueforce is a proprietary Logitech SDK that produces an extra layer of feedback more akin to the haptic feedback of Dualsense controllers. They can use actual physics data and telemetry to provide that, but most cases they just feed on the audio data from the game to reproduce engine noises, rumble strips, tyre scrubbing etc via vibrations. So Trueforce does not have any impact on the resistance or the forces of the steering column.

@Santial2885 many, many thanks for the video!

To you and everyone else concerned, I've reached out to Logitech with the video kindly provided by Santial2885. They've confirmed that those noise levels are expected for a title running Trueforce effects at 100%, and if what you're experiencing is close to what Santial captured in his video you can carry on playing the game as it should not put your wheel nowhere near breaking 👍

Yes, that noisiness can be annoying as heck, and most people would probably prefer to tone the Trueforce audio down. In the meantime we can all work around the lack of a dedicated Trueforce slider by dialing down the audio effects in the game settings, while PC players also have the option to do that via G Hub in the Trueforce section of the settings. 

TL;DR: Noises are frustratingly loud, but normal for the wheel running with Trueforce audio set to 100%. This should not break your wheel. Console and PC players and dial it down by turning audio effects down in the game settings, while PC players can also tone TF effects down in the G Hub software.

Let's hope EA implements a proper Trueforce slider in the game like other simracing titles.

Lowering the Audio does not do anything unfortunately unless you play with 0. 
But thanks to every single person that a posted something, seems like we are hopefully getting closer to getting this fixed !

It’s unbelievable, especially when I hear there’s no issue, not so relevant…don’t know what’s the problem with most of the guys here, I’m so angry for this, i have paid for this, and I want to play…lower to zero, deactivate this, enable that….are u serious?? I just want to play my * game, roll this * down and put the previous * version 😂😂EA is the best of the best in terms of in game purchase, for all the rest, especially updates, it’s all about luck 

Making a small effort to hopefully get a quicker fix to the issue multiple people are having.

I uploaded a short video where I tried to capture the noise my wheel is doing. The biggest issue is the grinding/whirring coming from the center of the wheel, which feels quite unnatural. The curbs feel way different/louder and also buggy since the last patch, but for me personally, it's not that big of an issue. 

Although my microphone does not pick the sound up that well, you can still hear it. I'm mainly pointing to the sound the wheel makes when I'm driving on the straight and not moving the wheel at all. If this is actually intentional behavior and a "feature" then its quite sad. Prior to the patch all was butter smooth.

Anyone else in the same boat?

@twitchnkfcMaroco Great! Especially for capturing the TF noise with the wheel centered.

I'm assuming that's TF because you mentioned it not being there before last week's patch. If that's correct, reducing the in-game slider for the Effects audio should also attenuate that?

Just so that no one spins this around, I am not ok with this workaround. I want my Trueforce effects resolved on their own, without interfering with my audio mix – just like in all major titles that have worked the TF feature in. Hope it gets fixed soon. And properly.

To shed more light on how this whole FFB/Trueforce thing works with these gear-driven Logitech wheels, there are two helpful teardowns out there

• Will, from Boosted Media
• Barry, from Sim Racing Garage

The G923 has an updated and more capable motor circuitry, but apart from that it is the same wheel as the G29/G920. Will goes in detail about those differences in his teardown. You can see that in the top half of the picture below. 

Right click on the image and Open on a new tab to see in the full resolution.

Both wheels produce the FFB the same. Those two silver cylinders are the motors and they all have a pinion gear at the top end, which you cannot see here. When they turn, they turn another gear, bigger, behind that steel cover. Those gears move that cogged track (yellow arrow) sideways, as shown in Barry's video. That track will turn the steering shaft (red arrow) in turn, or resist its movement. So whenever the steering wheel turns itself, or you turn it, it's all about the cogged steering column turning on the cogged horizontal track with the aid or the resistance produced by those two silver motors.

So where's the Trueforce mechanism? Well, there's none 🙂

Trueforce are all about subtle vibrations derived either from the game physics or the game audio – in the case of F1, the latter. Those vibrations are made by the very same assembly: it's the same silver motors spinning on that same cogged track which in turn makes the steering wheel rapidly oscillate left and right, mimicking the vibrations you'd get through the wheel, dashboard and floor of the car depending on what's going on with the engine and the tyres. 

Just that.

Any rattle or grinding or whining sound we hear from these wheels come from those motors and cogs. There are no other moving parts.

So that annoying and worrying sound you're getting when going straight, @twitchnkfcMaroco? Well, apparently it's just annoying, we can scrap the "worrying" part. 

There is still an issue, naturally. And it stems from the keyword I italicized above: subtle. As of now, Trueforce audio effects are cranked up to max, and there's no proper way to make them subtle. Until a better solution turns up (pun intended), we'll need to make do by working around the problem and turning those audio effects down in the game – the actual audio ones, in the Audio Settings of F1 23. 

I may have gotten some of the details wrong, but I believe that's the gist of it.

I encourage anyone still worried about it to contact Logitech with these two user-submitted videos (Maroco's above and @Santial2885 on page 18)  and ask them to confirm that the wheel is still working in a, well, deprived state of normalcy, and still far from risking damage. But that was what I got from them earlier, and all these videos still line up with the "yeah, that's the noisy Logitech wheel indeed" fame that these wheels have always carried in the simracing scene.

With this... brash implementation of Trueforce, and with the rework that the FFB got in F1 23, it's probably the first time that most of us get to experience this fame in first hand. That probably adds to the general sense of uneasiness, specially if F1 is one's main title. This franchise was never known for its crème de la crème FFB in the business after all, and F1 23 represents quite the pivotal point in this regard – again, it's both Trueforce debut on consoles and a reworked FFB on the same year.

But it should not put our hardware at peril, just our patience and goodwill towards EA.

I played different games, and the only one that gives me this horrible sounds is f1 23. I don’t know if the other games use or not truforce feature, but f1 is unplayable 

@mariohomoh reducing the in-game slider for the Effects audio in F1 23, doesn't attenuate or reduce the "whirring" sound. You can see it in my video with all the sliders at 1. Also, even as a feature, don't think that adds-up anything to the "feeling" of the car, you can barely hear it when using headsets. (it's just a sound)

@RVladimiro I've just tested it with ACC, that is another Trueforce compatible game (source: official logitech page. Screenshot attached)

1º - The vibrations and the force are really strong, and make a lot of noise (from the cogs) but even at 100% (default settings), are softer than the noise produced by some curbs described in my video.

2º - Regarding trueforce: the vibrations in the wheel, matches with the sound of the engine. Lets suppose that you stop the car with the engine on, and mute the game volume, you can hear the engine running in the base on the wheel (as it were an actual engine).

3º- The "whirring" noise that we're hearing in F1 23, are not present in ACC at any moment.

Hello

I got the same problem with noisy wheel after the patch. Been 1 week on viccation and came home too finally play, but im not shock that EA have broken the game.

Good job EA, you dont have resources or money to give out a proper patch

@RVladimiro Logitech sends the SDK (software dev kit) to the companies to implement this feature in their game, and the implementation depends on what game are you trying to make, and trying to make the ffb feeling, as much it can be possible to a "real car"

In my opinion, it would be unfair to compare the FFB of the games 1 to 1, because what you can feel driving a F1 car, It's completely different from what you should feel driving a GT car, or a Rally car.

Having said that, I think the wheels for F1 23 are working as intended, @mariohomoh confirmed that with Logitech. (I don't know if there is any kind of bug or not, i don't have the tools to see what's happening "behind the scenes")

As I understand it (someone correct me if i'm wrong), Trueforce wasn't working at release, and was introduced in-game with the patch, and that's why "is working as intended", but without the possibility of tweak the values, the force, and the intensity of it, (supposedly at 100% all the time), it feels like you are fighting with the wheel, instead of controlling it, and that's what I think people are talking about in this thread, including myself.

One last note: i've already test the game reducing trueforce values in G-hub, and it creates another weird and inconsistent behaviours with FFB as a whole, that would deserve another full video to show it and explaining it. (i could make it if i'ts relevant to the conversation)