Going to lock this now as it is just spam and arguing with nothing constructive about it.
If posting on AHQ please do so in a polite and constructive manner.
Darko
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThere's a big difference in actively modifying the game and/or memory values to give you artificially better grip (cheating), and using built in features in a game, don't you think?
Are you seriously comparing competitive cheating with accessibility features and trying to argue that it is the same thing?
I am confident that you would be of the opposite opinion if you had any disabilities or impairments.
artificially better grip - that would be called Traction Control would it not?
of course accessibility features should be there, but tell me where in this game can apples be compared to apples? Like for Like? name 1 spot? I can't. A racing game can't just be about participation trophies there has to be some fair competition.
@ScarDuck14 & @AllanWeigand That is exactly the key point here, the game limits the user with the assists, cuts engine power with TC, braking with ABS takes slightly longer to fully decelerate (albeit with less tyre wear, which isn't relevant in TT anyway) etc.
So to argue that you get an competitive advantage is simply not truthful, a seasoned driver without assists would beat a driver on a controller with (with any level of assists) any day of the week.
And regarding the racing line, if one isn't familiar enough with a track, one can just enable racing line until more proficient at said track, nobody is forcing you to not use it.
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThere's a big difference in actively modifying the game and/or memory values to give you artificially better grip (cheating), and using built in features in a game, don't you think?
Are you seriously comparing competitive cheating with accessibility features and trying to argue that it is the same thing?
I am confident that you would be of the opposite opinion if you had any disabilities or impairments.artificially better grip - that would be called Traction Control would it not?
of course accessibility features should be there, but tell me where in this game can apples be compared to apples? Like for Like? name 1 spot? I can't. A racing game can't just be about participation trophies there has to be some fair competition.
So you are doubling down here on your stance that actually cheating (actively modifying memory tables and grip values of the game with external tools) in a competitive setting is comparable with using the accessibility features in a game? Get real.
In the case of online cheating, it's not the traction control (limit engine output) in the sense that's already present in the game, it's literally more mechanical grip, think using a super soft tyre instead of a Soft, which enables you to take corners quicker, and not reduce slipping the same way like the actual TC does.
It's not even remotely comparable.
@dotazured wrote: (partial quote for succinct purposes)which isn't relevant in TT anyway) etc.
simple answer is let the TT Leaderboard be sorted into those who use assists and those who don't including Driving Line.
@dotazured wrote: (partial quote for succinct purposes) "So to argue that you get an competitive advantage is simply not truthful, a seasoned driver without assists would beat a driver on a controller with (with any level of assists) any day of the week."
Explain my results from last year! In F1 22 my Time Trials averaged top 14.73%. In a Weekly Event GP that compensated for assists used I finished in the top 1.47%.
@dotazured wrote: (partial quote for succinct purposes) "And regarding the racing line, if one isn't familiar enough with a track, one can just enable racing line until more proficient at said track, nobody is forcing you to not use it."
But I am being forced to compare my results to those who use assists, again, show me where in this game can I compare apples and apples?
@dotazured wrote: (partial quote for succinct purposes) "Are you seriously comparing competitive cheating with accessibility features and trying to argue that it is the same thing?"I drive with no assists and I think that being forced to race with someone who uses all assists, that person to me personally is cheating, yes. Not once have I compared competitive cheating with accessibility features, read the transcript.
@dotazured wrote: (partial quote for succinct purposes) "So you are doubling down here on your stance that actually cheating (actively modifying memory tables and grip values of the game with external tools) in a competitive setting is comparable with using the accessibility features in a game? Get real.
See above and read the transcript.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandOkay, so I think it is safe to say that you are no longer taking this topic seriously and are just trolling at this point.
Please do remind me of the topic.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandOkay, so I think it is safe to say that you are no longer taking this topic seriously and are just trolling at this point.
Is the topic "what is fair in Ranked online?" Tell me how I am off topic. There is no way in F1 23 to compare apples and apples. If there is show me where?
Does anybody seriously think that some drivers in E-Sports should be able to use assists and others not? That is for anyone thinking I should 'get real'.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandPlease do remind us how this is relevant?
Why do you keep comparing competitive cheating with external software to the accessibility tools that are built into the game?
Not once have I done that. Read the transcript as I have told you already.
The thread is what is fair in Ranked Multi-player.
Do you think some competitors in E-Sports should have access to Assists while others don't? Answer the question please, I ask it with respect.
No driver in E-Sports uses any assists. As it’s against the rules!!
The Driver that allegedly cheated did not use any in game assists. They used a 3rd party grip hack which he got from a 3rd party that was downloaded to their PC.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThat is literally what you have done multiple times though? The reason nobody drives with assists in esports, is that it is slower, you would be at a competitive disadvantage.
would some people who use assists be slower if they didn't use them? I.E. a partially blind person.
@ScarDuck14 wrote:No driver in E-Sports uses any assists. As it’s against the rules!!
The Driver that allegedly cheated did not use any in game assists. They used a 3rd party grip hack which he got from a 3rd party that was downloaded to their PC.
Would you allow assisted drivers to compete in E-Sports? How can I compare apples with apples in F1 23. It is not possible is it? How is it fair in Ranked Multi-player? Pretty simple question.
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThat is literally what you have done multiple times though? The reason nobody drives with assists in esports, is that it is slower, you would be at a competitive disadvantage.would some people who use assists be slower if they didn't use them? I.E. a partially blind person.
@AllanWeigandAbsolutely. Which partially blind e-sport driver are you referring to?
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandAbsolutely. Which partially blind e-sport driver are you referring to?
Ok so now you want everyone who uses 3D drining line to provide a doctors certificate to be allowed to use 3D drining line.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThat is literally what you have done multiple times though? The reason nobody drives with assists in esports, is that it is slower, you would be at a competitive disadvantage.would some people who use assists be slower if they didn't use them? I.E. a partially blind person.
@AllanWeigandAbsolutely. Which partially blind e-sport driver are you referring to?
Because only partially blind people use 3D driving line.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThat is literally what you have done multiple times though? The reason nobody drives with assists in esports, is that it is slower, you would be at a competitive disadvantage.would some people who use assists be slower if they didn't use them? I.E. a partially blind person.
@AllanWeigandAbsolutely. Which partially blind e-sport driver are you referring to?
The reason I can't name one is because assists are not ALLOWED in E-Sports
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@ScarDuck14 wrote:No driver in E-Sports uses any assists. As it’s against the rules!!
The Driver that allegedly cheated did not use any in game assists. They used a 3rd party grip hack which he got from a 3rd party that was downloaded to their PC.
Would you allow assisted drivers to compete in E-Sports? How can I compare apples with apples in F1 23. It is not possible is it? How is it fair in Ranked Multi-player? Pretty simple question.
What point are you even trying to make right now?
So you have gone from comparing cheating with external tools competitively to using accessibility features of the game, to questioning why there's different rules in casual gameplay and the highest levels of competitive play.
Man, come on.
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigand wrote:
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandThat is literally what you have done multiple times though? The reason nobody drives with assists in esports, is that it is slower, you would be at a competitive disadvantage.would some people who use assists be slower if they didn't use them? I.E. a partially blind person.
@AllanWeigandAbsolutely. Which partially blind e-sport driver are you referring to?
The reason I can't name one is because assists are not ALLOWED in E-Sports
So are you now advocating for people to use assists in e-sports? I am really confused now.
So are you now advocating for people to use assists in e-sports? I am really confused now.
@dotazured after I just said not ALLOWED.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandAre you even hearing yourself right now?
I prefer to discuss points of difference rather than abuse someone for not being able to hear myself, BTW tacho's were invented for people who can't listen to the motor rev and know exactly if they are red lining.
@dotazured wrote:
@AllanWeigandAre you even hearing yourself right now?
answer just 1 question where in this game can I compare apples and apples? for the..... 10th time?
Vast majority of people who buy this game use controller and assists and only play for a few hours a week until they get bored. They like you pay their money and are entitled to play every mode within the game. Including ranked. Just because the title says ranked does not mean it’s a competitive mode that only the non assisted players can play. It’s still a social multiplayer mode where any and all assists are enabled for everyone to use or not use. And whether you win every race or come dead last it doesn’t matter. As it’s not a serious competitive mode where you will be crowned champion or win any kind of prize. If that’s what you’re looking join a league.
@ScarDuck14 (partial quote) wrote:Just because the title says ranked does not mean it’s a competitive mode that only the non assisted players can play. It’s still a social multiplayer mode where any and all assists are enabled for everyone to use or not use. And whether you win every race or come dead last it doesn’t matter. As it’s not a serious competitive mode where you will be crowned champion or win any kind of prize. If that’s what you’re looking join a league.
Just to pick out a couple of meanings. Ranked is not competitive, it's social, not a serious competitive mode. Participation trophies will be awarded to everyone. If you don't like it, go away and join a league where you can compete with 22 people BUT DEFINATELY not the rest of the world, cause you may be a little upset if you don't get a trophy. RANKED IS A WASTE OF TIME. Show me somewhere where I can compare apple with apples, Weekly Event from F1 22 that compensates for assists used is gone. Apples are now oranges! Thank you for making my point. I still love the game, but I am restricted to TT and Grand Prix against AI, I might as well play golf against my handicap. If you want to make this thread about anything other than "RANKED IS A WASTE OF TIME", sure, go ahead, if you want to make it about the benifits of inclusion, you won't get an argument from me. But, RANKED IS A WASTE OF TIME. 3. relative position or standing, is a waste of time because apples will be oranges in F1 23.
