Defenseman AI
Ea please fix the defenseman AI they are always getting beat and they are not poking checking
Forum Discussion
22 Replies
- @TTZ_Dipsy So are you suggesting the AI is better or baseline humans are better because it seems like you've gone back and forth. Not trying to argue just genuinely curious. I've seen P4 players who can't defend anything at all. You say "once you learn" some players just NEVER learn. This is why many players would STILL rather have CPU players than humans, at least you can anticipate them to do certain things. I want to get to a point that when I enter WOC I play with humans and against humans. If people are still finding CPU to be the better option iver a base level human then they aren't seeking humans out.
I think one thing they need to bring back and expand on is an AI coach. It tells you what you need to be doing better and has video tutorials and that hockey training camp. Anytime a friend bought the game that hadn't previously played I always had them play the training camp first and just had them skip the advanced dekes and faceoffs. I then gave them my own tutorial on how to defend and where to position and whatnot.
Once teams like those that are running 2 forwards in EASHL 6's start forming bigger teams and instead of 600 2's teams we have 200 more 6's teams it will honestly be a lot more enjoyable (imo anyway) Humans will always be better than cpu (except when it comes to goalies - I've never seen a good human goalie).
A human, no matter how bad, can be taught - my team has done that with a few of our friend who didn't know hockey. We could tell em "just hang in this spot and hold out your stick" and they'd find success, way more so than any horrible ai.
I don't know what to tell you mate - not being able to learn how to pull back then forward is simply a skill issue and a lesson on getting good. Most people who claim ai are too good play 6v6 where everyone is able to play with a min/maxed build and they can all stick to zones -- Those who play 3v3 dont have that luxury and are forced into jack of all trades that need to travel further out of what the game consideres normal parameters -- an AI coach will have no context here and say our D is lacking when I've scored 6 goals and let them get 1 -- Now, if they added offline's AI learning, maybe we'd be getting somewhere...
The 3v3 ai here still uses 6v6 logic and the D position does what the F should be doing (according to the strategies charts) and even have a 1.5 second delay on all faceoffs!
Ai has never been updated to keep up with the new speed mechanics humans use so they are left in the dust.
I'd rather they just create a 2v2 mode so there are no what-ifs at play.
I don't have 5 other friends I can trust to win the way my one buddy and I do so i'm stuck with 3v3 since 6v6 with more ai is just a clog fest and is boring since other full teams dont wanna play us. Add our 3rd friend who is a top HUT player we'd be a top 5 team easy, we just all cant get a good schedule going.
- @rsandersr47 Idk where you got that the humans I play with are bad. I'm a top 50 RW, our C is a top 50 C, we have someone who plays LW and one who plays solid D. We can't all get on at the same time everytime so 2 or 3 of us will play. Teams shouldn't be handicapped because they can't get everyone on at the same time. AI should be serviceable enough to keep a team in it, instead they get burned and the goalie lets up the weakest goals ever 99% of the time, all they gotta do is skate right into him, do some garbage backhand and put it in, no move involved.
The AI penalties are also a huge issue, they take a ton of them each game. I don't think AI should be the reason a team wins a game, I also don't think AI should be the reason teams lose either. AI should be able to play smart defense and not get burned every single time, that's the issue. Yet in Eashl 3v3 most teams will run a forward and defenseman and have an Ai winger or center. The Ai forward becomes the best player on the team. Hes always in great position in the offensive zone and when that human dman wants to play Forward the Ai will cover for him. Its an absolute joke.
If you play center winger in 3v3 the Ai dman is virtually useless. He waits till the opposing player skates by to turn around. He never hits or attempts to poke check even when the guy is directly next to him. The Ai dman also waits forever to pass to open players or makes the bank pass off the boards when it isn't necessary. Ai dman also wont shoot without the human calling for a shot.
Again The Ai has been one of the biggest areas EA couldve focused on instead the Add more and more garbage to this game before they fix the biggest problems.
- @Cher-Sharkisian AI forwards are easily better than the defense AI, they take too many penalties, but at least they have use. If the defense AI was half as good as forward AI's this wouldn't even be a discussion lol. Williams and Brunner take a hundred penalties a game, but at least they can score.
- @TTZ_Dipsy well I meant base level human vs AI. Not trained by anyone. Sure a human is better than AI after getting ANY coaching, but many 2's teams don't want to coach anyone, most dont play defense themselves. They just want a CPU to play defense for them and many cherry pick and then complain when they get scored on. I see it SO often.
As far as goalies go, God bless anyone who plays that position and has any success. Any time I play with a goalie (unless they're giving up like 80% of shots) I try to stay positive with them. Now they made CPU goalies even better haha! I have seen a handful of good Human goalies but it's a very small number. I wish they would do more to get more people to play that position but it's a thankless job.
I primarily play 3v3 now and I agree there wouldn't be a perfect AI coach but if players are doing really boneheaded things it may help. I know when I firsts tasted playing NHL (I had NO clue about hockey) and the training camp helped a ton, then I played BAP and the coach told me to work on X, Y, and Z so I did, then jumped online.
2v2 doesn't sound that good to me but if people played it, then why not. Just seems it would thin the population even more though. 6v6 in this Sim really is just too much.
Yeah, when all my friends used to play I had 1 friend who was just as good as me 1 who was avg and 2 that were below replacement level value haha. That's what made it fun though, we would try to get to D1 and we knew we had to bail out the guys with less of a grasp. The ai Forward is often a teams best player/crutch.
If you are playing as a 2 man club in 3v3 most teams will run a forward and a dman because the Ai forward will play back if the dman wants to load in as a dman but play forward all game or the Ai forward will be in perfect position with a great shot or very easily finds the rebounds faster than a human because the Ai reaction time is almost perfect.
Ai Dman on the other hand is a teams biggest weakness. I think id rather be given the option of a placing a traffic cone anywhere on the ice over the Ai dman.
- @Cher-Sharkisian I rarely play 3's, but I have noticed that in the game I have played. Our club plays 99% of our games in 6's. Normally we have 3, 4 people on at the same time, in the times we do have 3 people, I play RW, a friend plays C and another friend plays D. When we have 4 that person goes to LW, and on the rare chances out other clubmate can get on he goes to the other D. But its rare that we have everyone on at once, its usually just 3 or 4 of us at the same time.
Base level fresh off the boat humans who know nothing about hockey will be better than a 3v3 AI defenseman 100%.
My buddy and I play plenty of defense and do pretty well despite being a sniper and playmaker combo and the fact the new pressure system was never tested and defensive capabilities as a whole are severely lacking overall.
I'd like to nudge you in the direction of this post I made: https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion-News/I-hate-the-AI/m-p/13224521#M9336 -- it doesn't show everything they do but gives a taste of what I see.
I think it's a terrible thing what they did to human goalie controls but honestly, how can they make it any better without VR? There are just way too many animations and moves for a simple controller to accomodate.
I believe there was 1 or 2 times when we had 5 best friends (3 of whom weren't all that great but were having fun) and it was some of the most entertaining gaming we've ever had. Of it weren't for nostalgia sake, I doubt my buddy and I would play at all -- I get the game for free and gameshare with him and we still feel ripped off at times. Being competitive (or rather just hating to lose) can come back to bite you at times.
@TTZ_DipsyI'm competitive and hate to lose, but the most fun I've had is playing with a full team of friends whether is 3's or 6's. I'll play drops until I find a suitable club.
I know how bad CPU D can be. I'm not arguing that at all. But I disagree. I'd take cpu D (or as others have said I'd prob just play d and make them a forward if we're being honest) over a base level player. Base level players almost always lose where they are on the ice. Get too aggressive either in the offensive zone, on the forecheck, or as they enter the zone and give up goals. At Least the CPU will make you skate around them (as little of an issue as that is) I'm by no means suggesting these CPU players are competent. They are "good" at a few things and absolutely unforgivingly bad at most things. I still take them over a base level player and that's why we still see lots of players choosing to play 6's with 2 people. Why would you want to play dropin or find human defensemen when the avg base level player has proven to be worse? Ask anyone who plays 6's with 2 people. Or 3's people who refuse to find a third. Most will say they at least know where the cpu will be and they typically place them in the best place. I.e. in front of the net on offense and in front of the net on defense. They snag those loose pucks so often getting rebound goals, getting 1t's making sure the other team can't do the same. A base level player just wouldn't know to even be in that position in my experience. And most of those little things the CPU goes unnoticed or unappreciated. Now if the cpu snag a rebound or picks off a cross crease pass and then gets bumped or a cherry picker calls for it and the other team gets in front of that pass and it gets picked, you will hear those forwards who were cherry picking yell about how awful their CPU was despite them making a potential saved goal and them calling for it at a bad time.
Idk I think we agree with eacjother on most stuff but I'm 100% taking the cpu even if they are bad. I've played with some BAD dropin players.I do think a potential idea would be more incentives to get a 6 man team (or 4 man team for 3's) and also add more ways to meet free agents and for free agents to meet teams. Having players have a "FA" or which club they're affiliated with while in drops would be nice. Having the players stats all on one player profile would be cool. Same with clubs Having in game club profiles. I could see how defensive minded a player/ club is, how they handle a puck or pass % I could see what mode(s) they tend to play. Or if they're like me and play a lot of diff modes. I like that they allowed clubs to have skaters join their team when searching but most clubs would rather have the CPU still. I think they need to dump dropin and KEEP that quick mode but have quick 6's too. That mode tracks no stats, you can quit if you get trolls, you can play with your club. You can play 3x or 4x as many players in as much time. It's a great mode to find players/ clubs (in my experience) they just need to build on it and show which players are free agents and give incentives for club play.
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