Dumping the puck

@hiperaySometimes you have to find the middle ground of something hated and something they felt was too effective.  Which is something many never take into account.

Well they  need someone that has a vision of actual hockey then 

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:

Well they  need someone that has a vision of actual hockey then 

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How is this not considered "actual hockey"? Shocking. I was able to flip dump the puck out of the zone..

@KidShowtime1867 

You know full well that flipping the puck 6 feet in the air from a foot inside of your zone isn’t what is being talked about.

@Treatmentworke66 

For better or worse the developers are not able to fully include “hockey logic” into all aspects of the game because of the need to combat online metas and complaints.

But being able to skate full speed into the boards of your own zone and then no look backhand it instantaneously 75-100 feet down the ice was? Like come on let’s be honest with ourselves here. The dump the puck animation was stupid strong in older games and was a defensive get out of jail free card when your other 4 skaters on the ice are disregarding a clean breakout as a team and are instead, at the centerline leaving their teammate hung out to dry! This is a team game after all and breaking the puck out is a team task, not an individual one.
I’ll agree that the forehand dump should be stronger though. If you are pulling back on the forehand, then the puck should shoot to the moon. But alas it doesn’t and so we have to find new ways of clearing the puck as a team. Adapt to a gameplay change.

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@Beauts90 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

You know full well that flipping the puck 6 feet in the air from a foot inside of your zone isn’t what is being talked about.

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Seems like everytime I post a GIF showing a mechanic work fine when executed properly, the goal posts get moved. The complaint has been that users are unable to flip the puck outside the zone from inside the zone. My gif demonstrates that this is not the case. 

It sounds like you want the get-out-of-jail free mechanic where you toss the puck 30-ft in the air and the puck instantly clears the zone without any responsibility to actually move the puck with hockey plays and using hockey IQ. This seems to contradict the demand that hockey IQ and skill be the determining factor in any given scenario. 

@KidShowtime1867 

No man, the goal posts aren’t getting moved. You are trying to do exactly what you have done around here for years. Stir the pot using a technicality to show everybody that they are wrong and you are right.
It will get to the point where you complain that somebody “attacked you for no reason,” which then usually leads to the thread getting locked.

Hockey IQ involves knowing when to just get the puck out of the zone (get out of jail free card as you call it) or make an attempted play that has a lower chance of clearing the zone. It’s why all of the best players and teams use this strategy and don’t try to force plays, especially when tired. 

@Beauts90 

There's no pot stirring here. What @KidShowtime1867  does is show that what people claim to be broken, unplayable, impossible, etc. is not quite as such. I get that most everyone here has a very negative outlook on the game. That doesn't mean when someone has an alternative point of view they automatically need to be labeled as a pot stirrer. This is the one warning I will give. Keep the discussion about the game and not slandering each other.

@EA_Aljo 

Do you actually think dumping the puck out a foot from the blue line is what @Treatmentworke66 is talking about and @KidShowtime1867 showing it will lead to constructive discussion?

If that’s what the thought process is, no need for a warning, not any reason to continue the dialogue.

@Beauts90 

What I'm saying is to be respectful of other people's opinions. He's trying to show how to successfully dump the puck when others say it can't be done. There's nothing wrong with that.

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:
@Beauts90exactly that's not I'm talking about ,I'm not talking about just a simple clear ,which would still be a hockey play, I'm talking about creating a play from using the puck flip from deep inside the defensive zone, which you already understand, thank you

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@Beauts90 wrote:

@EA_Aljo 

Do you actually think dumping the puck out a foot from the blue line is what @Treatmentworke66 is talking about and @KidShowtime1867 showing it will lead to constructive discussion?

 

If that’s what the thought process is, no need for a warning, not any reason to continue the dialogue.

 

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okay fine.... literally just hopped into an OVP game and flip dumped a bunch. Even created a play or two.

or this

or this

or this

how will the goal posts move this time? 

am I not clearing from far back enough? Am I not creating enough of a play?

I really want to know what else I need to show in order to prove the flip dump does work? 

people have a hard time using it because they aim it into traffic and don’t take the time to learn and understand how it’s used.

Like should I go back behind the goal line ? Is the issue that the “flip dump is broken” or is it that the flip dump doesn’t work behind the goal line? Because I’m showing that it’s not broken.

@KidShowtime1867 

There are no goal posts to move, you cleared the zone, congrats.

That’s not my issue, maybe @Treatmentworke66 will want to get into that more with you, but that’s not my issue.

You showed a flip with the maximum height and velocity from a 12 year old, not an NHL player.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

It sounds like you want the get-out-of-jail free mechanic where you toss the puck 30-ft in the air and the puck instantly clears the zone without any responsibility to actually move the puck with hockey plays and using hockey IQ. 

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The last thing I will say about this topic is yes, this is what I want because it’s an actual tactic used in the sport of hockey and that’s how I want this game to be played.

I don’t care if it’s a “get out of jail free mechanic” or not how the developers want us to play.

@Beauts90get out of jail free ,what a ridiculous phrase to use...this wasn't directed at you my friend 

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:
@Beauts90 get out of jail free ,what a ridiculous phrase to use

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This was a lot more applicable before the pressure system changes.

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@smugxb wrote:

What's the deal with the difficulty introduced this year with something as simple as dumping the puck? I mean, it's always been problematic, but this year, it's ridiculous that half the time your skater has a problem reaching their own blue line.

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:
@smugxbIt's stupid and ridiculous that under pressure you're not able to flip the puck out of your zone ,not to mention it can also be used to create a breakout play ,needs to be reverted back to how it use to be ....this was a dumb idea

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@TasteofChicago91 wrote:

Furthermore why isn’t there a feature/way to do a quick HIGH off the glass shot clear.. as of now you can shoot it out for a dump but it’s usually too low..

but when I’m watching an NHL game I see players clear it high off the glass and with great power too.. and they can do it very quickly too. When they clear it like this it’s wayyy more effective because it can’t be picked off.. nhl 24 or 25 NEEDS this. 

defensemen could really use a tool like this 

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@Cote12 wrote: But how am I supposed to react when something so integral to the game gets reduced to a weak little fart? How am I supposed to take any of it seriously when they worked so hard all year— while I impatiently waited, excited— just to see something so bananas crazy?

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@PernellKarl027 wrote:

I also use the HIGH dump in 23, when in my zone as a D sometimes to throw a "long bomb" to one of my forwards leaving the zone early… You should see the smile on my face when it connects 😀

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oh, like this?

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:

Flipping the puck out of the defensive zone under pressure or to create a play is part of hockey ...what will be nerfed next being able to slap the puck out of the defensive zone ....absolute garbage 

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@smugxb wrote:So sans PK, you don't have a valid way to decrease pressure other than skating it or passing it out, which by the way, is much harder when all of your energy is drained.

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@rsandersr47 wrote:
you FURTHER tampered with the real sport by removing something that is used in almost every real hockey game.. 

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@Limp_KidzKit wrote:

i mean..you see tons of flipped pucks into neutral to get a line change IRL...

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@Limp_KidzKit wrote:

maybe have tons of incidental contact so the forecheck can actually disrupt the play? mayeb add real forechecking strategies to the game 

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote: they rigged it so you can't just simply flip the puck out when under pressure

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@trunkfu wrote:

I've had countless times when a defenseman had all the time in the world and still couldn't get the puck past the first forward.

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:
@RelentlessJ69You also see in hockey is the ability to flip the puck out 

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:

I simple hockey play that happens frequently has been removed

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@Hanseniza wrote:

its juse makes zero sense why EA removed so basic normally thing like a dump from the game

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@NeonSkyline21 wrote: when I chip the puck off the glass in my real-life hockey games, the puck goes HARD off that glass and goes either down the length of the ice or high up into the stratosphere where no one is going to jump and catch it.

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Velocity can be upped, but the mechanic still works just as the hockey IQ guys want it to:

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@Treatmentworke66 wrote:
@KlariskraysNHLthe puck flip was also used to create break out plays under the right circumstances and with the right strategies, and I never heard anyone say the hated the puck flip

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Dumping the puck isn't "broken". Can it be improved upon? Most certainly. But if executed properly, it can yield the same real-world results that the people in this thread who claim it's "broken" - are looking for.

As with most things people claim to be "broken" - it's not. It takes some practice to master. There's a new methodology behind it's execution. Many of us, myself included, rallied for core gameplay changes to make the game feel fresh. Rather than try to learn and adapt to the new methods and techniques - people just come here to complain it's 'broken'. I am so passionately against people claiming the new things are 'broken' because the changes in gameplay are refreshing. Yes, it can be improved upon, but what's equally true is that if executed properly and with skill, they're as effective as their real-life counterparts. 

If we all start giving into the groupthink and echochambers who claim everything new is broken, then we revert back to the stale mechanics that were due for change. 

I'm trying to provide some help to those struggling with this mechanic. I'm wanting to show that it IS possible to execute the play you want, but you need to have some patience in grasping how the devs intended for you to execute it rather than get frustrated at a misfire and insisting it's broken. 

I'd also like to say that these clips are not "cherry picked" in the sense that I played 40 games and only got a few instances of the mechanic working. These were all taken from the same 2-3 games that I played purposely to execute the flip dump to show that it works. I'm also playing against players with CR's of 600-700. Not the best in the world, but absolutely a good median CR for what 99% of the people in these threads play against.

I know the goal posts will be moved again, and I welcome that. I'm excited that this debate has forced me to learn more about the nuance of the flip. It's yeilded some great offensive scenarios and setups, and has given me even more confidence that I'm able to work my way out from under full pressure. I hate the pressure meter, but finding ways to combat against it is kinda fun tbh. I believe it's the meta that EA was going for. I'm still overall, pessimistic about the mechanic but the recent changes and the continued effort in learning how to clear the puck to provide those examples in this thread have made me more positive.

@KidShowtime1867 I don't think this is the issue being discussed. Are these dumps? Technically speaking, yes they are. Is this what happens in hockey? Most often, no.

There are of course times when players want to soft dump the puck, yes, but mainly to burn time or get a change. Most other times, and specifically on the PK, NHL players are not soft dumping the puck like this. They are dumping either very high in the air, or very hard off the glass. 

The dumps shown are extremely subdued, and kids playing hockey can dump the puck harder and higher than this. I think that's what these other posters are aiming for in their posts as well. 

Further, the CPU still can't clear the puck effectively, and routinely their clears are caught by the opposing team. Also, 6v6, the soft clears are just corralled by the opposing team and brought right back in. This may work in VS, but it is not as effective in 6v6.

We don't even bother with this anymore and either pass, slapshot, or wrist it out to clear. Although you sometimes still have the unrealistic play of skaters grabbing a slapshot out of the air. 🤦

So yes, while you can dump the puck in this game, this is just being semantical. High hard dumps do not exist in this game in the traditional sense. This is a real hockey play and should be in the game.

That's the contention here and it's already been said that this was done to enable the pressure system to work better.

Oh cool, maybe show us a clip of the ai trying to clear it from the goal line and flips it right to the opposing defenders. Yup, totally fine works as intended. 🙄

I see 20 clips of dumping the puck working and 0 clips of it not working 🤷‍♂️

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@RelentlessJ69 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867I just don't care to upload the clips of the AI not being able to dump the puck only to have the opposing team catch it before it leaves the zone 99% of the time because its already been established that EA doesn't want puck dumps to take away from the pressure system lol.

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Show a clip so the team knows what exactly the issue is 🤷‍♂️