EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerHitting acceleration reverted today 2/5
Hello, NHL Fans. The change that was made in last week's update regarding the accelration with hitting being removed, was reverted.
Forum Discussion
EA_AljoCommunity Manager
Community Manager
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
Obviously I'm in the minority on this, but I'm uncertain how anyone who wants this game to be sim would agree that accelerating from a body check attempt is favorable to a more nuanced and positional approach to body checking.
I don't consider the hitting mechanic to be perfect, but the recent change did add responsibility to the hitter which opened up the game a bit more. But I'm outgunned on this one and the community has spoken. Looking forward to abusing the heck out of this again.
I agree. I preferred the changes to hitting, but obviously much of the community did not feel the same. I'll say it once again, we get requests for the game to be less arcade and then get complaints when that happens.
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:Obviously I'm in the minority on this, but I'm uncertain how anyone who wants this game to be sim would agree that accelerating from a body check attempt is favorable to a more nuanced and positional approach to body checking.
I don't consider the hitting mechanic to be perfect, but the recent change did add responsibility to the hitter which opened up the game a bit more. But I'm outgunned on this one and the community has spoken. Looking forward to abusing the heck out of this again.
I agree. I preferred the changes to hitting, but obviously much of the community did not feel the same. I'll say it once again, we get requests for the game to be less arcade and then get complaints when that happens.
I can't help but to think you guys are trolling sometimes..
Most people do want more Sim. I see what you're trying to do by suggesting if you want hitting you don't want Sim but that's simply untrue lmao! Offensive players puck handling is arcade, offensive players being unable to be knocked off the puck is arcade, offensive players puck possesion priority is arcade. Players that want more of a Sim style don't want hitting the way it is but it beats not having ANY advantage. You can't have the defense playing Sim style and the offense playing arcade and then when people complain you get upset/ say they don't want Sim lmao! The balancing in this game is atrocious.
Defense the poke check is in a really bad place and what is expected out of the defender to make a play is FAR more than what it takes for an offensive player to beat them.
A big problem with WoC is I'd say 80% of the community plays forward (I get it, scoring goals is fun) but then 80% of feedback is suggesting offense should be easier and defenders should have even less tools. To pass you can now simply press a button and it will have perfect accuracy now. The forward that the puck is going to does not have to turn to face the puck, he has no chance the puck will go through his legs, meanwhile both of those things can happen to the defensive player, often times even with a quick pick xfactor. This is why even people who have an interest in playing defense lose interest EXTREMELY fast in this franchise or switch to forward. Playing defense in this game is just trying to play the percentages, put yourself in a position, and pray you get the right animation. You're essentially an NPC doing a job.
If WoC is to get any better/ we WANT people to play with full clubs.. we need to make defense feel fun/ our skill gets rewarded more often/ a skill gap exists beyond positioning. I mean I think it helps some that CPU defenders are so bad but people STILL don't want humans because many humans are STILL worse. Humans are still worse because most players with any skill/ smart positioning are playing forward because it's just simply FAR more fun/ rewarding. Playing defense is just stressful in this game. You either get an animation or not. You don't feel like you're improving. You don't feel like you did something really good very often.
The easier and smaller the window of skill gap you have in this game the less fun and rewarding defense is gonna feel. Icon passing seemed REALLY uneeded. Lacrosse goals being so easy? Passes directly in front of the goalie being so easy? All uneeded.
The game also has an issue with attributes. Currently many players can deke with an avg deke rating. Defensive zone passing doesn't matter if you shoot the puck up. Close passing seems extremely hard to intercept when using the icon passing, even more so when it's on your forehand/ backhand. Hitting doesn't actually seem to matter very much at all. Strength? So offensive players are just min/ maxing what matters (speed) and able to do almost everything haha. I think adding attributes may help some.. maybe puck handling could allow the puck to roll off someone's stick a bit easier if they're doing a lot of backhand/ forehand or their shot accuracy coming off of that isn't as good? This could force players to be even more so pigeonhold to play a particular game or to be slightly less effective at having an all around game.
- @rsandersr47 Defensive attributes in particular don't seem to have the impact you would expect from maxing them.
This is all anectodal of course. I play defense almost exclusively (in CHEL clubs). I've tried numerous builds and combinations to see how they perform and I've reached the following conclusions:
- 92 (*or higher?) Defensive awareness (DA) offers no better performance than a lower rating. (*I haven't experimented with this one in a while because it was so ineffectual, so I can't remember how high I was able to put it, but I maxed it).
The offensive player almost always picks up loose pucks (like they have priority) despite having a significantly lower offensive awareness in comparison.
We all know how easily passes get through a well positioned defender. DA seemingly offers no assistance there either.
- 95 Stick Checking (SC) does appear to decrease penalty risk but is seemingly no more effective at actually dislodging a puck from a player than a lower rating.
I can cleanly poke the puck 2-4 times depending on how direct a player is approaching the net, but the puck will only be briefly knocked off their stick before they immediately regain possession (with no action or deviation required, the game does it auto-magically for them).
- 95 Shot Blocking does have an apparent effect when employing the crouch. Outside of the crouch it's no more effective than a lower value.
There's more of course, but these are the primary defensive attributes.
The argument against poke check effectiveness is that it's too effective and can be spammed.
Of course it's going to be effective if you are trying to carry a puck through a defender in good position. That's why you have all those dekes, passes, chips, and maneuverability as tools at your disposal.
You shouldn't expect to skate in a straight and predictable path with the puck and expect to maintain possession.
Except EA has fed into that expectation by continuously catering to it instead of addressing the issue with a reasonable approach, which should include education on using different tools to counter what is simply good defensive play.
Every instance where good defense should result in the advantage to the defender, is countered by design to tip the advantage back to the offense.
As for the poke check being spammed, that's a separate issue but only made necessary because it takes more than one to get a successful result. It would be simple to give the defenseman the advantage on the first pokecheck attempt (considering positioning and timing), then have a delay before they can make another attempt and/or increase the risk/decrease the effectiveness on subsequent attempts, because they no longer have the advantage of being in good position and reading the play with full control of their stick.
Defense gets the initial advantage but when the offense is able to overcome it, they gain the advantage. That would be a better balance and incentivize both sides by rewarding them for their ability to read and make a favorable play.
There have to be legitimate defensive threats to prevent attacking players from simply skating past unimpeded. They should be required to put as much thought, skill, and timing into their attack as required of the defender. @rsandersr47 So here is my take on this...
I do think that if you want the hitting advantage, you are indeed looking for a more arcade based game. Hitting numbers are way higher than the average game of hockey. As I stated in a different topic (Here ). Summarizing what I wrote the number of hits for my last 5 games before and after the nerf to hitting decreased by 30% (98-67) for Away and almost 50% (116-60) for home. When I took the games right before the allstar break (14 sample size) it was on average 18.5 for Away and 18.2 for Home so hitting for a 60 min hockey game was on average 36.7 hits for that night. If you divide that by 5, the TOTAL number of hits we should be having per 12 min game is roughly 7-8. Anyways its not supposed to be 30 per side. So yes Hitting is quite arcadey and should be not often seen in my opinion.
Personally I think the poke check gets most stuff done in the game right now. The stick can poke the puck away most times and I rarely have those moments where I poke the puck away from the carrier and they pick it right back up and skate past me. As long as you are skating backwards and maintaining good gap control, you can control what that skater does. Now the WoC statement I can totally agree with, majority of the player base is offensive and wants to play forward because scoring goals is fun and there have been certain things (spamming up on stick for one timers for example) that I have adamantly been against for awhile in these forums. That being said, you say that...
"The easier and smaller the window of skill gap you have in this game the less fun and rewarding defense is gonna feel."
But didn't reverting the hits like you want reduce said skill gap?!? If everyone can hit again, does that not mean that it takes less skill? the hitting nerf did create a skill gap in that you had to be much more precise with your hitting. Again stated elsewhere, I had no problems with hitting after about 10 or so games of play. It required an adjustment where you couldn't go for those big ice hits every time, and instead had to as I call it "tell a story" to set up the hits along the boards or in the middle of the ice but it was possible and still happening. What you couldn't do is blindly charge at someone who then tries to deke you only for the checking assist to hit said player when he and the puck have past by you and the game auto corrected the hit to be to the side of them to push the carrier off of the puck.
"Icon passing seemed REALLY uneeded. Lacrosse goals being so easy? Passes directly in front of the goalie being so easy? All uneeded."
Icon passing unneeded sure, but also ineffective. Most players are not using the icon passing as there is a delay and its not even 100% accurate since it is based on attribute rating so it doesn't even matter. I personally think it should get buffed to allow for easier one touch passing plays but another topic for a different day. I have maybe been scored on a lacrosse goal twice this year, and one I remember was completely my fault. It is very easy to defend against despite it being one button and they nerfed it so only the upper level danglers can really keep it on their stick the whole time. Passes directly in front is the only one I can agree with here as a defenseman as it is infuriating but in the end, it is the "path of least resistance" which humans will always seek out. It requires way less skill to just "send" something across the ice 100 times over because as long as it gets through one time, its a good chance to be a goal and that is the mindset of the people that play this way and their reasoning behind doing it. I would know since someone told me one day when I finally asked them why force so much. "The defense is never gonna be in perfect position and all it takes is that one pass to go through for a goal to get scored". He also stated that the game has a lot of randomness to it that it may just go in anyways. I was baffled by these statements from an above average skilled forward. I remember one game I played a team whose winger tried to do that to me the whole game just force it across to the other winger and also try to straight line over the blue. That person was shut down so hard I got a message from him calling me a pain in the * (former Teammate in a previous season of league hockey so it was in good fun but still). This was also a top guy that played in esports and who's team does place well, not enough for brackets but still solid.
" So offensive players are just min/ maxing what matters (speed) and able to do almost everything haha."
Yes they are indeed because that's the only way they can get separation in this game and speed is king. Part of that reason is because of how strong hitting currently is. That is why many people kiss the boards and use EE to ballerina skate back and forth, because the ice is so restricted in what you can do with the puck along the boards. Deking is barely an option as any time you deke you are stuck in the animation and therefore cannot do anything until it is completed (exception being toe drags). This allows the defender to get close up to you and knock you off the puck before you are able to pass or shoot. Deking also doesn't have an "assist" feature like hitting where it recognizes and adjust how to send the puck around the checker resulting in the stick blocking some dekes that should have been effective against your missed hit. Everything on the offense side is just as rough at times in fairness.
"The game also has an issue with attributes."
I couldn't agree more with this. The two biggest problems IMO is that we are playing NHL but have the attributes of a mid 70s player. The other issue I was going to mention in the speed comment but felt it applied more here. The categories that these attributes are grouped in make for only one play style to work. Now I may be in the minority on this one but having Speed and acceleration on separate categories makes it easy to create all builds. Max out speed, max out accel, max out agil, bring down all balance and shooting stats because they don't really have a point to them in comparison. I would love to see next year the grouping of them like it is in HUT. Accel/Balance/Agil/Spd/End all in one category and Wrist and Slap power/accuracy in its own. Than you can make up more choices. Do I sacrifice a little End for Accel? do I drop Bal for Spd? Am I going to be a wrist shot or a slap shot, or an even balance of them?
Anyways I am getting off topic here.
Just like you say "most play forward because SCORING GOALS is fun", I counter with "and others play defense because HITTING is fun".
Many people claim they want a "sim based" hockey game until they get it and then are immediately calling for the developers to be executed. When the stick check was so often causing penalties in the beginning of 19 or 20 people were outraged because they "cant poke anymore" meanwhile, we had been so programmed for years to close our eyes and poke the puck away with ease that we were not ready for such a change and didn't want to adapt to it. Many people claim they want a bigger skill ceiling but when something is implemented
Passing in 23 - made charged passing less effective and so you had to light pass when closer and charge when further... Community riots.
New shoving mechanic - Allows for opportunities to push players off the puck while maintaining your position when a hit is not the right option... People still want it removed completely.
One timers - Being more skill based by forcing players to wait for the puck to touch their stick, rather than up spamming... Again look here and see the anger despite the LT change to help.
Goalies Tether control scheme - requiring constant attention from the goalies to stay steady on the thumbstick while players cycled or be sniped on when caught... Goalie discords uproar.
Body checking being nerfed - requiring a more methodical attack to it and less of just full sending into a player.... topic of discussion right now.
These above are all changes to improve the skill ceiling of the game which I want nothing more than to see and it was met with nothing but constant criticism from the community. It's sad really because the community has made it impossible for a developer of this game to do any types of changes and it makes me wonder if the previous developers were right in not making any changes to their game. It makes me understand why the NHL24 discord has been scrubbed entirely. In the end you cannot please everyone so maybe the idea is to come out with a game and stick to it. Make it more arcade or more sim, pick one and stick to it because again you can't make everyone happy.
@hiperay Are you playing clubs or HUT? Because on HUT with the hitting nerf you could enter the zone with ease and ragg it in the corner with a 6ft6 forward and wait till the AI opens up. On HUT it was boring because the skill gap was essentially gone. Only form of defense was poking and blocking shots. If the hitting nerf actually worked like intended there wouldn't be a revert back.
I just play HUT so I can't speak on clubs but on HUT it was comical lol.
- @phomi99 No offense intended. If you enjoy HUT that's fine. It simply shouldn't be used as a measuring stick for gameplay mechanics, or at least in relation to player vs player interactions.
A single person controlling an entire team on the ice may need wider reaching and simplified methods in order to create a competitive balance, that would not necessarily translate well to a team where everyone controls an individual player.
For example, you can't rely on a CPU teammate to be in a good defensive position from the beginning of an attacking player's possession. Having a way to compensate for switching players and correcting position enough to deliver a hit, might require something like a "speed boost".
For a human controlled player, they are able to react and synchronize their movement to be in good position at all times. There's no split in focus to justify heavy corrective measures to compensate for a delay in the ability to react to a play. If they are out of position and unable to deliver an effective hit, they don't have the excuse of starting from a point of disadvantage.
Given that the two modes have different requirements, there should probably be a different standard applied to each mode. A major adjustment which benefits CHEL gameplay should not need to be reverted because it has a negative impact on HUT gameplay.
If both modes aren't similarly improved by the same changes, then those changes should not be applied to both modes.
- @hiperay This is the way I see it. Hitting does need changed.. however EA refuses to do anything to impede offense so hitting while VERY arcade makes it less so imo. It's like Rockstar adding crazy guns, and cars, and nukes that destroy any semblance of realism. The answer to bring back realism is to get rid of those things.. now of Rockstar or (EA here) refuses to do anything about the inherent advantages the offense has the only thing to do is to give the defense something.. Rockstar gives the CPU the ability to never run out of police/ army/ vehicles. When EA takes that away were left with Los Santos being defended by Reno 911. I mean on one hand you won't have an entire military force fighting one guy (or crazy hitting) but on the other hand it's every bit as arcade like. I mean look at any NHL advanced metrics such as the amount of time a player has possesion of the puck per possesion and then look at this game.. it may not track that but it doesn't take long to see the inherent advantages for anyone who watches real hockey then plays this game. I suppose my version of arcade is the final product and look of the game. If we just go by hit stats and stuff then yeah, it's bad. Until EA decides to do something about offense OR creates diff gameplay versions for diff modes it's gonna be in a bad place.
Sorry I haven't read all you've wrote I'm on base working so didn't have time yet.
Featured Places
