Community ManagerHey there, @RicochetII
Thanks for all the feedback. I just want to comment on a few things.
@RicochetII wrote:
1. Presentation: NHL uniforms, NHL equipment, NHL players, NHL arenas, etc.
In game (primarily in CHEL), those aspects are often completely ignored. Purposefully.
- Uniforms are discarded in favor of everything from hoodies to pajamas (or worse)
- Equipment gets the same treatment ignoring helmets/visors and including gloves, skates, and sticks with often silly designs
- Rinks that are a step below amateur in outdoor venues with none of the quality or atmosphere of an NHL arena
This isn't counting the alternate game modes which take some of these aspects even further.
WoC is a fantasy league. While NHL equipment is available, it's not required as this is the EASHL and not the NHL. The outdoor arena is meant to be a more casual environment where hoodies and jeans are more acceptable. Ones and Threes Eliminator are pure fantasy so you can have the casual, vanity gear. Again, these aren't NHL events.
2. Game Modes: NHL hockey is at it's core 6v6 on the ice, 5 skaters and 1 goaltender, with specific rules designed for the sport.
EA has introduced ones and threes "arcade" modes as well as the 3v3 watered-down version of NHL OT with its own set of rules.
These are secondary (or even inconsequential) to what is expected from an NHL series, which is 6v6 on-ice play with NHL rules, but they are given attention and dilute the userbase for what "should" be the primary focus. A robust and accurate representation of 6v6 NHL gameplay.
This is fair that it dilutes the userbase as people are in those modes because they are more fun for them. However, the hardcore players of these modes most likely aren't interested in 6v6 play with authentic rules. So, chances are good removing them wouldn't make as big an impact as it seems.
@RicochetII wrote:
3. Gameplay: NHL rules, physics, and player ability should be accurately represented.
The rules are more or less as expected in 6v6 (ignoring other game modes because the rules are often just made up or non-existent). There's room for improvement in the application of those rules (rather than just random chance when x and y occur). Perhaps we are not yet at a point technically where rules can be applied through an analysis of the physical interactions alone.
The physics themselves, as applied in game, create too many unrealistic situations. Solid objects passing through each other and pucks magnetized or otherwise influenced to remain in play are among the most egregious. Perhaps there are technical limitations involved here as well, but at the very least stick blades and pucks should be solid and have realistic interactions. "Pong" achieved that in 1972. There's no reason we can't have it in 2023.
With the stick and puck interactions resolved, other elements related to player abilities should be able to be resolved incrementally.
- Hitting interactions have been ramped up to market the game, but NHL players are more elusive and resilient than EA gives them credit for. They don't get rag dolled on legal body checks frequently and they don't stay down for more than a few seconds unless injured.
- Lacrosses and Hipchecks have been brought up continuously already and EA took some action, but it simply doesn't go far enough. You might see a hipcheck once a game (if that) and it's done with momentum against speed up the boards. Hitting is a skill and hip checks involve the most skill to pull off while requiring certain conditions to be present. The Lacrosse move has been successful maybe a handful of times and attempted maybe a few times a year. It also takes skill and a certain set of conditions, chief among those is an unaware goaltender and AI goaltenders should not be unaware unless those conditions are met. Having both of these as "one-touch" buttons completely ignores the skill aspect. They don't even require accurate setup or positioning.
- Generally speaking, every "flashy" but mostly realistic thing implemented in the game happens with exaggerated impact and/or frequency. While mundane things that very frequently happen in real life occur with less frequency. A player catching/intercepting a slapshot is rare (especially the catching part) and never as clean as the game represents. The puck deflecting over the glass on a shot happens a lot, but it slows down the game with more faceoffs, so it rarely happens.
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This is a video game. Clipping is going to happen. As it does in most other games. Since we don't have 1:1 fidelity with the stick, exceptions need to be made. For example, sticks are allowed to pass through players and objects, but they can't affect the puck. This is to reduce the chances of player limbs bending in ways that would break them. We've seen this happen occasionally with 24 and it has not been well received. So, it kind of goes to show that added realism isn't always a popular feature. When it comes pong, you're talking about a single block interacting with a single "ball". 2 singular objects reacting. They aren't dealing with limbs being attached while also holding a stick while also potentially interacting with other objects of the same nature. Hockey is infinitely more complex than Pong.
Again, this is a video game. Hits might be over the top at times. There are also times they are very realistic. Regardless, the point of the game is to have fun. Yes, there are some purists that want the game to be a 1:1 recreation of the real sport, but from what I've seen, the more real the game gets, the less it's liked. There need to be player attributes for example that add assistance to shooting, passing, hitting, etc. When we made a change to this a few years back, it made the community pretty upset because it became harder to score and accurately pass. We also frequently get comments saying NHL 14 played better. Which is far more of an arcade style game than NHL 24 as the physics are more realistic than they were 10 years ago yet some that claim they want a full sim game would rather have one that was less sim than what we have now.
I'm in agreement with hipchecks and Lacrosse moves. I'd rather those return to the way they were. Thankfully, the Lacrosse goal is pretty uncommon and the move is easy to defend to begin with.
EA hasn't made it clear, at least to me, what exactly this game is supposed to be and who it is supposed to be for. Perhaps they don't even know themselves.
I'd appreciate it if they would present a clear direction, at least for next year if they can't now. I'm no longer going to dive into the current product blindly.
As mentioned, this game isn't meant to be a full sim, recreation of NHL hockey. It's meant to have aspects of that along with an atmosphere that make it fun. I don't think we'll ever have a game that gives you that feeling of stepping on the ice and putting professional hockey skills to the test. What we want is a fun game for friends as well as solo players that the truly skilled can become masters of. Whether that's EASHL, Online Vs/HUT or offline modes. We have a very diverse playerbase so not everyone wants a full sim experience.
Thanks again for the feedback. It's absolutely appreciated.
First I want to reiterate that I'm speaking from my own perspective. There may be others who want different things and I accept that.
WOC/EASHL with the arcade modes and alternative presentation are fine, on their own. The box doesn't say WOC however, it says NHL. As such, I don't believe it's unreasonable to expect the experience to be NHL-centric.
HUT I'll give a pass to. It's essentially an NHL card collecting game, but it still has NHL presentation.
BAP gets a pass for presentation as well as Franchise, but those modes seem like an afterthought with the attention given to them.
I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that the EASHL is the flagship of the series however, so why is NHL branding being used to market what is being described as a "fantasy league". I would be wrong to expect a fairly realistic representation of the NHL in an "EAGames - World of CHEL" product. That could be just about anything. This series however, is "EASports - NHL".
Again, I don't know if I'm in the majority, but I expect a 6v6 experience that is reasonably similar to the NHL. Club was close at one point and drop-in was still reasonable, but the "fantasy" elements are increasing and degrading the experience. You could avoid most of the outdoor play in "casual" attire in Club, but now we have things like Werewolves.
The hope from the playerbase was for the experience to improve with time and future iterations, but that doesn't appear to be the goal for EA.
The issue with other game modes isn't simply detracting from the playerbase. They are also taking away attention and resources from the primary game mode(s) before it has the refinement and population to warrant additions.
There's also a side effect of players "learning" arcade elements and then expecting those in "realistic" game modes. Regular 3v3 for example, develops players to play as individuals and gives them time and space. Then they go into 6v6 and they are unable to adapt to having less room or playing as a team, so they perform poorly and go back to 3v3.
This game is killing its own 6's playerbase by actively promoting bad teamplay and poor development of players.
The players aren't interested in authenticity because you make them feel "special" in diluted representations of the sport instead of emphasizing or promoting the knowledge and skills which will allow them to succeed in a realistic setting.
I don't think we necessarily are far apart on the technical/physics aspects. I realize it is more complicated than the "Pong" analogy to have everything function realistically without obstacles. My point was that paddles (sticks) and ball (puck) are the most rudimentary requirement. Get that right first, then build on top of it without destroying the fundamentals of using a stick to move a puck.
There are "cheats" in use that direct the puck, where the movement of the puck should be pure and it should be the sticks determining the direction and velocity, while everything else is modified or adjusted around it. If that means an arm clipping through a body, it is preferable to a stick clipping through a puck or a puck clipping through anything at all. An arm looking weird isn't ideal of course, but it doesn't affect the gameplay and make you feel "cheated" like an unexpected physical interaction with the puck does.
" I don't think we'll ever have a game that gives you that feeling of stepping on the ice and putting professional hockey skills to the test."
Perhaps not, but should that not be the goal? There should be a steady progression towards something, and that's kind of my point.
Which leads me back to, What is EA's goal? Where do they see this series heading?
To me, as long as it says NHL on the cover, it should be heading in a sim direction which is exactly what you describe, "The feeling of stepping on the ice and putting professional hockey skills to the test".
If they put CHEL on the cover with a stated goal of creating "The most entertaining hockey game" or similar, I'm perfectly okay with that as well.
People can make educated decisions in either direction, I'm only saying the direction should be clear.
Many are holding onto hope of getting that sim experience. If there's never going to be movement in that direction, be open about it.
There's a market for a sim game and there's a market for an arcade game, but you aren't going to please both with the same product and you don't have the playerbase to do each separately.
I hope that was clear and again, not intending to rant or complain.
I want one of two things:
1) EA works on improving the NHL presentation and realism
2) EA works on making a fun but not necessarily realistic hockey game
I'm good with either as long as I can make an informed decision and temper my expectations accordingly.
What I don't want is simply a muddled middle ground with no indication in either direction.
You can't even use the casual shirts, hoodies, etc that you buy for 6s drop in anyway...so I don't get why they are not bringing back NHL teams and arena for 6s drop in, it was SO much better and use the casual gears for One, Threes, and 3s, you can't go wrong with this, you still have a big use of the casual gears and outside rinks while satisfying the one that prefer NHL equipement and arena for 6s. It's neither all the way casual or NHL, you get both....sound logical that they would make more poeples happy that way. The best of both world!
