NHL Team
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@thebrazenhead75 wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:What's your point? We get requests for features to return very frequently. Which often, doesn't happen. This time it did though. Seems like a win for the community as it's been requested since launch.
I meant what was the point of EA changing it the first time?!
It wasn’t a problem before and the community liked it so EA thinks they know best and changes it. Then the community says they want it back so EA changes it back. That’s the problem a lot of the community has with EA. They “fix” things that aren’t “broken” all the time instead of fixing the things that actually are broken.
The new control system is another example. Nothing that wrong with the old one besides maybe a couple of adjustments that were needed. But let’s make it all about accessibility. I rather have something that is harder to do but is more rewarding than something that is easy to do yet unfulfilling.Obviously it’s a video game but imagine if in the real NHL every player had the same abilities to do all the same skills, dekes and whatever else? That would make it a very unrealistic and unsatisfying league IMO.
I don't know if it was a bug or if it was intended. If it was intended, why not try it out? We've had a lot of comments over the years that the game is just a copy and paste with updated rosters. Then again, we also hear how NHL 14 was perfect and we should just release that again and update those rosters. The sport of hockey is largely unchanged over the last 20 years. Yet, we're expected to either rehash a game from 10 years ago or recreate it and make it feel like a brand new game every year. Both of those scenarios are unrealistic. What is realistic is changing things up. That can mean removing features, modifying existing ones or adding new ones. Changing mechanics, updating modes, updating graphics and audio, etc. Yeah, it isn't always well received. We have to take some chances though.
Accessibility is huge. We need to make a game that appeals to as large an audience as possible. You want the game to grow? Making it more accessible and drawing in a bigger playerbase is going to do that. Look at Madden and FC. Those have a huge, worldwide following. Hockey has a worldwide following as well. On a far smaller scale though. If you want the truly brand new game that represents a 100+ year old sport that sees little change year to year, it's got to grow. Limiting ourselves to the hardcore, sim, veteran crowd is not the way to do that. I've made it well known that I'm not a fan of the changes to controls. However, I'm glad we also made the game more accessible and drawn in players that otherwise wouldn't have been there. We all adapted when the skill stick controls were introduced. We can all adapt to the new controls. And if those new controls are unfulfilling, use the old ones. It's not like you're forced to use Total Control. Yes, Skill Stick had it's own changes, but it's also harder to use so maybe they would be more fulfilling for you.
The online community that asks for a sim game doesn't realize there's a bigger audience out there. If we only made a game that catered to that community, you'd see far less change year to year as the much lower sales wouldn't allow us to make the changes we do each year. Most likely, we'd be limited to fixing bugs and updating rosters. And if that's all you want, then I go back to my statement of the demands for a new game are more the demands for a rerelease of NHL 14. Today's casual, one button Michigans are tomorrows hardcore players. We all started with easy controls on a casual level and look where we all ended up? Some turned that passion into a career as an influencer. Some became world champs. In my case it put me here every day talking to you all. A lot of the people that make this game are here because they started playing it when they were kids. These forums are full of people that were once casual fans that have grown far beyond that.
I get this years game isn't exactly everyone's bag of pucks. There were a lot of big changes. We've had a huge amount of feedback from you all and that is going to help shape the future of this game. We'll keep trying to find ways to keep you all having fun regardless of being a grizzled veteran or someone stepping onto the ice for the first time.------------------
I'm sorry you and the team are so misguided if you believe that a more sim game doesn't lead to a larger audience not a smaller one.
There has never been a sim hockey game, every year the game is arcadey. It's even more arcadey now than it has ever been. People want simulation style games. They want to replicate the sport they see on TV and the assertion that they don't is why this game gets disliked. If you have a passionate fan base word of mouth sells your game as we bring people into it. Making an arcade game and hoping people like it doesn't do that. It's just not correct in what brings people into video games I'm sorry. The highest selling games are hardcore that brings in casuals because the fanbase is rabid. You can see it with every game that gets big. They have arcade visuals with hardcore systems of gameplay.
In sports games you cite Madden and FC and for years they have gotten bad community reviews yet they still sell because the sports are popular not because the games are great. You literally own the rights to football it's the only football game people can play. Madden sells because of that. NHL is the same way. You are the only hockey game on the market. You get sales because of that. Not because your gameplay is amazing.
@llamaverox wrote:In sports games you cite Madden and FC and for years they have gotten bad community reviews yet they still sell
This is because people post and spread unfavorable "reviews" after they spend $100+ on a new HUt/FUT/MUt team and take a few losses.
When people spend money and expect to win and they don't, they're going to bash the game relentlessly and obsessively. It perfectly explains the reasoning as to why someone who "hates" the game, "will never buy it" and thinks "it will never get better" spends countless hours on all social channels for said game trying to convince anyone who will listen to agree with them.
Also, sports games change year after year. New Mechanics, New controls... if a certain segment of the population doesn't master the new controls and begin dominating the leaderboards "like they did last year" - then they think all of the changes are garbage and start bashing the game, posting poor reviews etc in some weird attempt to delfect any responsibility from actually learning new mechanics.
Obligatory - I Don't think the game is perfect. I'm not saying everyone who posts complaints or bad reviews is a butt hurt HUt bunny - Be a Pro, Franchise.. I don't play them but there are legit complaints about years long bugs in those modes.
My point being - sports games from any company are always going to have a subset of users who will obsessively spend their time arguing that the game sucks and insist everyone see things from their point of view, otherwise you're just a 'shill'
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:In sports games you cite Madden and FC and for years they have gotten bad community reviews yet they still sell
This is because people post and spread unfavorable "reviews" after they spend $100+ on a new HUt/FUT/MUt team and take a few losses.
When people spend money and expect to win and they don't, they're going to bash the game relentlessly and obsessively. It perfectly explains the reasoning as to why someone who "hates" the game, "will never buy it" and thinks "it will never get better" spends countless hours on all social channels for said game trying to convince anyone who will listen to agree with them.
Also, sports games change year after year. New Mechanics, New controls... if a certain segment of the population doesn't master the new controls and begin dominating the leaderboards "like they did last year" - then they think all of the changes are garbage and start bashing the game, posting poor reviews etc in some weird attempt to delfect any responsibility from actually learning new mechanics.
Obligatory - I Don't think the game is perfect. I'm not saying everyone who posts complaints or bad reviews is a butt hurt HUt bunny - Be a Pro, Franchise.. I don't play them but there are legit complaints about years long bugs in those modes.
My point being - sports games from any company are always going to have a subset of users who will obsessively spend their time arguing that the game sucks and insist everyone see things from their point of view, otherwise you're just a 'shill'
That is completely your own opinion. I don't buy madden because the game is bad. Not because I take a few losses. NFL 2k5 is compared to madden every year and 2k5 is better in many aspects a now 20 year old game is a better simulation of football than a 2024 video game and it's extremely obtuse to suggest it's because people lose games of FuT. Please don't gaslight legitimate concerns about gameplay for a series that consistently ranks in the 60's on metacritic and an average 1.2 from the community on metacritic.
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:In sports games you cite Madden and FC and for years they have gotten bad community reviews yet they still sell
This is because people post and spread unfavorable "reviews" after they spend $100+ on a new HUt/FUT/MUt team and take a few losses.
When people spend money and expect to win and they don't, they're going to bash the game relentlessly and obsessively. It perfectly explains the reasoning as to why someone who "hates" the game, "will never buy it" and thinks "it will never get better" spends countless hours on all social channels for said game trying to convince anyone who will listen to agree with them.
Also, sports games change year after year. New Mechanics, New controls... if a certain segment of the population doesn't master the new controls and begin dominating the leaderboards "like they did last year" - then they think all of the changes are garbage and start bashing the game, posting poor reviews etc in some weird attempt to delfect any responsibility from actually learning new mechanics.
Obligatory - I Don't think the game is perfect. I'm not saying everyone who posts complaints or bad reviews is a butt hurt HUt bunny - Be a Pro, Franchise.. I don't play them but there are legit complaints about years long bugs in those modes.
My point being - sports games from any company are always going to have a subset of users who will obsessively spend their time arguing that the game sucks and insist everyone see things from their point of view, otherwise you're just a 'shill'
That is completely your own opinion. I don't buy madden because the game is bad. Not because I take a few losses. NFL 2k5 is compared to madden every year and 2k5 is better in many aspects a now 20 year old game is a better simulation of football than a 2024 video game and it's extremely obtuse to suggest it's because people lose games of FuT. Please don't gaslight legitimate concerns about gameplay for a series that consistently ranks in the 60's on metacritic and an average 1.2 from the community on metacritic.
I've seen people give 1 star because they couldn't figure out new controls. Reviews in the gaming industry mean nothing.
Only thing you can do is monitor community feedback and rectify any issues you see that are trends and make sense to the vision of the game. This NHL they cracked down hard on all the glitch goals which was much appreciated. Hopefully next year they tackle the META like big goalies, skill zoning defense, AI, and hitting mechanics.
It's the best NHL we have had in a while.
@phomi99 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:In sports games you cite Madden and FC and for years they have gotten bad community reviews yet they still sell
This is because people post and spread unfavorable "reviews" after they spend $100+ on a new HUt/FUT/MUt team and take a few losses.
When people spend money and expect to win and they don't, they're going to bash the game relentlessly and obsessively. It perfectly explains the reasoning as to why someone who "hates" the game, "will never buy it" and thinks "it will never get better" spends countless hours on all social channels for said game trying to convince anyone who will listen to agree with them.
Also, sports games change year after year. New Mechanics, New controls... if a certain segment of the population doesn't master the new controls and begin dominating the leaderboards "like they did last year" - then they think all of the changes are garbage and start bashing the game, posting poor reviews etc in some weird attempt to delfect any responsibility from actually learning new mechanics.
Obligatory - I Don't think the game is perfect. I'm not saying everyone who posts complaints or bad reviews is a butt hurt HUt bunny - Be a Pro, Franchise.. I don't play them but there are legit complaints about years long bugs in those modes.
My point being - sports games from any company are always going to have a subset of users who will obsessively spend their time arguing that the game sucks and insist everyone see things from their point of view, otherwise you're just a 'shill'
That is completely your own opinion. I don't buy madden because the game is bad. Not because I take a few losses. NFL 2k5 is compared to madden every year and 2k5 is better in many aspects a now 20 year old game is a better simulation of football than a 2024 video game and it's extremely obtuse to suggest it's because people lose games of FuT. Please don't gaslight legitimate concerns about gameplay for a series that consistently ranks in the 60's on metacritic and an average 1.2 from the community on metacritic.
I've seen people give 1 star because they couldn't figure out new controls. Reviews in the gaming industry mean nothing.
Only thing you can do is monitor community feedback and rectify any issues you see that are trends and make sense to the vision of the game. This NHL they cracked down hard on all the glitch goals which was much appreciated. Hopefully next year they tackle the META like big goalies, skill zoning defense, AI, and hitting mechanics.
It's the best NHL we have had in a while.
We just flat out disagree, I think it's the worst nhl game I've played for 1v1, there are still a few glitch goals, and the gameplay is not fun to me as the AI continues to be horribly designed with trying to switch with players. I am in a community of players in 6s league and the overwhelming consensus with one or two outliers is the game is horrible. This is not just a few people it's 8/10 if not more of the people I play with.
@llamaverox wrote:We just flat out disagree, I think it's the worst nhl game I've played for 1v1, there are still a few glitch goals, and the gameplay is not fun to me as the AI continues to be horribly designed with trying to switch with players. I am in a community of players in 6s league and the overwhelming consensus with one or two outliers is the game is horrible. This is not just a few people it's 8/10 if not more of the people I play with.
There aren't any glitch goals. AI issues are mostly related to human controls and mistakes. Anyone playing in a 6s league doesn't think the game is horrible. They may tell everyone who will listen that "the game sucks" but they're literally playing the game. They've bought the game. They're putting in effort to track stats of the game. They're likely promoting on social media to get people to join their league to play the game. They go to the effort of coordinating amongst 6 people to play the game. They're literally telling EA, "I like this game, keep it coming" every single time they dish out $$ to play the game.
If someone hates a game, then why do they keep playing it?
And before we get all "tHiS iS tHe oNlY hOcKeY gAmE oN tHe mArKeT" - just stop. Nobody is forcing you to play this game.
The game clearly has a myriad of issues that plague all of the modes. There's no doubt about that. But this constant drumbeat of "everyone I know hates the game too" while simultaneously continuing to purchase it, play it, organize around it and generally enjoying it daily is just evidence that most of the "outrage" is performative hivemind stuff.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:We just flat out disagree, I think it's the worst nhl game I've played for 1v1, there are still a few glitch goals, and the gameplay is not fun to me as the AI continues to be horribly designed with trying to switch with players. I am in a community of players in 6s league and the overwhelming consensus with one or two outliers is the game is horrible. This is not just a few people it's 8/10 if not more of the people I play with.
There aren't any glitch goals. AI issues are mostly related to human controls and mistakes. Anyone playing in a 6s league doesn't think the game is horrible. They may tell everyone who will listen that "the game sucks" but they're literally playing the game. They've bought the game. They're putting in effort to track stats of the game. They're likely promoting on social media to get people to join their league to play the game. They go to the effort of coordinating amongst 6 people to play the game. They're literally telling EA, "I like this game, keep it coming" every single time they dish out $$ to play the game.
If someone hates a game, then why do they keep playing it?
And before we get all "tHiS iS tHe oNlY hOcKeY gAmE oN tHe mArKeT" - just stop. Nobody is forcing you to play this game.
The game clearly has a myriad of issues that plague all of the modes. There's no doubt about that. But this constant drumbeat of "everyone I know hates the game too" while simultaneously continuing to purchase it, play it, organize around it and generally enjoying it daily is just evidence that most of the "outrage" is performative hivemind stuff.
I'm not buying it again. Many of the people I play with are not as well. So let's get that out of the way right now.
It is the only hockey game on the market. I don't think you understand why I or many others play the game. I love the sport of hockey, I love the 6s dynamic of teamplay what I don't like is being annoyed at playing the video game of the sport I love. So yeah, to answer your question I'm done. The game is horrible. Hopefully when I get it on gamepass for free next year to test it out it's better. They aren't getting 70+ from me anymore.
I'd like to point out that anyone not finding issues with the game in a 6v6 setting are mostly due to the fact these are usually highly tuned leagues that outright ban certain abilities and every single person on the ice has a min/maxed build based around their exact position and, usually, have mics to communicate and uphold accountability for position -- Once you introduce even 1 single AI player this all falls apart and you see how bad the game is for the vast majority of players. It's easy to talk from your high horse dedicated Defensive Defenseman with 99 stick check and awareness when you still have a decked out Sniper, Grinder, and Playmaker backing you up, y'know?
Most of the EASHL community plays 3v3 hockey usually with just 2v2 humans a side - even if it's 3v3 you still have AI goalies which are beyond garbage. You are all forced to create jack of all trades builds which seriously hamper the ability to play "properly". You are forced to play "out of position" and the AI just cannot handle it. At this point, the AI is messing up, not the humans so you can see the issue this causes.
0 anticipation, 0 accountability, 0 learning ability from the AI makes the game so bad. I don't need them to be amazing or even good; I just want them to not be beyond useless/an actual detriment to the game.
The term "glitch goal" gets thrown around so much it's lost all meaning. Look, I don't mean it's a literal glitch, just that certain goals are a major problem. If I can basically guarantee something will be a goal, like a 95+ % chance of going in, something is seriously wrong and that needs to be addressed for balance reasons. I'm talking just make the "% chance the goalie will make a save on a left right left deke wrister slider" was shifted over just 5 extra percent, not make them literally impossible or give you an automatic game ejection. Small and deliberate changes are so much better than knee jerk huge changes.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:I'd like to point out that anyone not finding issues with the game in a 6v6 setting are mostly due to the fact these are usually highly tuned leagues that outright ban certain abilities and every single person on the ice has a min/maxed build based around their exact position and, usually, have mics to communicate and uphold accountability for position -- Once you introduce even 1 single AI player this all falls apart and you see how bad the game is for the vast majority of players
Because those players are good at making videogame decisions, but terrible at making hockey decisions. The AI is programmed to play hockey. Most sweaty elites are making decisions based on a videogame. These two don't jive and you'll always see griping about the A.I.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:0 anticipation, 0 accountability, 0 learning ability from the AI makes the game so bad.
This is so wrong. I don't think the AI 'learns' in the sense that it is keeping a database of analytics and then using that information to adjust on the fly. However, it does have anticipation and I think many people ignore it or don't see it because they're too busy blaming the AI for everything.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: If I can basically guarantee something will be a goal, like a 95+ % chance of going in, something is seriously wrong and that needs to be addressed for balance reasons.
You're making gross generalizations here. I highly doubt there are a lot of incidents that you can guarantee a goal is going in, outside of a penalty shot/breakaway. When it comes to those plays, the player has already made an error in letting the opponent get that close to their net.
@llamaverox wrote:I don't think you understand why I or many others play the game. I love the sport of hockey, I love the 6s dynamic of teamplay
This isn't a unique or profound viewpoint or something difficult to understand. That's why we're all here.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
I'd like to point out that anyone not finding issues with the game in a 6v6 setting are mostly due to the fact these are usually highly tuned leagues that outright ban certain abilities and every single person on the ice has a min/maxed build based around their exact position and, usually, have mics to communicate and uphold accountability for position -- Once you introduce even 1 single AI player this all falls apart and you see how bad the game is for the vast majority of players
Because those players are good at making videogame decisions, but terrible at making hockey decisions. The AI is programmed to play hockey. Most sweaty elites are making decisions based on a videogame. These two don't jive and you'll always see griping about the A.I.
I'm just saying that full human teams bypass most gameplay related issues. Sure, there are still controls, the fact the playable surface is actually slightly above the ice which can cause puck issues, clipping etc. etc. to contend with, but at the end of the day, most grading and positional awareness is on the player.
As a 2v2 player I'm forced to play the game different than what the game/devs expect and am punished for it. Balance should be centered around the fact its a video game that has a meta. If you want a more authentic experience you should be playing offline with custom sliders.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:0 anticipation, 0 accountability, 0 learning ability from the AI makes the game so bad.This is so wrong. I don't think the AI 'learns' in the sense that it is keeping a database of analytics and then using that information to adjust on the fly. However, it does have anticipation and I think many people ignore it or don't see it because they're too busy blaming the AI for everything.
Offline has a literal AI learning slider - They are more than capable of noticing if a player has a bias going to one side or taking a certain shot. The old CM said introducing something like that could be exploited but the AI has already been hard countered years ago -- they literally don't defend on purpose. The goalies are absolute garbage, not even at par with beer league hockey. They have no "do not dump" command. They literally try to cover zones that shouldn't be covered. They use a 6v6 logic system in 3v3 which is completely asinine as it causes the 3rd man (assuming 2v2 humans) to take the role of 3rd attacker, even with all defensive settings, etc. etc.. You can't honestly sit there and say they cant drastically improve AI - I have posted numerous videos showing just how bad they can be.
Awareness, anticipation, and learning are fundamental parts of real hockey so what I'm asking for isn't crazy. We're still playing with AI that hasn't improved in over a decade.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: If I can basically guarantee something will be a goal, like a 95+ % chance of going in, something is seriously wrong and that needs to be addressed for balance reasons.You're making gross generalizations here. I highly doubt there are a lot of incidents that you can guarantee a goal is going in, outside of a penalty shot/breakaway. When it comes to those plays, the player has already made an error in letting the opponent get that close to their net.
I'm just trying to make my point more simple but yes there are tons of ways you can almost guarantee a goal. My clubs are always top 50 and we've played/beaten every time you can think of.
- Cross creasers
- One timers from the circles
- Stop and go on the AI to force them moving to one side ao you can easily score on goalie
- Certain build types and L2 combos that negate hits allowing for you to just get up close on a goalie
There are tons of ways outside of just penalty shots and forced breakaways to get scoring opportunities. You're talking about a game where literally even a 1mph shot from behind your own net has the ability to freak the other goalie out and score on himself - there is plenty to fix
Ahhh so I made an error when I have the puck, all alone, and my AI on defensive settings, is in the neutral zone, chopping and slashing, and grinding people along the boards for penalties in 3v3?
My error blocking an easy cross cross only to find that the puck slid under my stick?
My bad when the AI D man literally just stands there for 2 seconds after ever faceoff?
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
As a 2v2 player I'm forced to play the game different than what the game/devs expect and am punished for it.
I don't think the A.I. has been upgraded enough to facilitate all of the decision making involved in 3v3. That said, I don't understand why you think you're being 'forced' to play the game differently than the devs expected and then go on to say you're actively being punished for that?
It's quite simple; The AI wants you to be positionally perfect. If you slightly deviate, they will adjust and/or expose themselves. If you play with the ai enough, you can learn to anticipate when they're going to make a pass or change positions and adjust accordingly. This is part of the skill of the game (learning to work with ai). I'm not quite sure what happened where everyone expected the ai to be absolutely perfect regardless of human decision-making.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:- Cross creasers
- One timers from the circles
- Stop and go on the AI to force them moving to one side ao you can easily score on goalie
- Certain build types and L2 combos that negate hits allowing for you to just get up close on a goalie
Cross-creasers are not glitch goals. Even when you aren't considering the literal meaning of the word glitch. Let's say 'always' or 'go-to' goals. Cross creasers are the direct result of defensive deficiencies. You can't let skilled players execute a pass and uncontested one-timer and have the expectation that it should be stopped more often than not. Those are good goals because it's ALWAYS the result of a defender making a bad decision.
One-timers from the circles.. again.. not an 'always' or 'go-to' goal, unless you're a team that has become skilled at forcing players to make bad defensive decisions.
Stutter step to throw the A.I. off - this is known by even the offline communities as a method to throw off the a.i. It's also a real-world tactic that works wonders to get a step on an opponent. I understand the susceptibility of the CPU to fall victim to this is rather unrealistic and that could be improved upon, however, if you're a team relying on an a.i. defender - you need to learn to anticipate these actions and adapt. Again, that's part of the skill of this game if you're relying on a.i.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: Ahhh so I made an error when I have the puck, all alone, and my AI on defensive settings, is in the neutral zone, chopping and slashing, and grinding people along the boards for penalties in 3v3?
This scenario doesn't happen as often as you may think. There's clearly an issue with CPU taking penalties, especially in 3v3. However, I'm certain that there's a human element to CPU taking agressive actions on non-puck carrying opponents. I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what the human actions is that results in a CPU taking a penalty, but I've got some evidence and theories around that subject. Once I can nail down the theory, I'll present it here for sure.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: My error blocking an easy cross cross only to find that the puck slid under my stick?
My bad when the AI D man literally just stands there for 2 seconds after ever faceoff?
Sometimes, in real life, players can think they're blocking a lane but the puck goes under their stick, blade, etc. It happens. I can block 90% of the cross-crease attempts I see developing by getting into the passing lane and actively facing the puck carrier and/or engaging the anticipated recipient to disrupt their shot or pass reception. Relying on LB to crouch and block a lane has never been the best method, especially with xfactors and such that add auto-sauce.
And again, the bug with the ai standing there is well-known and I wish it would be fixed, but it's clearly not intended behaviour.
The game is messy in 1v1 and it has no consistency in 6v6. Mike even said as much in response as showcased in a video from my friend llamapen. I just don't think the game is close to good shape right now.
@KidShowtime1867
To compete at a competitive level, especially when you start break the top 100 on the leaderboards, you need to play the game and meta, not your typical structured play NHL hockey -- If you play positionally sound with an AI player on the ice, the other humans will exploit them literally doing nothing to defend and yes, get those guaranteed glitchy cheese goals. The dev's intention is apprently to make a fun sport really lame and unfun to play -Whether you're a sim guy or not, the competitive community as a whole clearly doesn't want to play that way.
All I'm asking for is a new strategy or ability to tell them to f off and not bother with trying to "cover" me. I don't like to have to babysit the AI and crystal ball how they want to calculate what I'm doing at every moment when I'm a little preoccupied with how a guy with 4,000+ goals is setting up for his bread and butter. Besides, I've already shown how overboard they go with trying to cover defensemen along the boards - they are literally trying to correct what they think are my mistakes when they are actually their own.
I want the AI to play positionally perfect too. I need them to stop dumping the puck on a powerplay. I crave for them to stop waiting for me to cross the blue line before passing.
Defenders don't have nearly as many tools as offense does and that is the main issue I bring up every single year. The controls are slow and the offense has so much more flexibility. I don't want everyone to just have 99 stick check and defensive awareness to compensate; I definitely crave some real skill gap. On an AI you can definitely force a goal on a cross crease or slap from the circle beyond what is normal in a real game of hockey - why else do you see people go for what is already a high % shot and duck back out to the sides to get their set play going? I'd take 95% "guarantee" over an 85% chance any day.
All it takes is one moment of zigging instead of zagging and a team can force the ai goalie to shift into the wrong spot and it works 100% of the time - learning that isn't necessarily a skill, its exploitation that needs addressing -- Instead of focusing on the left right left of the carrier, maybe the goalie should have noticed the other guy setting up for the reception for the last 15 seconds.
As for the puck going under sticks - I've shown multiple videos spanning multiple years how the playable surface and ice don't actually align. Full block animation down, stick and glove on the ice, the puck can still clip underneath and that is total BS which hasn't even been looked into - i'm not talking about saucing over it. I've shown multiple screenshots of goalies sprawled out, literally hovering an inch above the ice - these should never have been issues in the first place.
I'm not talking about a random stutter step reaction - I'm talking about doing self passes and deking at very specific times to freeze the AI in place or deke around the net to initiate "ok the human has now reach exactly 12.7374 inches behind the left side of the net so I should now look away and skate to this exact spot" calculation that you can pass through for easy shots. These situations are exactly why I, the human, am "out of position" because these turkeys are too stupid to realize they are playing right into the other team's hands.
If something is "clearly an issue" then FIX IT. It's 3v3 like wth - those cause penaltie shots which in turn cause pretty much guaranteed goals. That is gameBREAKING. That is not something the devs should be proud to present to anyone. They even claimed to fix it only for even more penalties to occur...
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
As a 2v2 player I'm forced to play the game different than what the game/devs expect and am punished for it.I don't think the A.I. has been upgraded enough to facilitate all of the decision making involved in 3v3. That said, I don't understand why you think you're being 'forced' to play the game differently than the devs expected and then go on to say you're actively being punished for that?
It's quite simple; The AI wants you to be positionally perfect. If you slightly deviate, they will adjust and/or expose themselves. If you play with the ai enough, you can learn to anticipate when they're going to make a pass or change positions and adjust accordingly. This is part of the skill of the game (learning to work with ai). I'm not quite sure what happened where everyone expected the ai to be absolutely perfect regardless of human decision-making.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:- Cross creasers
- One timers from the circles
- Stop and go on the AI to force them moving to one side ao you can easily score on goalie
- Certain build types and L2 combos that negate hits allowing for you to just get up close on a goalieCross-creasers are not glitch goals. Even when you aren't considering the literal meaning of the word glitch. Let's say 'always' or 'go-to' goals. Cross creasers are the direct result of defensive deficiencies. You can't let skilled players execute a pass and uncontested one-timer and have the expectation that it should be stopped more often than not. Those are good goals because it's ALWAYS the result of a defender making a bad decision.
One-timers from the circles.. again.. not an 'always' or 'go-to' goal, unless you're a team that has become skilled at forcing players to make bad defensive decisions.
Stutter step to throw the A.I. off - this is known by even the offline communities as a method to throw off the a.i. It's also a real-world tactic that works wonders to get a step on an opponent. I understand the susceptibility of the CPU to fall victim to this is rather unrealistic and that could be improved upon, however, if you're a team relying on an a.i. defender - you need to learn to anticipate these actions and adapt. Again, that's part of the skill of this game if you're relying on a.i.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: Ahhh so I made an error when I have the puck, all alone, and my AI on defensive settings, is in the neutral zone, chopping and slashing, and grinding people along the boards for penalties in 3v3?This scenario doesn't happen as often as you may think. There's clearly an issue with CPU taking penalties, especially in 3v3. However, I'm certain that there's a human element to CPU taking agressive actions on non-puck carrying opponents. I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what the human actions is that results in a CPU taking a penalty, but I've got some evidence and theories around that subject. Once I can nail down the theory, I'll present it here for sure.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote: My error blocking an easy cross cross only to find that the puck slid under my stick?
My bad when the AI D man literally just stands there for 2 seconds after ever faceoff?Sometimes, in real life, players can think they're blocking a lane but the puck goes under their stick, blade, etc. It happens. I can block 90% of the cross-crease attempts I see developing by getting into the passing lane and actively facing the puck carrier and/or engaging the anticipated recipient to disrupt their shot or pass reception. Relying on LB to crouch and block a lane has never been the best method, especially with xfactors and such that add auto-sauce.
And again, the bug with the ai standing there is well-known and I wish it would be fixed, but it's clearly not intended behaviour.
Even with using a Sniper with defensive abilities on D, I’m very good at defending 2 on 1’s and cross creases. But the elites with their X factor shooting abilities are too much sometimes to overcome especially considering the law of averages. I can only stop so many getting worn down to the point of eventually making mistakes. That doesn’t happen with them though. They don’t get worn down and eventually make mistakes the more they attempt them. That’s when it becomes a losing battle especially in 3’s with an AI G. I play the puck carrier and they’ll just dish it off to their teammate for an easy one timer. I anticipate that pass and the shooter then easily snipes the AI G. All I can do is keep telling my forwards to prevent less turnovers that create these 2 on 1’s and to back check hard when they do.
@phomi99 wrote:
@llamaveroxOh yea well clubs is garbage. I'm talking about HUT. They don't care about clubs so I don't bother with it either.
I think the game is even worse in hut at the moment. It's so cheesy.
I don't think the game is broken, per se. I think it's just a frustrating game to play at times. A lot of times, the issues in the game aren't even particularly obvious. So, you won't know exactly why the game is frustrating; you just know that it is.
Just as an example, there's an issue in the game where the goalies will constantly face the puck and thus inadvertently turn and expose part of the net, letting goals in that should've been stopped. Most players probably don't notice this, but it's an issue, one of many, in the game that can lead to frustration.
I myself am not the best player in the world, but I am in the top 100 for goalies. So, I would think that I know reasonably well how to play the game.
I like to go into the pro-am mode and play on the hardest difficulties, namely against the hall of fame teams. Despite me being primarily a goalie who doesn't play forward, I can still go in and skate circles around the aI players and put up double hat tricks most games.
Some will say, "if you don't like the game, then why are you still playing it?", as though there aren't people who HAVE quit playing. Just speaking from personal experience, I've gone from playing 3 or 4 games every night to maybe playing a couple of times a week because the game has become more frustrating to play than it is fun. At this point, I probably spend more time on this forum than I do actually playing the game it's dedicated to.
Perhaps it's a waste of my time to discuss so much a game that I don't enjoy anymore, but I'm hopeful that the game developers will read my criticism, along with the criticism from others on this forum, and take it to heart and use it to create a better game in the future.
Community Manager
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 I'd also like to point out, I've made several post in this forum of games I have won where I am pointing out significant flaws in what I consider to be bad gameplay. My issues with this game are consistency and the lack of simulation. Losing a game because the game lacks consistency. Is not fun. What also isn't fun? Winning games because of it. I have not had only a handful of games where I felt good about winning it, because it feels cheesy to score in this game. You have to cheese the goalies to score. You don't cheese them going for the same 3 or 4 ways to score you aren't scoring. Which is just badly designed gameplay. We just plainly disagree that the issues with this game are related to losing,
Can you give me examples of consistency? Having every scenario play out the same every time doesn't sound very simulation with hockey being the dynamic sport that it is.
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:
I want the AI to play positionally perfect too. I need them to stop dumping the puck on a powerplay. I crave for them to stop waiting for me to cross the blue line before passing.
These frustrate me to no end as well. I play EASHL 5s, though our LD only plays occasionally, so often time we have an AI defender. I try to be realistic, its going to be impossible for them to make AI that--while using the same ruleset as a human player--can read the play as effectively. However, there are definitely some mind bogglingly bad habits that should have been smoothed out of the game ages ago. Some go back a few years:
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@llamaverox wrote:
@KidShowtime1867I'd also like to point out, I've made several post in this forum of games I have won where I am pointing out significant flaws in what I consider to be bad gameplay. My issues with this game are consistency and the lack of simulation. Losing a game because the game lacks consistency. Is not fun. What also isn't fun? Winning games because of it. I have not had only a handful of games where I felt good about winning it, because it feels cheesy to score in this game. You have to cheese the goalies to score. You don't cheese them going for the same 3 or 4 ways to score you aren't scoring. Which is just badly designed gameplay. We just plainly disagree that the issues with this game are related to losing,Can you give me examples of consistency? Having every scenario play out the same every time doesn't sound very simulation with hockey being the dynamic sport that it is.
Things you have already said are not issues, such as sticks going through bodies and pucks and players keeping the puck.
When trying to defend passing lanes, pucks going right through players, as offense has 100% puck pickup on passes but defense is completely out to dry on it.
Stick lifts going right through sticks despite being in proper position, and sometimes even getting the sound for a stick lift and it still being a penalty.
Phantom cross check and elbows just because the game wants more drama.
AI literally standing still on the breakout creating pylons you have to avoid.
There are so many little issues that pop up that are frustrating. Give me a simulation game one year and I promise it outsells the arcadey games your team are producing.
Also a simulation game means an in depth franchise mode that has meaning for winning stanley cups, part of what makes franchise mode not fun is it is barebones. You win a stanley cup there is no tangible difference between that and being the first overall pick. There needs to be systems in place, like the radio calls of be a pro need to be in franchise mode. Have prestiege of your teams matter as far as free agents or salary negotiations. There are so many little things that would make a more meaningful game.
https://youtu.be/pxE8oGbasIs?si=FM_4bIVe7F45BHhf
This video does a good job of showing it.
The responses from community members on this forum are so out of field for what Mike says.
@llamaverox wrote:When trying to defend passing lanes, pucks going right through players, as offense has 100% puck pickup on passes but defense is completely out to dry on it.
Not true. Although there are some clips showing a puck phasing through a stick blade, the defensive victimhood of "the offense has 100% puck pickup" is not going to get you better outcomes in these scenarios.
You can absolutely be in a passing lane and guarantee 100% interception if you properly position your player in order to do so. If you can't, then you engage the intended recipient. Defence 101.
@llamaverox wrote:Stick lifts going right through sticks despite being in proper position, and sometimes even getting the sound for a stick lift and it still being a penalty.
If an errant stick lift is executed, it will phase through the opponent's stick and if the stick lift animation comes into contact with the opponents geo, it has a high chance of triggering a penalty sequence. The solution: get better at positioning yourself for stick lifts. Don't use it as a reactionary escape when you've been stripped of the puck. It may work 1/20 times, but the other 19 times - you're at serious risk for a penalty. Many of us have adjusted and can see now that this responsibility (stick lifting) and subsequent penalties have opened the game up more.
@llamaverox wrote:Phantom cross check and elbows just because the game wants more drama.
Another piece of misinformation. This just isn't true. At all. I'm not sure if it's because many of you are unfamiliar with game development or just aren't aware of basic logic, but the penalty sequence isn't actually eyeballs on a referee executing reasoning on what they're "viewing' in front of them. These are black and white, 1's and 0's decisions. X animation with penalty keyframes activated, calculation of penalty chance based on attributes, player position etc.. execute penalty sequence, yes or no. There are no phantom calls, because the body check animation needs to be activated in order to call a cross check or elbowing penalty.
@llamaverox wrote:AI literally standing still on the breakout creating pylons you have to avoid.
Maybe because the a.i. expects passes on the breakout whereas 99% of the player-base is simply skating full speed, end-to-end trying to force a cross crease? It's also why people complain about AI offsides so much - steamrolling through the neutral zone is not a typical play but literally almost every single player implores this tactic more often than not and they wonder why the a.i. "is so brutal'. Again - human errors contributing to poor ai play.
@llamaverox wrote: Give me a simulation game one year and I promise it outsells the arcadey games your team are producing.
This is a sim. Many offline players have sliders they share that give a great experience. Online and competitive environments will never be 'sim' in terms of sliders. You need those modes to be accessible and fun to everyone while striking a balance with players who want more depth. It's tough.
