NHL 24 Gameplay Tuner Updates - May 23rd, 2024

@KidShowtime1867There is question about it, your analysis is based on ideal scenarios, when this happens every game.From all manner of distances.

There is a world of difference between how the game should be played and how it is actually played (at least, at a semi competitive level).

In my experience, there isn't a whole lot more the defender can do. Sure, you can go down for a pass block attempt but we all know how slow and clunky that is - the moment you take your finger of the buttons you're locked into a completely useless state for about a second and the one-timer would work normally. You normally bombast a user for attempting the hit in a scenario like this -- the groundwork to real/proper defense should be line of sight.

This certainly isn't as rare as you're suggesting Aljo but at the end of the day does that really matter? We have been whining and arguing back and forth about this for years and nothing is even done to address it at all. Is there really, absolutely, positively, zero way to at least make these clips look better visually? Different animations, more unique ways of tracking the puck with limbs or leniency towards net battles?

We don't need to worry about the defender getting tripped because that would mean nerfing something for the offense - Playing D has been a Sisyphus Sim for years now

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@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:

We don't need to worry about the defender getting tripped because that would mean nerfing something for the offense - Playing D has been a Sisyphus Sim for years now

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The same would apply to defense. A scramble to slap a puck out of the zone on the PK could result in a trip if they accidentally hit the opposing player's skate that is also going for the puck. I'm just saying, it would cause a lot of very frustrating moments that wouldn't really add anything to the game. Until we have 1:1 control over the player we're controlling, animations are going to be needed.

I personally think the bigger issue is just how easy it is to offensively give and receive passes but yes, losing momentum upon collision would make things interesting - Of course that would force an obscene amount of new animations, tracking, and saves to be created to the point it's unfortunately not entirely worth it. Without them I see the goalie becoming even more of a floppy chicken out there.

The problem with these new builds is the feeling of choice. Yes, of course it was just the illusion of choice back in '14 with "fully" customizable builds, but you actually felt like you could fine tun to your exact specifications; these new ones are much more restricted: Perfect for the 5v5 and 6v6 crowd, but definitely not balanced (or at least fun) for other modes like 3v3.

You've completely forgotten about Ones, Eliminator has an extremely clear meta akin to the old 3on3 Arcade game just without goalie hitting, and Pro-AM really doesn't matter.

It's so strange to me that even after using boosters, some builds still can't even get maxed out stats that actually play into their unique traits/strengths.

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@PlayoffError wrote:
@TTZ_Dipsy The obvious solution to me would to have the offensive player's stick either bounce off or just stop when it makes contact with the defender's leg. Just don't allow shot animations to phase through players.

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I'm sure we could base whether or not a trip is caused on the offending player's discipline as well as the overall force of the attempted shot. Regardless, it seems like it would interrupt the flow of the game too much as I could see this happening very frequently. Unfortunately, without more precise control of the stick, we're going to need the stick to pass through bodies and objects at times. This has definitely gotten better over the years. It's just still not at a point where we can have full contact without causing more frustration than fun.

I think the thing about the sim vs arcade thing is that, at the end of the day, this is still a video game, and so it's not going to be 100% representative of real-life hockey. The goal would be trying to find a balance where the game is still fun and flows very well while also not being cartoonish.

Currently, I think the game looks and feels like the end fight of Captain America: Civil War. Games look like 10 superheroes are flying around with their X-Factor powers. I'm mildly surprised there isn't a giant blue laser beam shining down at center ice.

I'd like to see more diversity in the builds used in the game. Currently, the meta is to use a puck-moving defenseman at around 6'/160 lbs. with gold elite edges and some combination of close quarters/tape to tape/one tee. Most competitive 6s/3s players use some variation of that kind of build, and it's understandable because there's really no reason to use any other kind of build. 6s/3s is all about maxing out your speed and bee-lining until you're in range for close quarters to activate, or forcing a pass. It's incredibly dull. 

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

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@PlayoffError wrote:
@TTZ_DipsyThe obvious solution to me would to have the offensive player's stick either bounce off or just stop when it makes contact with the defender's leg. Just don't allow shot animations to phase through players.

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I'm sure we could base whether or not a trip is caused on the offending player's discipline as well as the overall force of the attempted shot. Regardless, it seems like it would interrupt the flow of the game too much as I could see this happening very frequently. Unfortunately, without more precise control of the stick, we're going to need the stick to pass through bodies and objects at times. This has definitely gotten better over the years. It's just still not at a point where we can have full contact without causing more frustration than fun.

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I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  I don't see where tripping comes into it.   I'm not advocating for sticks never passing through bodies and objects, it's definitely a necessary evil.    But in this case I don't see how gameplay would become more frustrating if a shot animation that causes the shooters stick to pass through a defender's body would result in the shooter not interacting with the puck.  

In an ideal world I'd prefer that the shot animation would be interrupted and the stick just stop when it comes into contact with defender's body.  This would both stop the shot and prevent the shooter from picking up the puck immediately after the shot animation finishes once their stick is in a position it should never get to in the first place.

That's not likely to be feasible any time soon.  My second option would be to allow the shot animation to play out as it does now, but to not allow the stick to make any contact with the puck on the other side.  This would at least not allow 'impossible' shots to occur.

In general I'd just like to see more consistency.  If I'm skating without the puck my stick will regularly interact with other players as if they're both physical objects.  This is good IMO.  I've posted and seen other people post videos of defensive plays that don't quite look right and often the answer is that their stick touched another player's stick or body which prevented them from interacting with the puck.  A bit frustrating, but it's consistent so it at least can be understood. 

But on offence shot animations can phase through bodies and still get the shot off and players with the puck can just move their stick through defenders at will.  The slight loss of possession they get is so short that it effectively doesn't matter in far too many cases.  I've advocated before that the time between when a player with the puck's stick passes through a defensive player and when they can interact with the  puck again needs to be lengthened somewhat.  It's just too short right now IMO.

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@PlayoffError wrote:My second option would be to allow the shot animation to play out as it does now, but to not allow the stick to make any contact with the puck on the other side.  This would at least not allow 'impossible' shots to occur.

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People would be here raging with their zoomed-in instant replay clips of shot animations not connecting with pucks, with no understanding of the underlying logic in why that happens. We see this regularly now with the liberties taken with phasing in terms of stick effectiveness. 

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@PlayoffError wrote:

I've posted and seen other people post videos of defensive plays that don't quite look right and often the answer is that their stick touched another player's stick or body which prevented them from interacting with the puck.  A bit frustrating, but it's consistent so it at least can be understood. 

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But it's not understood. Many people here see these scenarios play out and insist EA is out to screw them, despite being given an explanation as to why these things happen in today's game.

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@PlayoffError wrote:

But on offence shot animations can phase through bodies and still get the shot off and players with the puck can just move their stick through defenders at will.  The slight loss of possession they get is so short that it effectively doesn't matter in far too many cases.  I've advocated before that the time between when a player with the puck's stick passes through a defensive player and when they can interact with the  puck again needs to be lengthened somewhat.  It's just too short right now IMO.

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This I agree with. 

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@PlayoffError wrote:
@KidShowtime1867The community not initially understanding something isn't a reason not to do it. It just means that there needs to be more of an effort to educate players on why things happen they way they do. Doing this in a clear and constructive fashion goes a long way. 

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You're not wrong, but in the face of taking a sweaty HUT or EASHL club loss on a play that was affected by EA having to take liberties with physics, the player(s) will always default to blaming the game and insisting it's broken and needs to be fixed. 

EA can explain why things happen until they're blue in the face, but if enough people on social media drum up enough hatred and performative outrage over a design decision that adversely affects their current playstyle or, god forbid, requires additional learning of a new mechanic, it gets patched and reversed. 

In today's climate of instant "outrage" and the virality of the hivemind - EA can't make huge changes to the game without fear of affecting the baseline of yearly sales. They're at the mercy of the loudest most entitled population of gamers that's ever existed. (And I don't mean NHL specifically, I'm talking the general population of today's gamers)

That said, even on these forums - you have to handle everyone with little kid gloves or else they cry about being "bullied". They can bully developers about how much their game "sucks" and how much it's "broken" and how they're "never going to buy it ever again" and how they "have never seen hockey played in their life" but the second someone claps back and says "hey maybe you could learn this mechanic a little better" it's all "oh stop abusing me". 

My point being, the average user doesn't care about under-the-hood design choices meant to keep the game balanced, with the side-effect of having unrealistic sequences play out. All they see and react to is what plays out. Being on the bad side of an outcome, 9/10 users will insist they are playing 'perfectly' and the "game decided" to give the bounce to their opponent. Then they come here, or twitter, or Reddit to find like-minded folks to generate some 'outrage' in an attempt to get their perceived issue 'fixed'. Anyone who disagrees is a shill, is downvoted, blocked and/or reported to moderators for being 'combative'. 

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@PlayoffError wrote:

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

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@PlayoffError wrote:
@TTZ_DipsyThe obvious solution to me would to have the offensive player's stick either bounce off or just stop when it makes contact with the defender's leg. Just don't allow shot animations to phase through players.

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I'm sure we could base whether or not a trip is caused on the offending player's discipline as well as the overall force of the attempted shot. Regardless, it seems like it would interrupt the flow of the game too much as I could see this happening very frequently. Unfortunately, without more precise control of the stick, we're going to need the stick to pass through bodies and objects at times. This has definitely gotten better over the years. It's just still not at a point where we can have full contact without causing more frustration than fun.

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I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  I don't see where tripping comes into it.   I'm not advocating for sticks never passing through bodies and objects, it's definitely a necessary evil.    But in this case I don't see how gameplay would become more frustrating if a shot animation that causes the shooters stick to pass through a defender's body would result in the shooter not interacting with the puck.  

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When I was talking about tripping, it was in regards to the stick reacting to hitting the skate when they shot at a loose puck. Instead of passing through the skate, one outcome could be causing a trip. I think passing through the body is the better outcome as a high amount of unintended tripping calls would be very frustrating.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@PlayoffError wrote:
@KidShowtime1867The community not initially understanding something isn't a reason not to do it. It just means that there needs to be more of an effort to educate players on why things happen they way they do. Doing this in a clear and constructive fashion goes a long way. 

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You're not wrong, but in the face of taking a sweaty HUT or EASHL club loss on a play that was affected by EA having to take liberties with physics, the player(s) will always default to blaming the game and insisting it's broken and needs to be fixed. 

EA can explain why things happen until they're blue in the face, but if enough people on social media drum up enough hatred and performative outrage over a design decision that adversely affects their current playstyle or, god forbid, requires additional learning of a new mechanic, it gets patched and reversed. 

In today's climate of instant "outrage" and the virality of the hivemind - EA can't make huge changes to the game without fear of affecting the baseline of yearly sales. They're at the mercy of the loudest most entitled population of gamers that's ever existed. (And I don't mean NHL specifically, I'm talking the general population of today's gamers)

That said, even on these forums - you have to handle everyone with little kid gloves or else they cry about being "bullied". They can bully developers about how much their game "sucks" and how much it's "broken" and how they're "never going to buy it ever again" and how they "have never seen hockey played in their life" but the second someone claps back and says "hey maybe you could learn this mechanic a little better" it's all "oh stop abusing me". 

My point being, the average user doesn't care about under-the-hood design choices meant to keep the game balanced, with the side-effect of having unrealistic sequences play out. All they see and react to is what plays out. Being on the bad side of an outcome, 9/10 users will insist they are playing 'perfectly' and the "game decided" to give the bounce to their opponent. Then they come here, or twitter, or Reddit to find like-minded folks to generate some 'outrage' in an attempt to get their perceived issue 'fixed'. Anyone who disagrees is a shill, is downvoted, blocked and/or reported to moderators for being 'combative'. 

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What's your solution then?  Never make any significant changes to the current game?  That will just enrage the people who are convinced that EA just releases the same game with a roster update each year.   People who want to be outraged about the game are going to find a reason to do so regardless of what you, I or EA does.  They're never going to be satisfied, so it doesn't make sense to allow them to dictate how the game is developed. 

EA, and us here on these forums should be making more of an effort to reach the people who can be reached.   If someone makes a post complaining that some aspect of the game is 'broken' there needs to be more of an effort to understand what the root of their issue is.  Far too often people are jumped on for using the wrong word to describe their problem and the discussion is off the rails before it even begins.   If people are given a chance to further explain what they think is wrong then a discussion can be had about why what their seeing is or isn't intended behaviour and from there further discussion about what they might want to see in the future can occur. 

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@PlayoffError wrote:

EA, and us here on these forums should be making more of an effort to reach the people who can be reached.   If someone makes a post complaining that some aspect of the game is 'broken' there needs to be more of an effort to understand what the root of their issue is.  Far too often people are jumped on for using the wrong word to describe their problem and the discussion is off the rails before it even begins.   If people are given a chance to further explain what they think is wrong then a discussion can be had about why what their seeing is or isn't intended behaviour and from there further discussion about what they might want to see in the future can occur. 

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I very frequently ask for feedback so it can be relayed to the team. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. If someone is claiming the game is broken, or if it's just a rant saying the game is bad with no actual details, chances are good they're not being constructive so that's largely going to be ignored. Those that do provide actual constructive, mature feedback get it taken more seriously and it gets passed on. There have been a lot of good discussions with usable feedback. We've acted on a lot of this, as you can see in the patch notes. 

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the criticism here is often times overly simplistic or just insulting the game devs. I mean, when someone posts, "nhl bad make it different u suck", what exactly are Aljo and the game devs supposed to do with that? 

I post a lot of my criticism on here, but I generally try to be as detailed as I can with what the issue is and why I think it's occurring. We need more detailed criticism with screenshots and game clips and less "this game bad 0/10" type posts.

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@PlayoffError wrote:

What's your solution then?  Never make any significant changes to the current game? 

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That would be ridiculous. 

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@PlayoffError wrote:

People who want to be outraged about the game are going to find a reason to do so regardless of what you, I or EA does.  They're never going to be satisfied, so it doesn't make sense to allow them to dictate how the game is developed. 

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I agree, but the current state of social media allows these users to commiserate with hundreds or thousands of others, reinforcing their 'opinions' so much so that they see it as fact. This can generate a "social media backlash" that sales & marketing departments don't want. 

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@PlayoffError wrote: If someone makes a post complaining that some aspect of the game is 'broken' there needs to be more of an effort to understand what the root of their issue is. 

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Again, you're not wrong. I'm the #1 proponent of people posting clips rather than walls of text. That is an effort in understanding the root of a user's problem. Furthermore, I used to go to extensive efforts to look frame by frame at issues presented here and that is yet another effort in understanding that 99% of the people here don't do. When I respond with a long-winded breakdown of a clip, that's an effort to make the OP understand. More often than not, however, they're not posting clips to get told how they can get better or how they can get the game to give them the outcome they want more often. They're posting clips to be agreed with, and when I pop into a thread pointing things out that OP may have done better - they're always unwilling to accept it. They just want to be told "you're right, the game is broken in the way you think it is". There's no discourse. 

Just like some of us need to do a better job of understanding a user's issue, the user is responsible for communicating those problems clearly. Creating a topic like "this game is unplayable" with the content eluding to how the new hitting controls "suck" gets us nowhere. 

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@PlayoffError wrote: If people are given a chance to further explain what they think is wrong then a discussion can be had about why what their seeing is or isn't intended behaviour and from there further discussion about what they might want to see in the future can occur. 

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Users always have the ability to further explain what they mean by providing clips from their console. There is no reason, this day and age, to not provide a game clip of an issue you've experienced if you consider id game breaking. PS5 and XBOX make it stupid-easy to capture gameplay and there are tutorials here on how to do it. 

A user coming to the forums to post an encyclopedia's worth of text about an in-game scenario does literally nothing to contribute actual feedback. It also does nothing when that user becomes incredibly defensive when asked to provide a clip. It does nothing when the user denies what is happening in the clip just because it may be pointed out they made a small mistake. 

So, I don't agree that people aren't given a real chance to explain their issues. Being held to task over a claim that the game is "broken" is not the same as disallowing them the right to further explain themselves. In fact, it's an opportunity for them to clarify things. It's okay for us to hold each other responsible. If some users are going to take any pushback on their claims as "bullying" - then maybe announcing their opinions on a public forum isn't something they should be doing. 

https://youtu.be/o5xUk4ksHN0?si=9QJZVZKt5oi43DR-

Explain this one, this was a longer clip of me standing him up but, I should of recorded the whole sequence but this is the main part I find stupid.

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@llamaverox wrote:

https://youtu.be/o5xUk4ksHN0?si=9QJZVZKt5oi43DR-

Explain this one, this was a longer clip of me standing him up but, I should of recorded the whole sequence but this is the main part I find stupid.

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What's stupid about it? The two of you are jostling for possession and position. 

At one point, you're in a perfect position to execute a stick lift but you choose to actively skate away from the situation:

There's a few frames at the beginning of the battle where you've successfully knocked the puck loose but you're continuing to actively skate in the opposite direction, right into your opponent:

Users with the faster twitch-skill will win in these scenarios because they're quicker to recognize when possession has been knocked loose and/or obtained. It's a real skill to have when playing competitively. 

The Anaheim player in this scenario is showing a slow response to what's happening whereas the other player is patient and sticking with the puck and gets the better of the loose puck because of the Anaheim player skating away from it. 

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@llamaverox wrote:

https://youtu.be/o5xUk4ksHN0?si=9QJZVZKt5oi43DR-

Explain this one, this was a longer clip of me standing him up but, I should of recorded the whole sequence but this is the main part I find stupid.

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What's stupid about it? The two of you are jostling for possession and position. 

Users with the faster twitch-skill will win in these scenarios 

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True. Definitely some wonky stick on body incidental, though.

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@llamaverox wrote:
@llamaveroxI have body position I should have the puck. That's what's stupid about it.

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Yes, you had body position at one point but chose to continue skating into your opponent. Your opponent reacted to the loose puck slightly sooner than you did but you both reach the loose puck at the exact same time, which is where the jostling begins:

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@llamaverox wrote:
@llamaveroxYou also highlight the one point his stick is on the puck and not the 2 seconds before it where mine is on the puck.

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During the battle and jostling, your player does not have possession of the puck at all. 

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@PackBeak wrote:

True. Definitely some wonky stick on body incidental, though.

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100%. It's not perfect.