EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerNHL 24 Presentation Deep Dive
Hey, NHL Fans! Today we have released the Presentation Deep Dive. Check it out below!
Forum Discussion
For the online players, looks good, audio is a nice improvement for everyone but offline...
Honestly, I just don't get the logic of not having goalie stats but somehow reckoning that capturing whatever a goalscorer posts on his Instagram is far more important for offline play.
But it does sum up the direction of the game. The Flex Moment is designed to take you out of the rink action and force you into some Social Media bizarro world. Technically speaking, the transition is disjointed and unnatural. An immersion breaker. Please EA, look at the comments under the YouTube vid, the topics here or reactions on Operation Sports. The majority of commenters are not keen on this at all. Screw up the satisfaction of scoring and you kill enjoyment in any sports game.
An instant improvement would be to have kept the Flex Moment for the milestone goals only... then by their rarity, the actual scene becomes a reward, even something to look forward to. Game Design 101. Give the player an incentive to keep doing the same thing. But having it after every single goal... it quickly becomes annoying and the supposed "bunch of pixels", that's your player models EA, remains a far more palatable model.
The whole "customers demanded broadcast cam back" is disingenuous. It *was* in 23 and EA patched it out, compromising a feature customers had already paid for. So now the original cam is back alongside the newer version. Why they couldn't have done that in the first place rather than using it as a de facto selling point 10 months later is beyond me... but maybe I've just answered my own question.
EA_AljoCommunity Manager
Community ManagerI don't know that I'd call the return of the old True Broadcast camera being mentioned as a selling point. It's more being stated as part of our focus on listening to the community. We've been told many times that we're ignoring community feedback and are working to turn that around.
As far as the flex cam goes, we're trying some new presentation features. Again, one of the big pieces of feedback we get is that the game is a copy and paste with updated rosters. Leaving everything the same as it's been previously doesn't help with that. I agree we should highlight the milestone goals better though.
Appreciate the feedback. Thank you.
I personally really like the flex moment goals , I feel the problem it has is the teammates just clutter around and follow the goal scorer with no emotion , if the other players were giving each other fist bumps and pats on the helmets while skating backwards then 1 player turns and another skating straight type a thing it would look alot better, but overall I think it's a really cool feature , maybe if possible you can let the dev team know and see if they can add some emotion to the other 4 teammates on the ice? Just a suggestion, overall 5 stars
I an happy to see new face scans (the more the better) and the new ice projections look great too. I also like the new co-commentator Cheryl, she sounds good. Glad to see the goal replays again in offline modes. And I am also excited about the new customization, sounds promising tough.
Somehow the intros could be longer. Well, the pressure meter circle is still present, an option to toggle it on/off would be nice.
Appreciate the reply Aljo, I don't want to sound overly negative, I get the need to freshen things up, I just think the main issue that has plagued the series for the few years is the lack of choice and certainly from an offline perspective it's that the new features or design decisions often clobber things that weren't broken or even in need of freshening up. When teams have had the same two goalie masks for 5 years and more with exactly the same scoreboard since 20 but we're getting animated sweaters, the hockey guy mind boggles and just exacerbates C and P accusation.
Back to choice though. The big issues the last few cycles have been the removal of presentation, the strategy issue and Broadcast cam. If players could have chosen to keep all three, then things would be a whole lot more positive. The Flex moment falls into this zone immediately. It's divisive and the best way to solve that is choice.
If the trailers had shown everything they have shown thus far but also clearly stated: don't like the pressure meter on ice? you can turn it off. Don't like the flex moment? You can turn it off... well, I think the reception would be overwhelmingly positive.
@Rigu7 wrote:Appreciate the reply Aljo, I don't want to sound overly negative, I get the need to freshen things up, I just think the main issue that has plagued the series for the few years is the lack of choice and certainly from an offline perspective it's that the new features or design decisions often clobber things that weren't broken or even in need of freshening up. When teams have had the same two goalie masks for 5 years and more with exactly the same scoreboard since 20 but we're getting animated sweaters, the hockey guy mind boggles and just exacerbates C and P accusation.
Back to choice though. The big issues the last few cycles have been the removal of presentation, the strategy issue and Broadcast cam. If players could have chosen to keep all three, then things would be a whole lot more positive. The Flex moment falls into this zone immediately. It's divisive and the best way to solve that is choice.
If the trailers had shown everything they have shown thus far but also clearly stated: don't like the pressure meter on ice? you can turn it off. Don't like the flex moment? You can turn it off... well, I think the reception would be overwhelmingly positive.
Many of the goalie masks are still in from NHL 06! It's only when teams change logos/colors that they are updated.
Also, agree with all of this. More choice = better experience for more people.
- @darkryd3r You know my site, I listed what I found 😉
@EA_Aljo wrote:I don't know that I'd call the return of the old True Broadcast camera being mentioned as a selling point. It's more being stated as part of our focus on listening to the community. We've been told many times that we're ignoring community feedback and are working to turn that around.
Don’t get me wrong I do appreciate the fact that EA is communicating and listening to feedback more. I don’t want to sound overly negative here either, but hopefully this team is able to listen to all feedback, not just remove or change features and bring them back based on backlash to prove that they listen.Part of the statement about “ignoring the community” includes making major changes just for the sake of making changes without any data proving it will result in a positive change and not having to deal with that backlash in the first place.
There have been so many questionable changes and removals to the offline world the last few years, I think step one to listening would be find out what we want in the first place. Offline players often feel ignored because they don’t feel EA has a good pulse on what they want, having to reintroduce so many features kinda justifies their complaints.
- @darkryd3r They look nice for sure, but If they only will be 22 new, they would be the fewest ever. Last year think was 25, years earlier bit more than 30.
- EA_Aljo
@Beauts90 wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:
I don't know that I'd call the return of the old True Broadcast camera being mentioned as a selling point. It's more being stated as part of our focus on listening to the community. We've been told many times that we're ignoring community feedback and are working to turn that around.
Part of the statement about “ignoring the community” includes making major changes just for the sake of making changes without any data proving it will result in a positive change and not having to deal with that backlash in the first place.
We make changes with the intent to improve the game for you all. Obviously, we're not going to make everyone happy. We have acted on a lot of the community feedback and we're also adding our own design presentation elements. I really don't think we're ever going to add everything that's being requested. In no way does that mean we're ignoring you. There are a ton of requests and it's impossible to make everyone happy. Gameplay is always going to take priority over presentation. As I mentioned before, with most people wanting to play the game rather than watch it, we have to have that as the bigger focus. That doesn't mean we can't achieve both, but it means those finer details with presentation have to wait.
Personally, what I am wondering about though is, do you want a game where everything looks the same as you see on TV? This is just a personal curiosity. For me, I already watch a ton of hockey on TV. I guess I want the game to offer something a bit different that gets me more immersed in an activity that I'll never play out in the real world such as playing hockey on TV, on the NHL level, being a superstar, etc. I already know what it's like to sit on the couch and watch a game. I'm more interested in trying to live out the on-ice action. Adding something like the flex cam amps up that excitement and adds another layer of immersion.
I'm not saying an authentic, true to life broadcast wouldn't be cool though. I really dug the intros with Doc and Eddie with the arena fly-bys. I'd love to see teams coming out of the tunnel and taking the ice as well as goalie stats, real on-ice projections, etc. We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the coming years.
- @EA_Aljo The flex came is the complete opposite of immersion, What NHL arena dims the lights, turns on a spotlight, has someone skate out onto the ice with a camera, for every goal celebration home or away?
Make it for GWG's or milestones, like how you get the extended celebration in 22 for milestones. It'd feel more fresh. Although an option to turn it off/ remove any pressure meter presentation from the ice/ boards would work just as well lol it's probably allot easier to implement. - EA_Aljo
@bg0vzeyqov1y wrote:
@EA_Aljo The flex came is the complete opposite of immersion, What NHL arena dims the lights, turns on a spotlight, has someone skate out onto the ice with a camera, for every goal celebration home or away?
Make it for GWG's or milestones, like how you get the extended celebration in 22 for milestones. It'd feel more fresh. Although an option to turn it off/ remove any pressure meter presentation from the ice/ boards would work just as well lol it's probably allot easier to implement.That's my point. Not everyone has the same requirements for immersion. Also, I'm just saying what works for me personally, as a longtime fan of this game. I've been playing it for the better part of the last 30 years. I don't mind changes to the formula that provide an experience that I can already get by watching games on TV. That said, my main interest is gameplay. I'm already very focused on the on-ice action and controlling my player/team so presentation isn't really something I'm too concerned with since I'm very focused on strategy, how my opponent is playing, what habits they have with faceoffs, where they're taking their shots from, etc. Again, not knocking how cool it would be to have a totally authentic representation of what you see on TV though.
@EA_AljoGameplay is the core of the game offline or online so I agree that the main focus should be gameplay, I want the CPU to shoot the puck more/ the players to not skate into the boards or into to each other, etc.
The biggest reason why people are up in arms about the presentation I think is cause you see this kind of replay every game, after every goal, like how in franchise mode your players will all keep their hair the same exact length their entire careers. Or how Carrlyn would keep talking about the exact same x-factors, every game. The only way to turn off x-factor replays/ her dialogue in 22 was to remove every single x-factor from every player, that's horrible game design.
People want the visuals/ presentation to feel as fresh, variable for as long as possible, options in videogames (gameplay/ hiding UI elements, settings etc.) should be included as much as possible in any game made nowadays, It's the best way to tailor a game towards as many people as possible.- EA_Aljo
@bg0vzeyqov1y wrote:
@EA_Aljo Gameplay is the core of the game offline or online so I agree that the main focus should be gameplay, I want the CPU to shoot the puck more/ the players to not skate into the boards or into to each other, etc.
The biggest reason why people are up in arms about the presentation I think is cause you see this kind of replay every game, after every goal, like how in franchise mode your players will all keep their hair the same exact length their entire careers.
People want the visuals/ presentation to feel as fresh, variable for as long as possible, options in videogames (gameplay/ hiding UI elements, settings etc.) should be included as much as possible in any game made nowadays, It's the best way to tailor a game towards as many people as possible.That's fair. I get seeing presentation elements over and over again can get stale. Especially with how much many of us play this game. It would be cool if the players could age up over their careers or try out different looks. That would probably not be too high a priority though as there are much bigger requests.
I would really love a UI with customizable elements though. Turning on and off various elements would certainly be great. Hopefully, we'll see this happen. - @EA_Aljo The listening to feedback (ex. hybrid controls returning) the focus on gameplay itself, even giving us offline players a future plan of any sort has been a great welcome change!
I so badly want to see the entire community, offline and online, enjoying these regardless. Hope as many changes as possible can come to these games, that makes me want to spend even close to 90$CAD again like I did for 22 lol I very much want to not fall out of love with hockey games!
@EA_Aljo wrote:We make changes with the intent to improve the game for you all. Obviously, we're not going to make everyone happy. We have acted on a lot of the community feedback and we're also adding our own design presentation elements. I really don't think we're ever going to add everything that's being requested. In no way does that mean we're ignoring you. There are a ton of requests and it's impossible to make everyone happy. Gameplay is always going to take priority over presentation. As I mentioned before, with most people wanting to play the game rather than watch it, we have to have that as the bigger focus. That doesn't mean we can't achieve both, but it means those finer details with presentation have to wait.
Personally, what I am wondering about though is, do you want a game where everything looks the same as you see on TV? This is just a personal curiosity. For me, I already watch a ton of hockey on TV. I guess I want the game to offer something a bit different that gets me more immersed in an activity that I'll never play out in the real world such as playing hockey on TV, on the NHL level, being a superstar, etc. I already know what it's like to sit on the couch and watch a game. I'm more interested in trying to live out the on-ice action. Adding something like the flex cam amps up that excitement and adds another layer of immersion.
I'm not saying an authentic, true to life broadcast wouldn't be cool though. I really dug the intros with Doc and Eddie with the arena fly-bys. I'd love to see teams coming out of the tunnel and taking the ice as well as goalie stats, real on-ice projections, etc. We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the coming years.
I won’t comment on what I want from presentation as it’s not a feature I personally care about. I watch it once or twice and hammer the skip button every time after that.
I just have a bit of a sour taste as this years theme of listening to feedback is a lot of just reinstalling features that either should have never been removed in the first place or should have been reintroduced in last years $90 game.
Using ignore in my statement was incorrect and misleading, so I apologize for that, I know it’s not possible to add everything or please everybody. This year is probably the best example of trying new things that some will love and others will hate and I am 100% ok with that even if I would have liked to see a different direction myself. I'm not looking for an authentic version of the game like I see on TV, but I also don't want the features that make it look like an arcade game being overpowering either. So when I said ignored it was meant as not everyone wants to play this one way and keeping in as many options as possible should be the way to go.
The goalie tethering addition is a good example of the team trying to improve something and maybe missing the mark a little with its players.
Removing hybrid controls, true broadcast camera (I don’t use either of these) and locking out customizable settings in offline modes are examples of features that had no reason to be removed and I cannot see how they were intended as “trying to improve the game”.
- @bg0vzeyqov1y But see that is how you view it. I see it as I'm the star so acknowledge me. Especially for online gaming it's rubbing salt in the wounds. Don't be shocked to see future presentation not just with offline modes in mind.
- @Froommey absolutely, 22 new face scans are not much. Compared to EA FC 24, as far as I know they added more than 250 new scans and updates. And with every update they use to add even more. In this term the NHL team is losing so badly😖. Of course they would argue "soccer is more popular worldwide" or "licensing issues". Come on EA, give us at least a few more scans on release date and in future updates.
- @darkryd3r Would be welcome If we will get more face scans in an update this year. I am also not against to pay extra money for a package of face scans.
- @darkryd3r If accurate..
How Many copies did FIFA 23 sell?
FIFA 23 scored a record-breaking launch with over 10.3 million copies sold within the first week of its release, while its predecessor FIFA 22 sold a total of 9.1 million copies in its first 10 days of availability.
Do you think NHL 23 sold 1mil copies in the 1st week? So it's no wonder they can afford more facial scans per year when your team is probably insanely bigger. @KlariskraysNHLAnd it would be a problem to sell face scans like they do with HUT cards ? I also think that many artist students especialy from Canada which are Hockey nerds would do it for free during their summer holidays. I would do it for free too. Another possibility would be EA game face. I don't know the sales numbers from NHL the last years, but If they lost about 33% of sales the 22 scans would be ok because some years before we had a bit more than 30 scans in every game. It gives always a way to do things better. I mean every small detail counts to make this game better.
It seems to me that this series has been going in circles for years now and making only little progress. I also think that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the budget.
If we can't make our suggestions for improvements then what are we here for? There is also a lack of feedback from the team as to why some things are not possible.- @Froommey Trust me I have brought up having contests and such for designing things and there is apparently a bunch of red tape. Don't you think if they could they would abuse free labor? I wasn't getting at selling face scans. I was merely saying 1 game sells like 10x more so they have more people working on the game to actually do more.
It's good you have all suggestions and improvements to the game but saying things like 22 new faces or whatever isn't enough sounds a bit disrespectful in my eyes. The artists have to work on more than simply just faces. We got the new celebration stuff people are hit or miss on. We got the faceoff animation stuff. I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff they have to do also. Amount of employees goes a long way in how much some things can get done in a small time frame. - @KlariskraysNHL
There are many examples where people volunteer their free time to do this with joy, enthusiasm and conviction. I don't see this as exploitation.
What also sets us both apart is that I never describe another user as disrespectful if they express their wishes without personally insulting them. There are also forum rules.
As already mentioned, the problem lies in communication. People expect statements from the team about the moderator why things are not possible. I would like to emphasize that it is not the moderator's fault, because he does his job well and only says what he is allowed to tell us. Everyone would accept a clear statement here and there would be no more snappy answers. - @Froommey I mean what if the answer is "didn't have the time to get more added into the game"?
Why wasn't full crossplay added into the game last year? They didn't have time to complete it. So you either accepted the answer or people would go the opposite way with it in a less than nice manner.
"We make changes with the intent to improve the game for you all. Obviously, we're not going to make everyone happy. We have acted on a lot of the community feedback and we're also adding our own design presentation elements. I really don't think we're ever going to add everything that's being requested. In no way does that mean we're ignoring you. There are a ton of requests and it's impossible to make everyone happy. Gameplay is always going to take priority over presentation. As I mentioned before, with most people wanting to play the game rather than watch it, we have to have that as the bigger focus. That doesn't mean we can't achieve both, but it means those finer details with presentation have to wait." From Aljo himself stating this.
They are communicating with us this year. All these videos and such have told us their thoughts and what they are doing. They even were nice enough to tell us changes from the beta to final version that were taking place which is something that has never happened. - @KlariskraysNHL
There are various reasons why things cannot be edited or added. The time factor is one reason. But there is also the possibility of licenses and other reasons why certain things cannot be implemented. For example from a technical point of view. I think general feedback for all things like you present here is unfortunately not enough. The feedback about facial scanning could be, for example. “It takes our graphic designer two hours to complete a face scan; we only have a limited amount of time, which is given to us by the team leader for these scans. "I don't know how long a scan like this takes, it's just an assumption on my part. "We didn't have time" is not a sufficient statement in my opinion. Only designer professionals can estimate the time factor. People just give answers like, “We have to wait until something is announced.” ,, unsatisfied. The users here expect answers with a little more detail than a standard answer. I emphasize again that the moderator is not to blame. A better understanding of the situation can only be achieved through better communication. Even though it's slightly better this year, it could be much, much better. "Personally, what I am wondering about though is, do you want a game where everything looks the same as you see on TV? This is just a personal curiosity. For me, I already watch a ton of hockey on TV. I guess I want the game to offer something a bit different that gets me more immersed in an activity that I'll never play out in the real world such as playing hockey on TV, on the NHL level, being a superstar, etc. I already know what it's like to sit on the couch and watch a game. I'm more interested in trying to live out the on-ice action. Adding something like the flex cam amps up that excitement and adds another layer of immersion."
This hits a lot of the nail on the head.Its seen as the same game over and over because each one of our preferred views (however it is we like to play) has stayed the same. Sure we change around each year and see what the others have to offer, but ultimately choose how we each view "NHLxx", which in turn looks a lot like last years version. There may be a lot of different engine and gameplay tweaks under the hood, but if that core all looks the same each year... then really what's different? It's a more realistic version of the "TV mode" you describe.
There are elements in the Be a Pro mode that give a different angle of the game. More of a "From the bench, over the boards and back" view, that thousands of youth & adult recreational players experience each week/weekend, is what we want to see. Put me in that world and now those engine and gameplay tweaks are making THAT experience more realistic. Instead of tracking the player from the TV mode...How does the player track every spot in the arena as they skate up and down the ice? Dynamically. Which means a LOT of data.
Take that Flex Cam idea from both extremes... on one end is zoomed all the way out to "TV mode" and on the other is the view from the players eyes on the ice. Now give us the ability to dynamically zoom the view to any point we each like in between. Some may like it "10 ft above player head to see more of the ice". Some may like the player cam. Some may like seeing all three zones on the screen at the same time. To me that would make things more on par with the current EA line offering game experience champs (Madden/FIFA).It will be a lot of work, but ultimately that's the game we've been hoping for each year since we hopped on board with NHL '93 back on Sega/SNES.
@EA_Aljo wrote:I don't know that I'd call the return of the old True Broadcast camera being mentioned as a selling point. It's more being stated as part of our focus on listening to the community. We've been told many times that we're ignoring community feedback and are working to turn that around.
As far as the flex cam goes, we're trying some new presentation features. Again, one of the big pieces of feedback we get is that the game is a copy and paste with updated rosters. Leaving everything the same as it's been previously doesn't help with that. I agree we should highlight the milestone goals better though.
Appreciate the feedback. Thank you.
Appreciate our feedback!? We have been ignored, often. Yes this is one more time being told “we are being ignored.” Sorry, but not really sorry. I appreciate some of the effort but we have been giving feedback for years.
Every year since ECHL was added to the NHL series I, as others too, have said get the ECHL into Franchise mode. You lose many affiliate players if they are on ECHL rosters.
We have said, “fix Franchise mode.” Give us the little details that fleshes our the real world of the NHL front office every day business. One detail, 19 yr old CHL players can’t play in the AHL. Yes European players can but not CHL juniors. Give us the ability to negotiate contracts and extensions. The ability to added contract clauses. We want added real coaches. We want the ability to customize our franchise’s sweaters. We want hyped up free agency in the summer for the opening of free agency. I’d love to have authentic goal songs back etc etc. But alas, another year and none of this. Same old copy and paste franchise mode.
We want a full, authentic full presentation on matches. Take full presentation away from us last year and give us “glow sticks.” But no, we don’t get a full authentic presentation back this year.
