Nhl 24 the game for everyone and anyone.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

@thebrazenhead75 Let's break this down. 

First, you post this:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Now show a video of being able to do a flip dump on your back hand after your C wins the face off to you as a Dman that clears the zone in an EASHL 6’s game. 

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Here is a video of me doing a flip dump on my back hand after my C won a faceoff to me as a d-Man that clears the zone in an EASHL 6's game:

Then, you move the goal posts:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

Not what I asked for.  

Faceoff in your zone, quick backhand flip from the corner straight up the boards and over the blue line.  

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Here's a video of me of me doing a quick forehand flip from the corner, straight up the boards and over the blue line.

Now, you're going to get all picky about this not being a backhand - I am rarely trying to clear the zone on my backhand as a defender because that's not a play that I would consider a good one. I'm also always playing LD, so putting the puck on my backhand as a right-handed LD to clear the puck up my side (left) is not ideal. Also, a faceoff in this hypothetical is irrelevant. 

So then we arrive here:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:Yet, you have failed to provide an example of you executing it.  So until you post a video you executing the play I’ve explained in great detail then no you haven’t.  

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I've literally provided countless examples of me executing all kinds of dumps and clears, a few of which pertain to the exact situation you described initially and then subsequently changed as you were shown it's still accessible with some skill. 

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Obviously you’re not getting it.

I don’t need to be shown how to do something I can already do!  I’ve already told you I can do the backhand and forehand flips shown in your clips.  So why would I keep asking for you to perform a flip dump in a specific well explained situation?  Think about it.  It’s because there is a difference!  I haven’t changed it and have explained it in great detail a few times. 

The face off is crucial in this hypothetical situation.  The face off on the PK in my zone is the reason why I would attempt this particular flip dump. I’m PRIMARILY attempting this dump on the PK after a FO in my zone because it was the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  But now you think I want to be able to do it so I can exploit a play springing my winger for a breakaway.  😏  Which btw was also a common play a lot of people did but it was easily stopped too so it wasn’t an exploitable play.  Once again, I’m a 10 year EASHL veteran.  I’m skilled and good enough at this game that I don’t need a so called “exploit”.  

I don’t NEED the backhand high flip dump either because I’m skilled and good enough to clear the zone on PK’s other ways so yes I have “adapted”.  I do WANT it back because it is a common, effective and efficient way to clear the zone as done in real life.  That is the difference.  

Clearing your zone on your backhand you don’t consider a “good play” or “ideal”?  

It’s actually a better option especially if you’re playing as a right handed LD or in my case a left handed RD.  When you go to your backhand you’re shielding the puck from an opposing player thus making it easier to backhand flipping it out.  There is a reason why a lot of players use to puck protect and/rag it on their back hand.  

Also in your first clip dumping it diagonally to the right corner isn’t a good play at all.  The opposing C could’ve intercepted it for a breakaway and their LD was already back enough to retrieve it.  You could’ve easily just dumped it to the left corner using your forehand or backhand without any potential risk of it being intercepted. 

Back to the original and PRIMARY situation I’m talking about which is the PRIMARY reason why I would attempt this back hand flip dump.  I wish I could draw you a picture to help you but unfortunately I’m not good at that so I’ll explain it yet again in the simplest terms.

Your team is on the PK.  
They have 5 skaters.

Your team has 4 skaters.

The face off is in your zone.  
The face off is in your bottom left corner. 

You understand this so far?

You’re the LD (right handed).

You’re positioned directly behind your C at approximately the goal line.  
Your C wins it straight back to you or in the corner.

What are your options to clear the zone most effectively and efficiently?

You can turn towards the boards, then skate and slap shot it behind your net and up the right boards. That’s one effective way.   

You’re not going to chip it off the left boards on your forehand.  The opposing RW is attacking you and can poke check you before you get the chance. Even if you get the puck past the RW their RD is right along the boards at the blue line waiting for the puck.  

You’re not diagonally flipping it out the right side because the distance is even farther and the chance of it being intercepted is even greater.  

Now what are your other options and especially if you and/or your teammates are fatigued and the other team has pressure?

You can rip a slapshot along the left boards.  Ok, that could/would work. 

You’re not skating it out.  You’re too fatigued and outmanned.  

You’re not likely to pass it to a teammate because they’re too fatigued and also out manned and covered. 

Your best option as I’ve mentioned?

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

@thebrazenhead75 

Obviously, you cannot dump the puck out past the NZ from your own corner off a faceoff like you used to be able to. If you could, it would be too easy to relieve full pressure. That said, I'm having little trouble clearing the puck. Most of the time, I'll slap it around the boards. Often I find a teammate that has a more open lane to clear it. I can sometimes get it out the zone by dumping off the glass. There are numerous ways to clear the puck. It's not as easy as it used to be and that's the intent. A team skilled at moving the puck in their own zone is going to be able to clear it and remove that pressure. 

Per usual, it sounds like people are complaining when something negatively affects them. Why aren't we hearing how frustrating it is tot engage pressure against your opponents and being able to keep the puck in their zone? They are bound by the same mechanics as everyone else. Just like a skilled team in their end is going to clear the puck, a skilled team on offense is going to gain full pressure and keep it. 

We have heard the feedback. Repeatedly. Big changes have been made since launch based on that feedback that have severely made it harder to fill up the pressure meter. I think we have a pretty well balanced system for the current game. I most definitely was not a fan of it previously and I don't exactly love it now, but it does add a new skill based element that brings the need for a different kind of strategy. Something you didn't really have to even worry about before. This is a new element that shakes up the gameplay.

You guys claim we copy and past the game every year. We've added this new system and now it sounds like you actually want a copied and pasted game from years back. I get that the pressure system didn't hit the mark for many of you. Myself included. We've also seen a lot of claims that it's a good idea, but not well executed. Obviously, there's room for improvement. It's very possible changes will be made in the future based on the feedback you all have given us since launch.

I totally get it's frustrating not to be able to flip the puck more than halfway down the ice. Unfortunately, it doesn't play well with the new pressure system. Which, most likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, rather than debate ad nauseum not being able to easily escape full pressure, maybe it would be good to pivot this discussion into tips on how you can use the current mechanics to make that happen?

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@thebrazenhead75 

Obviously, you cannot dump the puck out past the NZ from your own corner off a faceoff like you used to be able to. If you could, it would be too easy to relieve full pressure. That said, I'm having little trouble clearing the puck. Most of the time, I'll slap it around the boards. Often I find a teammate that has a more open lane to clear it. I can sometimes get it out the zone by dumping off the glass. There are numerous ways to clear the puck. It's not as easy as it used to be and that's the intent. A team skilled at moving the puck in their own zone is going to be able to clear it and remove that pressure. 

Per usual, it sounds like people are complaining when something negatively affects them. Why aren't we hearing how frustrating it is tot engage pressure against your opponents and being able to keep the puck in their zone? They are bound by the same mechanics as everyone else. Just like a skilled team in their end is going to clear the puck, a skilled team on offense is going to gain full pressure and keep it. 

We have heard the feedback. Repeatedly. Big changes have been made since launch based on that feedback that have severely made it harder to fill up the pressure meter. I think we have a pretty well balanced system for the current game. I most definitely was not a fan of it previously and I don't exactly love it now, but it does add a new skill based element that brings the need for a different kind of strategy. Something you didn't really have to even worry about before. This is a new element that shakes up the gameplay.

You guys claim we copy and past the game every year. We've added this new system and now it sounds like you actually want a copied and pasted game from years back. I get that the pressure system didn't hit the mark for many of you. Myself included. We've also seen a lot of claims that it's a good idea, but not well executed. Obviously, there's room for improvement. It's very possible changes will be made in the future based on the feedback you all have given us since launch.

I totally get it's frustrating not to be able to flip the puck more than halfway down the ice. Unfortunately, it doesn't play well with the new pressure system. Which, most likely isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, rather than debate ad nauseum not being able to easily escape full pressure, maybe it would be good to pivot this discussion into tips on how you can use the current mechanics to make that happen?

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Good points but those should not be reasons to nerfed and/or remove abilities in the game.  Doing so to manipulate/force etc certain things to make their pressure system work better shouldn’t be a fix.  

Again, I’m skilled and good enough and have adapted but sometimes I shouldn’t have to adapt to certain things like this.  

I use a Sniper build on D and can play great with it.  I also score a lot of one timer bombs from the blue line and in using this build.  I know a lot of great players that use a Puck Moving Dman on W.   What’s next, EA restrictions on only certain builds can be used for certain positions?  

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

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This does still work. I've shown you videos of it working. It takes skill to be able to get it done under high pressure. 

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

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This does still work. I've shown you videos of it working. It takes skill to be able to get it done under high pressure. 

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No it doesnt!

Even ea_aljo stated it is no longer possible like previously done and removed due to the new pressure system!

Edit: Removed all caps. Per the Answers HQ rules, do not abuse formatting options. -CM

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

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This does still work. I've shown you videos of it working. It takes skill to be able to get it done under high pressure. 

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NO IT DOESNT!

EVEN EA_Aljo STATED IT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE LIKE PREVIOUSLY DONE AND REMOVED DUE TO THE NEW PRESSURE SYSTEM!

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I'm specifically talking about doing a high dump from your own corner with the puck landing in the neutral zone. It's certainly not impossible to still dump the puck from a defensive zone faceoff and have it cross the blueline.

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@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
@thebrazenhead75Yeah I have asked for years to ban the use of forwards on defense and defense on offense because it speaks volumes on imbalance if a defensive build is more useful than the forward builds. It says to me the defensive builds need nerfed down in offensive ability regardless if they are designed for offense and the forward builds need nerfed further in the defensive areas so they aren't used on defense.

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I’m glad you’re not in charge then.  

Im better than average at this game and if I can use a Sniper build than most players using a defensive build on D then so be it.  I already have certain defensive limitations using a Sniper build but I can balance it out in other areas.  That’s why we have the capability to tweak certain builds certain ways.  

EA already took away full customization.  So then I used what was given to me.  Now that I can make that build work for me you want them to not allow me to use it for D?!  😏

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

Backhand high flip straight up the left boards and over the blue line or even off the glass and out.  This is the option I am discussing and want.  Yet it has been nerfed to the point it isn’t possible or as effective as much anymore.  So EA has just handicapped the most effective and efficient way to clear the zone.  I don’t need to ask why.  

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This does still work. I've shown you videos of it working. It takes skill to be able to get it done under high pressure. 

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NO IT DOESNT!

EVEN EA_Aljo STATED IT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE LIKE PREVIOUSLY DONE AND REMOVED DUE TO THE NEW PRESSURE SYSTEM!

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I'm specifically talking about doing a high dump from your own corner with the puck landing in the neutral zone. It's certainly not impossible to still dump the puck from a defensive zone faceoff and have it cross the blueline.

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That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

@thebrazenhead75 

I'll clarify. You can't do a high flip dump from deep within your own zone and have it land in the NZ. However, if done at the right time, you can flip the puck from the same location and have it land close enough to the blue line to cross it. At that point, with enough pressure, you can prevent opposing players from getting back in your zone so that pressure is reset.

Again, this has been discussed since day one. We have more than enough feedback on it. You're welcome to continue the discussion, but there are no changes coming to this for NHL 24. If you just need to vent, have at it, but of course, keep the rules in mind.

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

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Example 1 

Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.

Example 2 

Example 3 

Example 4 

Example 5 

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@Beauts90 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

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Example 1 

Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.

Example 2 

Example 3 

Example 4 

Example 5 

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Thank you for providing the videos.  

They’re obviously not from the exact situation where I personally would use it but if it can be done in the 5 examples you’ve provide then they could and have be done in the exact situation I use to do them.  

EA_Aljo has already admitted they removed this ability to help their pressure system work as they want. 

That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants.  They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause. 

EA’s track record proves that!

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@thebrazenhead75 

I'll clarify. You can't do a high flip dump from deep within your own zone and have it land in the NZ. However, if done at the right time, you can flip the puck from the same location and have it land close enough to the blue line to cross it. At that point, with enough pressure, you can prevent opposing players from getting back in your zone so that pressure is reset.

Again, this has been discussed since day one. We have more than enough feedback on it. You're welcome to continue the discussion, but there are no changes coming to this for NHL 24. If you just need to vent, have at it, but of course, keep the rules in mind.

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@EA_Aljo 

If the puck flip is remaining as is, will the AI at least be retrained on how to clear pucks on the PK?  I'm so sick of watching the AI try to flip the puck out of zone on the PK and failing because it doesn't know that it can't flip the puck as high as it used to.

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@Beauts90 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

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Example 1 

Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.

Example 2 

Example 3 

Example 4 

Example 5 

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Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible" 

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That just proves how they manipulate and dumb down the game to cater to what they want and not necessarily what the majority wants.  They’ll claim that’s the “feedback” they got to change and eliminate certain things but their reputation doesn’t help their cause. 

EA’s track record proves that!

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I think you're exaggerating just a tad here. We introduced a new mechanic to the game and adjusted the dump to support it. We have received a huge amount of feedback saying the game never changes, it's copied and pasted, etc. Of course we're going to make changes. Sometimes that means removing previous features or making changes to them. It's certainly possible the feedback we get here will cause further changes in future games. We have been listening and acting on that input. In the meantime, I recommend adapting and using any of the other numerous ways to clear the zone. I know that's more challenging now, but as discussed in this thread, it's far from impossible.

@llamaverox 

I think realism being fun is debatable. We've made more realistic changes that weren't well received. Removing the speed boost with hitting this year, raising the likelihood of a tripping call a few years back. Even the pre-made builds we had in EASHL previously could be seen as more realistic. Regardless, I get what you're saying and I'm not debating the lack of realism with this mechanic. I'm just making the point that clearing the puck is far from impossible.

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@Beauts90 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

---

Example 1 

Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.

Example 2 

Example 3 

Example 4 

Example 5 

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Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible" 

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Maybe it’s too early in the morning, so I can’t find all of your clips, but can you please repost the video of you doing EXACTLY what is shown in example 1?

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@Beauts90 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@Beauts90 wrote:

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@KidShowtime1867 wrote:

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@thebrazenhead75 wrote:

That is still the high flip dump I’m taking about. 

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I have a great idea: Head over to YouTube or another service you might use to watch game replays. Find a clip or two of a team in the NHL flipping the puck from their own corner and into the neutral zone that springs a winger for a breakout. 

If you can show a real-world example of this precise exact flip dump that you insist needs to be buffed in-game, then we might be getting somewhere. 

---

Example 1 

Obviously these are not from the corner, but almost all of them show a flip with more velocity than what you have shown in your videos.

Example 2 

Example 3 

Example 4 

Example 5 

---

Like I said and what keeps getting ignored: the flip dump could use more velocity. I've posted clips of the current flip dump doing exactly what you see in these videos, but I'm still told it's "impossible" 

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Maybe it’s too early in the morning, so I can’t find all of your clips, but can you please repost the video of you doing EXACTLY what is shown in example 1?

 

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This banks off the glass, but I think we can agree we get the exact outcome:

There's no winger here for the breakout, but again - a flip dump up the side from in deep and out of the zone:

I'm slightly a little more up in the zone than Dillon:

Barron obtains the puck slightly before Dillon does:

But as you can see.. this is almost exactly identical with the differences being a bounce off the glass and the exact specific areas of the ice. 

At the end of the day, there's s claim that high flipping the dump is impossible. I'm saying and proving that it's not. Then the goalposts get changed to "you can't high flip from deep in your own end" and then I go ahead and prove that. Then it's "you can't high flip dump from deep in your own end on your backhand instantly after a faceoff win  to a winger streaking up the boards for a breakout" and then I go ahead and show how you can do exactly that. (albeit, omitting the faceoff win)

Then I ask for videos of IRL scenarios which was kindly provided. And those are great. They definitely show how velocity can be increased for sure. Something I was adamant about when this discussion first popped up back in November. 

So now I'm asked to recreate the exact specific scenario in one of the clips and aside from some positional differences and the fact the puck bounces off the glass - I've shown you can get the result that's being asked for in this thread: clear the zone, get a possible breakout.

What's next? "No that's not it. I'm talking about a high flip dump from behind your net, on your backhand, after a faceoff win in the 3rd period on Tuesday in July" ?

@KidShowtime1867 

What I believe is being requested is the old flip dump that went up much higher and didn't require banking off the glass. Where you could go from the corner to the opposite side of the ice and have the puck drop in the NZ. That just isn't possible currently.

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@KidShowtime1867 

What I believe is being requested is the old flip dump that went up much higher and didn't require banking off the glass. Where you could go from the corner to the opposite side of the ice and have the puck drop in the NZ. That just isn't possible currently.

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I totally understand that and I don't deny that the old dump was higher. But you can achieve the exact same outcome with the tools currently in place, which some claim is impossible. 

@KidShowtime1867 

You and I have much different definitions of “exactly”. Absolutely no goal posts are being moved here, you just haven’t provided what was asked, you just showed a very different play with similar results, again not what I asked for.

Instead of always being right, you could easily say “that particular play is no longer achievable with the new nerf, if you want I can provide clips of some plays I’ve found to work.”

Respectfully, if I wanted tips and tricks on how to play the game, that’s what I would ask for. This would save so much of the back and forth arguments that get absolutely nowhere and end up being locked on this forum.

All I’m saying is if the game is going to remove realistic features from the game to support their arcade gimmicks, that’s all well in good, but I’m far from a competitive player and would stop playing the game before I force myself to “adapt” to play a style I don’t enjoy.

I’m adding my opinion on it because I’ve enjoyed this series over the years and just simply want to enjoy it again.