https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
Bruh... Do you know what a hitting animation looks like? Not that. That's a pivoting animation. My skating animation is stick up as high in the air, that's why as I turn and skate it stays consistent. Am I hitting and turning with a hit at the same time?
Also if it was a body check you'd a)see both my arms throw out together and b)some type of movement from my skates in a direction.
Here's what a hit looks like, notice how it looks nothing similar, look at the stick, look at the arms:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
Bruh... Do you know what a hitting animation looks like? Not that. That's a pivoting animation. My skating animation is stick up as high in the air, that's why as I turn and skate it stays consistent. Am I hitting and turning with a hit at the same time?
Also if it was a body check you'd a)see both my arms throw out together and b)some type of movement from my skates in a direction.
Here's what a hit looks like, notice how it looks nothing similar, look at the stick, look at the arms:
https://youtu.be/BT_qUY5q8Gk?si=Pbt9TcmUkKycp9Sq
You can still hold body check during a pivot, which is what you did here
You don't "throw both (your) arms" when holding body check. Your arm raises. The 'shove' only happens on the release.
@KidShowtime1867wow you actually believe everything is fine huh... keep watching please.
UnusedCrayon posted a dozen videos, at least half of which are absolutely undisputable proofs that the intercepting is terrible. Don't just cherry pick the one or two you can argue, that's kind of dishonest.
Also we get it, sometimes people are fractionally off the passing lane and perhaps they're moving a bit too much at the split second where they should've kept quiet for the animation to engage but come on... to completely dismiss the fact that the intercepting is way underpowered compared to the offensive players ability to handle any pass at any speed facing any direction is just cognitive dissonance. Look at all the videos please.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
Bruh... Do you know what a hitting animation looks like? Not that. That's a pivoting animation. My skating animation is stick up as high in the air, that's why as I turn and skate it stays consistent. Am I hitting and turning with a hit at the same time?
Also if it was a body check you'd a)see both my arms throw out together and b)some type of movement from my skates in a direction.
Here's what a hit looks like, notice how it looks nothing similar, look at the stick, look at the arms:
https://youtu.be/BT_qUY5q8Gk?si=Pbt9TcmUkKycp9Sq
You can still hold body check during a pivot, which is what you did here
You don't "throw both (your) arms" when holding body check. Your arm raises. The 'shove' only happens on the release.
It's not what I did and you wouldn't know because you didn't play the game. You're making the wrong assumption because you're blindly defending the game and your stance.
@couture2fat2fly wrote:@KidShowtime1867wow you actually believe everything is fine huh... keep watching please.
I've never said "everything is fine". There are issues with the game, but when someone is spamming poke check and claiming everything is "broken", I'm gonna call it out.
@couture2fat2fly wrote:UnusedCrayon posted a dozen videos, at least half of which are absolutely undisputable proofs that the intercepting is terrible. Don't just cherry pick the one or two you can argue, that's kind of dishonest.
I don't have time to dissect and capture 20+ videos. I watched them all, narrowed in on a few of them to showcase they were spamming poke check (which is 100% true) which is a common theme throughout the videos.
@couture2fat2fly wrote:Also we get it, sometimes people are fractionally off the passing lane and perhaps they're moving a bit too much at the split second where they should've kept quiet for the animation to engage but come on... to completely dismiss the fact that the intercepting is way underpowered compared to the offensive players ability to handle any pass at any speed facing any direction is just cognitive dissonance. Look at all the videos please.
. This game has evolved into a twitch-skill game, which means small adjustments can make a huge difference. I love that about this franchise. But it also contributes to anger within the community when new elements are introduced (new controls, mechanics, etc) that people don't take time to learn before casting them away as "useless, broken' etc etc
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:It's not what I did and you wouldn't know because you didn't play the game. You're making the wrong assumption because you're blindly defending the game and your stance.
It's exactly what you did and i've proven it via video. You cannot deny you weren't holding body check when the animation that is triggered when you hold body check is literally playing out. Sorry man, I'm not trying to be mean or anything here I'm just pointing things out as I see them.
Passes will go through you in those situations because your player "isn't ready for them".
You need to pressure the puck handler or go shove the recipient out of position.
@couture2fat2fly wrote:
https://youtu.be/lrmiM8Qs5mA?si=HuSOCn4IbQQp7yl4
1. Teal hits the brakes and initiates a poke check, which negates any chance of intercepting
2. Teal initiates a backskate away from the net. I'd like to see puck disruptions added while the backskate initialization sequence plays out, so I'm kinda on your side here:
3. Finally, here's green - activley skating AWAY from the shooter as he scores
@couture2fat2fly wrote:
https://youtu.be/9yTjcDUGuyQ?si=4pN2TEB-yimn2Xuc
Green is constantly hustling, changing direction - essentially in a frantic state - which lowers the chances of intercepting
@couture2fat2fly wrote:
https://youtu.be/gYmSmmSYPlI?si=d-_IXkyML6OopdyA
You're just lying on the ice. When you do that, you have to expect the puck might find a way under you, and it did:
@couture2fat2fly wrote:
https://youtu.be/txvV8s1_HI8?si=rB6tgusiJaCfdkyU
Not sure what the issue is here. Red on the other team could've gained possession, but it's possible the pass was charged up quite a bit. Either way, they disrupted the play and I don't see anything wrong here.
when I played D in college, laying down usually resulted in pucks hitting my solid body...thats just me though..
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
I made a video showing what holding a hit looks like. You cropped the original video so here's the extended version of my original play:
https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
Vs what it looks like holding a hit. If you notice the stick hand is always down and the skating is ultra clunky (I suggest you try it yourself in free skate). Also if you try to pivot before holding down the analogue it turns into a wind up for a slap shot:
https://youtu.be/JBkTqlUNGUg?si=gWOpku0xzdhJq_I6
And
https://youtu.be/_ZQwiPJSNaE?si=uKB5Ao10seJEnAXx
(To show what it looks like trying to pivot naturally with the hit, trying to hold hit during a pivot (slapshot windup) and then as best as I could replicate the video (which takes impressive timing and multiple stick movements).
There couldn't possibly be a hitting animation because I was clearly L2'ing waiting for the pass so it'd automatically be a wind up for a slap shot. In order to even activate that animation that somewhat replicates it you need pinpoint timing of pivoting, releasing L2 and then hitting and turning at the same time and even then the stick remains on the ice the whole time and not up in the air. On top of that, the location of the stick crosses the body to the opposite side and doesn't stay in front of you as displayed above. The animation for hitting also holds the loose hand over the center of your body right up against your chest, not extended out in front of the body about a foot. It's within inches of the jersey.
So your "proof" isn't proof at all. It's an animation of a failed puck pickup. If you can replicate this animation in free skate I'll be extremely impressed. If you can somehow cause the holding of a hit animation to lift the stick in the air I'll somehow believe you that my brain had a seizure and just started throwing hits for no reason while backing up to get in the lane of a pass with nobody around me.
For further proof here's the best comparison:
Vs
The big difference is the left hand being super low and stick position.
This one is really bad.
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:when I played D in college, laying down usually resulted in pucks hitting my solid body...thats just me though..
Watch it again, The puck goes under his body on the way down. When you laid down while playing D in college, was your body instantly flush with the ice the moment you decided to lay down? Or was there a period of time between when you decided to lay down and when your body was flush to the ice, that the puck could've travelled under your body?
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:For further proof here's the best comparison:
Vs
The big difference is the left hand being super low and stick position.
These are literally the same animation
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:This one is really bad.
https://youtu.be/TntJF-rosCE?si=J8hoDQXyj1XNYfid
It's not that bad. Red could've done a better job facing the puck carrier in anticipation of the pass, but instead continued to skate full speed backwards (watch it full speed, in the slowed down clip you can't notice how much hustle is being used). Red did end up blocking the shot, which means they did execute good positioning and ultimately stopped the chance. .
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/yTOod3IUdHI?si=ky99tNaDDTCSQWsP
You get caught skating to coverage that's already covered by your teammate, and then you stop-start in an attempt to get back into the passing lane. I think attributes are likely more at play here than you think. Personaly, I think your positioning is fine but it's the constant movement and rush to change positions that lowers the chances of you intercepting this.
You can scrutinize these plays till you're blue in the face - the bigger issue here how pixel perfect defense needs to be when offense gets way more automatic support.
Not only do I need to be pixel perfect with pokes, I now need to be in the exact perfect spot (out of like a billion different possibilities), *and* now I need to worry about the timing of every single movement and button press I do, all at the same time. Who cares about a start-stop if I made it to the spot I needed to be?
No animation cancelling, no full limb control, sloooow and dated blocking plays, etc...
I wouldn't be so mad if passing had 0 assist or all shots were manual
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:when I played D in college, laying down usually resulted in pucks hitting my solid body...thats just me though..
Watch it again, The puck goes under his body on the way down. When you laid down while playing D in college, was your body instantly flush with the ice the moment you decided to lay down? Or was there a period of time between when you decided to lay down and when your body was flush to the ice, that the puck could've travelled under your body?
Not really since we wear pads when we play hockey so you dont go to the ground like an eldery man falling and trying to not get hurt...you just drop drop down and become flush with the ice...he initiated the fall right before release...more than enough time to become flush from that far out
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:You can scrutinize these plays till you're blue in the face - the bigger issue here how pixel perfect defense needs to be when offense gets way more automatic support.
Not only do I need to be pixel perfect with pokes, I now need to be in the exact perfect spot (out of like a billion different possibilities), *and* now I need to worry about the timing of every single movement and button press I do, all at the same time. Who cares about a start-stop if I made it to the spot I needed to be?
No animation cancelling, no full limb control, sloooow and dated blocking plays, etc...
I wouldn't be so mad if passing had 0 assist or all shots were manual
bingo...this discussion is easy to understand...defensive difficulty shouldnt be playing chess against magnus carlsen while offensive difficulty is playing with a fisher price speak and say toy
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! Lmao
I bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
Exactly dude! i dont mind back saktign being much slower than forwards but we need the DSS speed nerf removed. then yeah slot shots needs to be much more lethal and screens need to result in at least blocking saves with scrambles if not straight goals. then make the Ai actually properly collapse to the middle-low of the zone so that real scrambles can play out! AI forwards also need to converge on the net with a loose puck rather than starting their super awesomke "1-2-2 whatever" as soon as a shot is taken lol.
everyone says hockey is "random" and they dont understand the sport. you create your own luck. making passing plays and working the puck and shooting smart are all "skill" plays and you should be rewarded for finding a shooting lane from the point or taking a nice shot off of a cut through a screen. the "iso ball" version of "hockey" displayed in this game is not hockey in the slightest. all of the balancing issues stem from this just incorrect appraoch to the sport!
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
Exactly dude! i dont mind back saktign being much slower than forwards but we need the DSS speed nerf removed. then yeah slot shots needs to be much more lethal and screens need to result in at least blocking saves with scrambles if not straight goals. then make the Ai actually properly collapse to the middle-low of the zone so that real scrambles can play out! AI forwards also need to converge on the net with a loose puck rather than starting their super awesomke "1-2-2 whatever" as soon as a shot is taken lol.
everyone says hockey is "random" and they dont understand the sport. you create your own luck. making passing plays and working the puck and shooting smart are all "skill" plays and you should be rewarded for finding a shooting lane from the point or taking a nice shot off of a cut through a screen. the "iso ball" version of "hockey" displayed in this game is not hockey in the slightest. all of the balancing issues stem from this just incorrect appraoch to the sport!
Not to mention that most of hockey's luck and randomness can be excluded from the game for a more consistent and enjoyable experience. You don't have to worry about bad ice, poor bounces off of stanchions, pucks bouncing uncharacteristically, pucks hopping off of sticks, etc. All of that stuff doesn't need to be left out for the sake of a shortened game.
