@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
This is with 97 defensive awareness and gold quick pick. Slow pass, I'm backskating looking up ice, anticipating pass knowing it's gonna go through me but wanted to capture the video to show why you never aggressively risk cutting the lane.
The instant you're about to intercept the puck, you decided to trigger a body check. You can tell because your player is holding their arm in the body check animation as you turn around.
I made a video showing what holding a hit looks like. You cropped the original video so here's the extended version of my original play:
https://youtu.be/gb41Js2sbks?si=scVYY0h8pH0fD0Oa
Vs what it looks like holding a hit. If you notice the stick hand is always down and the skating is ultra clunky (I suggest you try it yourself in free skate). Also if you try to pivot before holding down the analogue it turns into a wind up for a slap shot:
https://youtu.be/JBkTqlUNGUg?si=gWOpku0xzdhJq_I6
And
https://youtu.be/_ZQwiPJSNaE?si=uKB5Ao10seJEnAXx
(To show what it looks like trying to pivot naturally with the hit, trying to hold hit during a pivot (slapshot windup) and then as best as I could replicate the video (which takes impressive timing and multiple stick movements).
There couldn't possibly be a hitting animation because I was clearly L2'ing waiting for the pass so it'd automatically be a wind up for a slap shot. In order to even activate that animation that somewhat replicates it you need pinpoint timing of pivoting, releasing L2 and then hitting and turning at the same time and even then the stick remains on the ice the whole time and not up in the air. On top of that, the location of the stick crosses the body to the opposite side and doesn't stay in front of you as displayed above. The animation for hitting also holds the loose hand over the center of your body right up against your chest, not extended out in front of the body about a foot. It's within inches of the jersey.
So your "proof" isn't proof at all. It's an animation of a failed puck pickup. If you can replicate this animation in free skate I'll be extremely impressed. If you can somehow cause the holding of a hit animation to lift the stick in the air I'll somehow believe you that my brain had a seizure and just started throwing hits for no reason while backing up to get in the lane of a pass with nobody around me.
For further proof here's the best comparison:
Vs
The big difference is the left hand being super low and stick position.
This one is really bad.
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:This one is really bad.
https://youtu.be/TntJF-rosCE?si=J8hoDQXyj1XNYfid
It's not that bad. Red could've done a better job facing the puck carrier in anticipation of the pass, but instead continued to skate full speed backwards (watch it full speed, in the slowed down clip you can't notice how much hustle is being used). Red did end up blocking the shot, which means they did execute good positioning and ultimately stopped the chance. .
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:https://youtu.be/yTOod3IUdHI?si=ky99tNaDDTCSQWsP
You get caught skating to coverage that's already covered by your teammate, and then you stop-start in an attempt to get back into the passing lane. I think attributes are likely more at play here than you think. Personaly, I think your positioning is fine but it's the constant movement and rush to change positions that lowers the chances of you intercepting this.
You can scrutinize these plays till you're blue in the face - the bigger issue here how pixel perfect defense needs to be when offense gets way more automatic support.
Not only do I need to be pixel perfect with pokes, I now need to be in the exact perfect spot (out of like a billion different possibilities), *and* now I need to worry about the timing of every single movement and button press I do, all at the same time. Who cares about a start-stop if I made it to the spot I needed to be?
No animation cancelling, no full limb control, sloooow and dated blocking plays, etc...
I wouldn't be so mad if passing had 0 assist or all shots were manual
@TTZ_Dipsy wrote:You can scrutinize these plays till you're blue in the face - the bigger issue here how pixel perfect defense needs to be when offense gets way more automatic support.
Not only do I need to be pixel perfect with pokes, I now need to be in the exact perfect spot (out of like a billion different possibilities), *and* now I need to worry about the timing of every single movement and button press I do, all at the same time. Who cares about a start-stop if I made it to the spot I needed to be?
No animation cancelling, no full limb control, sloooow and dated blocking plays, etc...
I wouldn't be so mad if passing had 0 assist or all shots were manual
bingo...this discussion is easy to understand...defensive difficulty shouldnt be playing chess against magnus carlsen while offensive difficulty is playing with a fisher price speak and say toy
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! Lmao
I bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
Exactly dude! i dont mind back saktign being much slower than forwards but we need the DSS speed nerf removed. then yeah slot shots needs to be much more lethal and screens need to result in at least blocking saves with scrambles if not straight goals. then make the Ai actually properly collapse to the middle-low of the zone so that real scrambles can play out! AI forwards also need to converge on the net with a loose puck rather than starting their super awesomke "1-2-2 whatever" as soon as a shot is taken lol.
everyone says hockey is "random" and they dont understand the sport. you create your own luck. making passing plays and working the puck and shooting smart are all "skill" plays and you should be rewarded for finding a shooting lane from the point or taking a nice shot off of a cut through a screen. the "iso ball" version of "hockey" displayed in this game is not hockey in the slightest. all of the balancing issues stem from this just incorrect appraoch to the sport!
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKit wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayon wrote:
@Limp_KidzKitWhat a comparison! LmaoI bring the humor and the thunder lol
on a serious note this balance of ease actually should lean towards defense in terms of 1v1 scenarios while giving the offense more ways to score and more reward for earning a grade A chance. Thats the problem with this game. too many grade A's with no reward (due to goalie balancing) so we nerf the heck ouit of 1v1 defense rather than adding forechecking strats that make sense and the ability to score 1st goals from the "house" regularly and making screens seffective and on and on.
You can add more ways to score...dare I saw "easier" ways to score if you make getting those high danger chances much much harder than they currently are. simple stuff in theory but were always marching the wrong way
100% agree. A shot in the slot should have a 30% chance of going in, but it should be difficult to get to the slot. Screens should have a higher chance of going in or creating rebounds. Tips are actually just a slightly bit OP right now but it's close to balanced there (if we could engage in net battles it'd be perfect).
Especially with the pressure system this change would make people feel rewarded, that they aren't goalie'd etc.
Especially with the skating in this game favoring forwards or the people who possess the puck, I don't think buffing interceptions and poke checks and making goaltenders weaker if deep in their net would be a bad thing at all. Force the goalies to come out to cut down angles, lower one-timer accuracy significantly and you're golden.
Exactly dude! i dont mind back saktign being much slower than forwards but we need the DSS speed nerf removed. then yeah slot shots needs to be much more lethal and screens need to result in at least blocking saves with scrambles if not straight goals. then make the Ai actually properly collapse to the middle-low of the zone so that real scrambles can play out! AI forwards also need to converge on the net with a loose puck rather than starting their super awesomke "1-2-2 whatever" as soon as a shot is taken lol.
everyone says hockey is "random" and they dont understand the sport. you create your own luck. making passing plays and working the puck and shooting smart are all "skill" plays and you should be rewarded for finding a shooting lane from the point or taking a nice shot off of a cut through a screen. the "iso ball" version of "hockey" displayed in this game is not hockey in the slightest. all of the balancing issues stem from this just incorrect appraoch to the sport!
Not to mention that most of hockey's luck and randomness can be excluded from the game for a more consistent and enjoyable experience. You don't have to worry about bad ice, poor bounces off of stanchions, pucks bouncing uncharacteristically, pucks hopping off of sticks, etc. All of that stuff doesn't need to be left out for the sake of a shortened game.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayonVideo 1 - You start hustling as the pass is coming so your stick is in the air.
Video 2 - You did everything right he was just there to pick it off because of stick on stick contact. It just stunk you picked it up and were at like a stop.
Video 3- Way too early and far on a stick lift attempt. The defense in front managed to keep the player from getting a solid shot off.
Video 4 - You are skating backwards at the very start when there is literally no reason to be. You and the Ai are in the same area which means if you were a dman you should be farther wide or farther back and thus could have retrieved the puck in the corner and challenged, but since you didn't.... You stood still facing towards the other end of the rink when you should be facing the person with the puck for the best chance as intercepting it.
So forwards are allowed to pick up passes hustling, but defenders can't.
Video 2 isn't about the first interception. It's about the 2nd one that's literally in perfect positioning and it goes off his skate for a breakaway.
Video 3 there is no stick lift or one that I care about. I'm saying I'm in between the player and the pass perfectly, as close to the shooter as possible so the "You're too close so they overpowered it through you" argument doesn't apply. Why does the puck go to the forward and not the defenseman who is in proper position, facing the proper way to have tape next to tape, and still can't pick it up?
Video 4 is just you making up weird scenarios for why a puck going slow as molasses can't be picked up as it snails past the stick. Are players in this game incapable of rotating their eyes to see different fields of view or are they incapable of turning their heads towards the play? Why are you creating scenarios of how I defend poorly when the puck literally gets passed to me? If I back up more, then I'm just taking away what the goaltender already has, if the player that he's passing to gets back into an acceptable passing position then I've got the pass. Either way...
Why must we keep creating these lame excuses for why defense is playing like they have blindfolds on? Come on, guys. Be better.
@TheUnusedCrayonWhen the devs had been on the forums and answered questions and people didn't like their reasons they got angry at the devs and that ended up ruining the communication here because a devs word wasn't good enough.
But don't worry you can post whatever else you want I'll just refrain from giving my 2 cents on the plays because it isn't what you want to hear.
@KlariskraysNHL wrote:
@TheUnusedCrayonYou just don't like hearing how what isn't the answer you want. When the devs had been on the forums and answered questions and people didn't like their reasons they got angry at the devs and that ended up ruining the communication here because a devs word wasn't good enough.
People are fine with the answers when they make sense. It's a tired excuse for poor communication.
I'm bringing logic to the discussion. Others are intentionally removing it and saying logic shouldn't apply to the video game. I expect higher standards for a billion dollar company to put in basic things (that already exist by the way) that make the simple things work.
I dunno what happened in vid 2 but the player wasn't even looking at the puck in 3 and 4 and definitely shouldn't have stopped the puck.
I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure the team didn't program eyes and heads to shift the way you want them to. Clearly, there is a lot to be desired when it comes to authenticity and overall gameplay but at the end of the day this is still a mish mash of 1's and 0's and we needa do they best we can with the tools (currently) given.
It's all about vision control. Hold LT/L2 between the puck carrier and receiver. It works 9/10
If it's an active 2 on 1. The best available option is either switching to goalie or dive block.
Plenty of the examples here also work when making your opponent double think their set up approach.
Who cares right... "it's just a game!"
What a response from people who spend their time discussing and defending said game on forums. It was right in years past, how hard can it be to make it right again? Paid 100$ for this.
This replay of my friend playing as a Defensive Defenseman:
