As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
And here is a completely ineffective one from a good position that leads to a goal:
Trying to do a skill move = vulnerable
Rushing down the boards = puck keep
Sucks that it works like that most of the time...
Rewarding "positioning" and stingy puck possession, when it mostly just benefits people who straight line.
The auto aim pokes aren't as bad as the missed/ineffective ones IMO
@PackBeak wrote:The auto aim pokes aren't as bad as the missed/ineffective ones IMO
I totally agree with that - I am totally fine with pokes being overpowered considering how underpowered everything on defense is.
I'm just pointing out that they can make pokes better and also leave room for "creativity" and deking. They could reward using the dekes in the game, which almost no-one uses or have ever used, rather than the figure skating, straight lining, stutter stepping, L2ing (finally fixed), and corner dancing.
@Jagavekov wrote:
@PackBeak wrote:The auto aim pokes aren't as bad as the missed/ineffective ones IMO
I totally agree with that - I am totally fine with pokes being overpowered considering how underpowered everything on defense is.
I'm just pointing out that they can make pokes better and also leave room for "creativity" and deking. They could reward using the dekes in the game, which almost no-one uses or have ever used, rather than the figure skating, straight lining, stutter stepping, L2ing (finally fixed), and corner dancing.
But then it's not hockey.
Why is there a focus on making deking and these rare plays that happen throughout a game and not the ones that do exist in a game like passing?
You see guys get dangled maybe a few times a game. Most times people get around other players with speed and built up momentum and puck protection (which still needs work in this game). Passing should be a priority to open up ice, not individualism.
Like you said, there's definitely a lot of room for them to grow with creativity as well. But let's not forget there's a lot of creativity in passing and setting up things like weaves, stop ups, button hooks, etc.
I see a lot of poke check attempts in the thread from angles that don't work very well in this game.
There are three main points to consider: timing, angle, and momentum.
If your poke check comes from where they are skating to with the puck, that's when it's at its most effective. You need to make contact with the puck dead on and opposite its momentum (so in front of the puck from where it is going). There's a slight margin for error so as long as you adhere to this principle, you'll be much more successful with your pokes overall. So, the way to do this is to make sure you have your player in the direction the opponent is skating to and make your poke check from that position.
Furthermore, when the opponent is hustling at you, I would not recommend going for a poke check because as already established in the thread, a player hustling with the puck is apt to regain it even when you manage to disrupt their possession initially. In that case it's usually better to just skate with them into your own zone, stay in front and try to get your body between the puck and their player. In these scenarios if you do go for a poke check, you will still usually dislodge the puck if you connect almost exactly from where the puck is going, but if you miss or you make contact at a somewhat weaker angle, they'll retain possession and blow past you so it's very risky.
Another thing: I saw people voicing issues with the poke getting auto aimed away from the puck. Here's the thing though, the autoaim is ALWAYS toward the puck. But this means it's aimed toward the puck at the moment of you pressing R1/RB, so you have to take that into account. If while poke checking you change your player's orientation, the opponent moves his stick, or the player is moving laterally relative to your poke and your timing is ever so slightly off, the autoaim gets disrupted because your poke check goes where the puck was relative to your player when you pressed R1, instead of where the puck is when you want the poke check to connect. This is also why it's a good idea to poke from where the puck is going: as long as you don't mess with your player's orientation, the puck will come towards your stick which makes timing a lot easier. Also, there are some angles from which your stick will not go toward the puck just because it'll be impossible for your player to bring the stick in that direction due to his orientation and the angle to the puck.
I understand the frustration between the offensive and defensive mechanics, but really it's all about working with what we're given and finding the things that do work with a decent level of consistency.
@Janikka wrote:I see a lot of poke check attempts in the thread from angles that don't work very well in this game.
There are three main points to consider: timing, angle, and momentum.
If your poke check comes from where they are skating to with the puck, that's when it's at its most effective. You need to make contact with the puck dead on and opposite its momentum (so in front of the puck from where it is going). There's a slight margin for error so as long as you adhere to this principle, you'll be much more successful with your pokes overall. So, the way to do this is to make sure you have your player in the direction the opponent is skating to and make your poke check from that position.
Furthermore, when the opponent is hustling at you, I would not recommend going for a poke check because as already established in the thread, a player hustling with the puck is apt to regain it even when you manage to disrupt their possession initially. In that case it's usually better to just skate with them into your own zone, stay in front and try to get your body between the puck and their player. In these scenarios if you do go for a poke check, you will still usually dislodge the puck if you connect almost exactly from where the puck is going, but if you miss or you make contact at a somewhat weaker angle, they'll retain possession and blow past you so it's very risky.
Another thing: I saw people voicing issues with the poke getting auto aimed away from the puck. Here's the thing though, the autoaim is ALWAYS toward the puck. But this means it's aimed toward the puck at the moment of you pressing R1/RB, so you have to take that into account. If while poke checking you change your player's orientation, the opponent moves his stick, or the player is moving laterally relative to your poke and your timing is ever so slightly off, the autoaim gets disrupted because your poke check goes where the puck was relative to your player when you pressed R1, instead of where the puck is when you want the poke check to connect. This is also why it's a good idea to poke from where the puck is going: as long as you don't mess with your player's orientation, the puck will come towards your stick which makes timing a lot easier. Also, there are some angles from which your stick will not go toward the puck just because it'll be impossible for your player to bring the stick in that direction due to his orientation and the angle to the puck.
I understand the frustration between the offensive and defensive mechanics, but really it's all about working with what we're given and finding the things that do work with a decent level of consistency.
As sad as this is, accurate.+1
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
This is exactly it.
@JanikkaAppreciate you trying to help, but it shouldn't be this hard to stop a guy hustling right at you, pushing the puck with 1 hand straight into you. You never see this in real life and it is a huge problem this year, and that's all due to poor pokecheck mechanics.
The solution you propose only works if your defenseman has 90+ speed because these 93 speed forwards are through you in a heartbeat this year (literally through you). This makes big defensemen very vulnerable even with good positioning because you can't just cut the skating lane to the net anymore like you should be able to.
@rsandersr47 wrote:
@JanikkaYep, 91 speed is the minimum for defense. I just don't feel the devs actually test this game at all.. either that or just don't test defense/ know anything about hockey. The fact we have to pause frames and argue which button we should have pressed at which frame and the fact we can't even agree on which one would give the best result... thats REALLY bad.
Nailed it. Defense is just so much less satisfying this year than ever before.
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
This particular iteration seems to reward bad position/desperation pokechecks WAY more than it should...so frustrating.
@MrTopShelf85 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
This particular iteration seems to reward bad position/desperation pokechecks WAY more than it should...so frustrating.
I think the loose-puck deke is the reason this blind poke was successful. It seems when the puck is loose (ie; not under control of the player model) the auto-aim on poke is enabled.
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@MrTopShelf85 wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
This particular iteration seems to reward bad position/desperation pokechecks WAY more than it should...so frustrating.
I think the loose-puck deke is the reason this blind poke was successful. It seems when the puck is loose (ie; not under control of the player model) the auto-aim on poke is enabled.
Are you defending that or admitting it is a problem with the game?
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
Is this brutal too or no?
Come on, give this the Zapruder film treatment and tell me what I did wrong!
@Jagavekov wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
Is this brutal too or no?
Come on, give this the Zapruder film treatment and tell me what I did wrong!
Well, you're both skating in the same direction. You knock it loose and he picked it back up... why should it have gone to you? You're both skating one way in tandem... it is dislodged ahead right in front of him.
Also, you don't know if he has magnetic gold perk or high OA.
@75fd980e1b183900 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:
@KidShowtime1867 wrote:
@Jagavekov wrote:As I've said for a while, poke checks are both not effective enough when in good position yet also too good and auto-aimed in bad positions.
These are both in online VS. Here is a ridiculously auto-aimed one:
man that's brutal
Is this brutal too or no?
Come on, give this the Zapruder film treatment and tell me what I did wrong!
Well, you're both skating in the same direction. You knock it loose and he picked it back up... why should it have gone to you? You're both skating one way in tandem... it is dislodged ahead right in front of him.
Also, you don't know if he has magnetic gold perk or high OA.
You don't think more accuracy and force should have been applied to the poke considering how perfectly positioned the defensive player was? You think I should have manual control over which pixel my stick hits but forwards can aim within 45 degrees of a player when passing and press up at any point to do a perfect one-timer?
@Jagavekov wrote:
@75fd980
@Jagavekov
When I Zoom in and look at the play very closely, I see the initial contact of Kakko's stick is on the heel of Hintz stick, so the puck should keep going there like it was. It’s on the forward follow through of Kakko's stick that it goes through the puck, as if the blade of the stick was ghosted that we have a problem here…
What's weird, is that the stick blade catches the puck on the way back, but apparently not clean enough because the puck seems to have a force field in favour of Hintz there…
Posts like these make me realize just how many people play this game but never played real hockey.
There is no way half the arguments about poke checking being good are coming from anyone who ever played in a remotely competitive hockey in real life.
Poke is a mess. It doesnt track properly, it doesnt properly deflect passes, it doesnt push the puck far enough on contact, it trips in the most ridiculous situations where nobody would ever trip.
You can have 55 wrist shot accuracy and score 9/10 times on breakaway but you have 88 poke check and poke worse than a timbit hockey player.
@TheUnusedCrayon Agreed. The scenario where my poke check will make contact with the opponent's stick but somehow miss the puck entirely comes up way too often.
I posted this in another thread where I was musing about alternatives to poke checks, but I think it fits here too. Two scenarios where the puck is exposed and my poke somehow misses the puck in what should be trivial defensive plays.
