Re: Excessive weakening of condor/Hind

Hey folks,

Update 1.2 went live in the past hour.

When you next have the opportunity to play, let us know how the Transport (and Stealth helicopters) feel after the update. From our experience, we did see they were too strong versus infantry.

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@Straatford87 wrote:

Hey folks,

Update 1.2 went live a in the past hour.

When you next have the opportunity to play, let us know how the Transport (and Stealth helicopters) feel after the update. From our experience, we did see they were too strong versus infantry.

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@Straatford87generally all the heli issues have a lot to do with how air transports and helis counter with the press of the flare button and going out of line of slight/range to negate almost all the things the infantry can throw at them.

In that regard I believe that it would help if the TGS of Liz could either land more easily on aircraft and/or have larger fuel reserves for having the ability of making more than one pass per missile. Unlike in the season 1 trailer, at ingame a well flown heli will not hover nicely for a TGS to hit it. the 2042 Helis are perfectly capable of even doing Ace Combat Assault Horizon style full barrel rolls to avoid liz missiles.

That aside I believe that the AA buffs for the Wildcat could help things a bit. I will make sure to test later.

Speaking of the wildcat, its turret ist still slow and has too limited high angles

Have we got AI bots communicating in the forums now?

This conversation was beginning to feel a bit spooky.

HAL9000 - "I don't think I agree with you Dave"

Kap.

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@Straatford87 wrote:

Hey folks,

Update 1.2 went live in the past hour.

When you next have the opportunity to play, let us know how the Transport (and Stealth helicopters) feel after the update. From our experience, we did see they were too strong versus infantry.

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Yeah I think the vast majority would agree with you they were definitely overpowered versus infantry.

Hopefully they will be better balanced after today's update.

@Straatford87I can foresee 40mm GL spam being the new Meta for Hind/Condor. Neither the 50mm or 40mm should exist on either platform. Two Miniguns are plenty and the nose gun should be replaced by smoke canisters activated by the pilot to provide screening for troops being dropped off. Convert the nose gunner to a third passenger slot that can’t use repair tool. More and more the Hind/Condor aren’t transports as most people stay on board more times than not. 

The Hind and Condor cross the lines of being more
survivable than the tanks in game, plus high mobility, plus escapability, plus being able to use self repair while being repaired by two passengers. And flares that are almost always off cooldown. All factors combined make for an obviously overpowered platform the likes of which have never been seen on a Battlefield game.

The classic, successful Battlefield formula is highly mobile lightly armed air transports. Blackhawk and Huey type airframes. 

@Zhukov211
I'll have to remind some of the older players of the good old BF2 "flying fortress" blackhawk.
At one stage this thing was literally unkillable and could cap flags at 6X speed as all occupants counted towards the flag cap.
I'm pretty sure if I have a good look through some old external drives I could find some foootage of my helicopter completely capping out all 5 flags on Wake Island for the US team in about 3 minutes flat.
Not that I'm saying this was a good thing, but there have been overpowered heli's before and they did the right thing to bring them back to manageable levels.
I believe a few more tweaks (read nerfs) are required for both the transport aircraft and the stealth helicopters.
It would be nice if the tanks could actually be played as the powerful vehicles that they should be.
Kap.

@Kaptyn027Miniguns on the Blackhawk take a lot more skill than spamming 40mm GL on the Hind/Condor. When you get hit by a minigun you most often have time to react. When 3 to 4 grenades from the 40mm GL from hind/condor hit you in one time stamp, you have zero reaction time. Add to that the notorious lack of cover on most 2042 maps, 40mm spam will be the new Hind/Condor Meta and these airframes will still be extremely difficult to take down. 

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@direct3r wrote:
@Straatford87for the stealth heli I see literally no difference at all, it's maybe 5% less strong, it still can go stealth, flare and is gone in seconds behind some cover.
The cannon was like the bolte before the nerf, it's now somewhere in the middle , but this never was the problem really.
a MUCH longer stealth cooldown or no flares at all would have been a real nerf to this thing

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I believe that the best nerf for the stealth heli is to capitalize on it being something that needs to be sneaky. For that I believe that it should simply have  less health than anything else.

Like 1 stinger/TGS = death.

This way one can justyfy its high firepower while also meaning that if the enemy is aware and expecting, the heli will go down fast if they start hitting it.

Another slightly more cruel nerf would be to require 100% or above 90% health for the stealth to be available and sustainable.

Someone just landed those 30mm AA shells at you? Well... stealth system malfunction bro!

It is fine if the stealth heli is deadly. It is a vehicle.

It is its defenses that are the problem

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:

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@direct3r wrote:
@Straatford87for the stealth heli I see literally no difference at all, it's maybe 5% less strong, it still can go stealth, flare and is gone in seconds behind some cover.
The cannon was like the bolte before the nerf, it's now somewhere in the middle , but this never was the problem really.
a MUCH longer stealth cooldown or no flares at all would have been a real nerf to this thing

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I believe that the best nerf for the stealth heli is to capitalize on it being something that needs to be sneaky. For that I believe that it should simply have  less health than anything else.

Like 1 stinger/TGS = death.

This way one can justyfy its high firepower while also meaning that if the enemy is aware and expecting, the heli will go down fast if they start hitting it.

Another slightly more cruel nerf would be to require 100% or above 90% health for the stealth to be available and sustainable.

Someone just landed those 30mm AA shells at you? Well... stealth system malfunction bro!

It is fine if the stealth heli is deadly. It is a vehicle.

It is its defenses that are the problem

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Definitely both good suggestions, either would help considerably to improve the current imbalance.

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:
@RayD_O1there is a very good chance that the changes to the Wildcat will contribute to a much needed amount of dead helicopters.

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Sounds good to me. 🙂

@Straatford87

As a condor/Hind pilot, I felt the need to fully test and express my opinion on this update.
Recent updates were user-first, incorporating user feedback.
I think this is a very healthy game.
I think that's great too.
But I hope I'm overthinking this...
Isn't the identity of the game BF left behind for the pleasure of the user?
I think that the identity of the game called BF is the following two.
1. Evaluate contribution to the team, not just individual killstreaks (think revive and resupply scores)
2. Asymmetry within a mixed team of infantry and vehicles and how they work together (Combat vehicles can get killstreaks, but they're not good at capturing bases. Capturing bases is essential for team victory.)
Of course, you can't make a game just by belief.
However, the reason why I continue to love BF among many games is because I sympathize with this belief.

I'd love to hear from everyone looking at this thread, so please help.
This is a surprise to me as well...
Are you guys not happy with condor/hind's name being "Transport"?
For example, if condor/Hind were to be "air fortress" or "gunship", would it be acceptable?
If so, what DICE does becomes terribly easy.
All you have to do is change the name.

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@Straatford87 wrote:

Hey folks,

Update 1.2 went live in the past hour.

When you next have the opportunity to play, let us know how the Transport (and Stealth helicopters) feel after the update. From our experience, we did see they were too strong versus infantry.

---

The Hind and the Condor are in a good place. It's not nearly as oppressive on infantry since the person operating the 50mm has to be much more selective with what and where they decide to fire their rounds due to the reload speed with this update. However you're still able to provide air support to infantry to help clear out campers for the infantry push when attacking in breakthrough. Good pilots and coordinated squads can still perform well with it. 

@sorikkcI'd love to hear from everyone looking at this thread, so please help.
This is a surprise to me as well...
Are you guys not happy with condor/hind's name being "Transport"?
For example, if condor/Hind were to be "air fortress" or "gunship", would it be acceptable?
If so, what DICE does becomes terribly easy.
All you have to do is change the name.
__________________________________

If that is how it was intended and went in with the Attack helis, then OK.

BUT IT"S NOT AND THAT IS NOT ITS INTENTION.