Hey there,
2023 season has ended and we are approaching season 2024. @ScarDuck14 has already opened a new thread regarding the new season.
See you there!
@TotosHeadphones wrote:
@mariohomohHonestly, it wasn't meant like that, it was more me thinking about licensing issues. I wanted to recommended the BBC podcast on the 2007 Spygate incident some the ago but remembered the Beeb have strict licensing rules
Sorry, it wasn't meant to come across like that, everything seems region locked
The power of VPN gives anyone interested a nice residency around the world.)
@Blackbird90 wrote:
The power of VPN gives anyone interested a nice residency around the world.)
I use Tor browser 😜 A bit slower but you can pretend to be anywhere in the world
Cutting back to @TotosHeadphones podcast suggestion, a few highlights:
Now this... This I thought was just so good I could not let it slide. Even favorited the episode and all. I'll transcribe it, it happens at around the 15:59 mark. It's about vehicle dynamics and how much you should care about those transient moments, when load is shifting around.
It's not just the number, it's just not the headline number of downforce. It's about the transient conditions of the car. Because as I said many times, you come down the straight, the one thing you want going down the street is minimum drag. You don't need lots and lots of downforce, but you want minimum drag.
So the next thing is you either shut the DRS or it's shut anyway because you're not behind another car or it's not qualifying. So at that point in time, you'll want the car to be stable. You get on the brake pedal, you want the car to be stable. You want it to have good grip, especially good rear grip. So the minute you pat the brake pedal, the driver gets confidence, because that's when he gets his confidence to turn the steering wheel. So if he can hit the brake pedal and he's not tiptoeing because he's waiting on the rear end snapping on him, then he'll turn the steering wheel. And when he turns the steering wheel, he wants the car to turn into the corner.
But again, you want the front to turn, but you want the rear to be stable, because that means you'll just attack the corner a little bit faster next time.
When you get to that point in time, you're coming off the brake pedal. So it's about how far can you drive into the corner on the brake pedal and not have the front lock up on you and the car slide wide and such.
So you get to the middle of the corner, and then you want to try and get back onto the throttle. You don't want the car to start to understeer, and you don't want the rear to feel nervous.
So you need a car that balances itself all the way through there. And the things you've got changing all the time is the attitude of the car, the roll of the car, the yaw of the car, and the steering angle. All those things are transient. So you've got to set your targets to suit each of those transient conditions that take you through a given corner.
Now, you can model one corner. It's easy 90º, it's different if it's 180º corner. So every corner is slightly different. But you can model that one corner, and your target should be the fact that you have a consistent balance. That means the center of pressure is shifting in the right direction for every transient condition, and that's part of your targets.
The target is not just a headline number of downforce for drag. It's not just a headline number of efficiency.
And I think that's where if you take Mercedes, that's where they've gone. They've just looked at this headline number and say, oh, look at that. That's fantastic. The downforce level we've got is excellent. They themselves will say the drag of the car is a bit high, and they will say, again, the rear of the car is a bit nervous, so they're always running a little bit more rear wing, which is not a good thing because the rear wing is one of the most inefficient parts of the car.
Rear wing is probably 3.5 to 1 efficiency. The underfloor is probably 10 to 1 efficiency. So it's an underfloor you want to work consistently, but its characteristics need to be right to give the driver that confidence to arrive at the corner, brake late, turn the car aggressively and know the car is secure.
And whenever you see one of these cars take a corner well at speed, it is phenomenal speed they're going at. They're by no means slouches, they are very, very quick. And whenever you see one that's not quite balanced, you'll see it moving, you can actually physically see the rear stepping a little bit. Now the driver feels that, that's a nightmare. So you've got to make sure the targets that you're setting are for all of those conditions. And it's not to say just a headline number.
A true delta of 33 kph is just wrong.. Probably somewhere between 20 and 25 which is still really impressive for DRS, especially up to 25 but its provenly not a difference of 33 kph between having DRS open or not for Red Bull.. Interesting concept though teams able to stall the diffuser or certain wings at the back properly were always in a great place, just like Merc in the second half of 2021
If you were just to have a standalone rear wing, and open the DRS, you would gain maybe 15km/h, that plus the tow from the car in front because in the race you’re always behind a car when you can use the DRS gives you that little bit extra, say 20km/h. Then when the beam wing and diffuser airflow falls over it not only reduces downforce but also reduces drag you get that next step in speed up to Red Bulls 33-34km/h. That’s why it’s all about the complete back end of the car.
In writing. Easier to follow
In context, he was going over Max swooshing past Lewis.
@Blackbird90 In theory we could.. But codemasters wont.. Its really not difficult but they wont start making things really specific.. We have the downforce being reduced in the game when the DRS opens and we have the drag reduction.. Just need both increased for Red Bull and it would be realistic..
Regarding the 33kph delta is not really accurate still..
DRS is more than 15kph, rather ~18 thats also more in line with what Mr. brrrake said in his Video with Alex Gillon about what the DRS should gain (in game 12 kph and the game was visibly slower which wouldnt be to the same extent with only 3 kph more delta)
Then slipstream gains 5-7 kph depending on how long you are sitting in the slipstream, 5 might be accurate for the Hamilton overtake
So we are at roughly 23 now but then Hamilton even said there was no point defending so he didnt use overtake mode - i checked his speeds, he was going 5 kph slower on the straight he got overtaken than the straight before + Red Bulls were genuinely getting to 310-314 kph topspeed without DRS and slipstream - Perez in front just minding his business.. so all things considered the true DRS gain is probably more like 20-23 kph just for those maybe paniking about RB dominance because of a supposedly 33 kph DRS gain - its nonsense taken out of context..
What’s a few kph among friends?
Im gunna put you BOTH over my knee 👋😂
I don’t know what you mean 😇
I'm going to side with a former F1 car designer, former F1 technical director, and accredited F1 journalist who actually knows how to read a telemetry chart and a CFD graph, and knows drag ratios of aero elements by trade and by experience on his breakdown, on audio and written formats both, on this one 🙃
Specially when it is backed up by grounded reasoning on physics and car dynamics.
The written piece is even full of pics to entertain those that usually can't be arsed to read when feeling contrarian, it's no tall order for a fan of the sport 🤷♂️
Please get more worked up, im not gonna bother with it..
😅😅 So umm yeah, that McLaren new management system is different..
Interesting move, with the rumour that Sanchez moving to McLaren coming to fruition. Unfortunately, all my hope has disappeared regarding them bringing a decent car to Baku.
@Meza994What's wrong with Papaya orange? 🤬😤
Yeah, it will take a while with the personnel changes, even with Sanchez being on gardening leave until 2024.
The current car is Keys but it makes you wonder who is in control of future development until the triumvirate start working together fully? It was winter when McLaren noticed their mistake, and it's evident that Key hasn't spoken to the media about the car since the start of the year. So is the forthcoming update his last bit of work on the car?
