F1 23 Crashes to Desktop, No Errors.

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@sirupflex wrote:

@SteveJackson : I just realize (by reading elsewhere) that "Post a dxdiag with mainboard make and model, thanks." means that in addition to the file we should also specify our mainbord brand and model, because it is not in the file. I kindly suggest to rephrase your query, because for me your sentence reads like "I need that file because in that file I especially see the mainboard model". I might not be the only one misunderstanding what you need, so maybe saying "Post a dxdiag and in addition tell me you mainboard make and model" or similar might be helpful.

FYI, my mainboard is a MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 (with 64GB DDR4-3600, 4x16GB memory sticks officially compatible with the mainboard according to MSI compatibility list)

Another FYI: In addition to the T248 race wheel, I have 3 additional controllers attached via USB. A T16000M Flight Stick, the corresponding TWCS Throttle and the Logitech / Saitek Farming Simulation ("Heavy Duty" or so I think they call it) side panel. The F1 23 game behaves in a bit a weird way when you have additional controllers and it takes some creativity to get rid of that. See my community posting here:

https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/PC-Game-constantly-asks-to-setup-additional-controllers-I-don-t/m-p/12759006/highlight/false#M7805

I am mentioning this as we are talking here about controller setting changes crashing the game, so I wanted to share this info. Maybe helps to see some additional patterns for people suffering from these crashes. Just let me know if you need anything else.

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Notwithstanding the post in the other thread about workarounds. Point accepted about question phrasing, however English not your first language, maybe it's not mine! 😇

UEFI 1C0

"All she wrote" apart from I'm sure you have the latest driver packs and updated firmware for your additional controllers. For testing purposes, I'd recommend you unplug them, or at the very least disable them in Device Manager if unplugging is impractical rather than a deliberate choice. I would add the VR headset to that list, reintroduce when the non VR version of the game is as you'd like.

Does the T248 have an advanced mode? Is that DevID 0xB696? Unsure if you have the latest driver pack. Update the firmware to match.

- T248-PS Racing Wheel: V2
- T248-X Racing Wheel: V2.03

Thanks for checking on the drivers @SteveJackson .Yes, the T248-PS has the latest firmware installed, I also checked the T248 firmware installer software before writing here.

I'm not sure what an "advanced mode" is so I cannot answer your question. And again, I do not have an issue with the T248. F1 23 has an issue with handling the hardware_settings XML file properly (or anything coming out of that file) as it seems.

Regarding the motherboard BIOS, yes I am aware that it's not up to date. Motherboard BIOS upgrades are a bit a special story and I only flash them when there is an issue with plausable connection to it (or as last resort for critical, unresolved issues). Even motherboard manufacturers usually recommend not to flash your BIOS unless absolutely necessary.

Again, the T248 generally seems to work fine, but F1 23 seems to crash during the following 1-2 laps when you do a settings change. Until you remove that hardware settings XML file, then it's fine again. So I consider it extremely unlikely that this is related to an issue of my PC config. First of all, it does not make sense, given the error description. Second, tons of users seem to have that or very similar issues (there is a reason why basically your first recommendation around any kind of issues is "delete the hardware settings XML file").

Also here, I would suggest that EA does not try to push over the issue to the user but really tries to resolve the root cause within F1 23 causing this. Maybe it creates a corrupted XML file when updating the values, or writes invalid values and does not properly validate them when reading, whatever.

FYI, still I plan to update my BIOS now, as it has been a while, although I currently have no issues with F1 23 that would even be remotely connected to my motherboard BIOS.

At the moment, things seem to work fine, and I will report back in 1-2 days whether - when not touching anything in the settings area - the game still runs without crashes or not.

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@sirupflex wrote:

Thanks for checking on the drivers @SteveJackson .Yes, the T248-PS has the latest firmware installed, I also checked the T248 firmware installer software before writing here.

I'm not sure what an "advanced mode" is so I cannot answer your question. And again, I do not have an issue with the T248. F1 23 has an issue with handling the hardware_settings XML file properly (or anything coming out of that file) as it seems.

Regarding the motherboard BIOS, yes I am aware that it's not up to date. Motherboard BIOS upgrades are a bit a special story and I only flash them when there is an issue with plausable connection to it (or as last resort for critical, unresolved issues). Even motherboard manufacturers usually recommend not to flash your BIOS unless absolutely necessary.

Again, the T248 generally seems to work fine, but F1 23 seems to crash during the following 1-2 laps when you do a settings change. Until you remove that hardware settings XML file, then it's fine again. So I consider it extremely unlikely that this is related to an issue of my PC config. First of all, it does not make sense, given the error description. Second, tons of users seem to have that or very similar issues (there is a reason why basically your first recommendation around any kind of issues is "delete the hardware settings XML file").

Also here, I would suggest that EA does not try to push over the issue to the user but really tries to resolve the root cause within F1 23 causing this. Maybe it creates a corrupted XML file when updating the values, or writes invalid values and does not properly validate them when reading, whatever.

FYI, still I plan to update my BIOS now, as it has been a while, although I currently have no issues with F1 23 that would even be remotely connected to my motherboard BIOS.

At the moment, things seem to work fine, and I will report back in 1-2 days whether - when not touching anything in the settings area - the game still runs without crashes or not.

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Firmware is always advisable. Nice to have a reflash / downgrade route if possible. 

Thrustmaster wheelbases can be downflashed, just requires the older firmware from the older driver packs. 

Mainboard UEFI BIOS can vary, better boards have USB Flashback or backup BIOS. 

There are downflash options in some scenarios. 

Generally updates are always better, usually uCode for security / errata. AM platforms have AGESA. Intel ME can be flashed independently if required and no manufacturer utility (with care as downflash is usually not possible without hardware programmer).

Edit: Now I know you have the T248-PS, I can clarify the Advanced Mode comment.

Basically the MODE function of the wheelbase is PS4/PS5/PC. If the wheelbase is in PS4 mode it could be detected as Thrustmaster T-GT (compatibility). In PS5 mode it will no doubt be detected as Advanced Racer. AFAIK the T300 is detected as T500 in compatibility mode on PS3. I guess it's the same idea.

Verified here on this support png for the default mapping

Edit 2: More on the hardware_settings_config.xml, yes it's a writeable file that is recreated by the game if it's deleted. It's like starting in "Safe Mode", instead of the game reading the file if present, it recreates it (effectively forcing detection).

Going to ask you for the donkey work here. Delete the file and let it create a new one. Save a copy of the file. (As .txt, reason later)

Change the settings if it's replicable for the crash to happen (you are asserting it is). Save a copy of the changed file (as .txt, don't overwrite the original) 

.txt file in that same game folder will be ignored. Paste the good and bad copies of the file here (you'll have to select all the contents of the .txt file and paste into code quotes from the reply toolbar).

I'll have a look at the file and see what the fix is. It's then possible to easily modify or revert to a working version using those .txt files.

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@sirupflex wrote:
@SteveJacksonThanks, generally agree that it is important to have all drivers and firmwares up to date, of course. Motherboard BIOS is a bit a special case but yes, e.g. micro code updates are important as well. But I'm very selective to flash mainboard BIOS especially on a system that runs absolutely stable. I had it more than once that a stable system after an upgrade was less stable and suddenly had issues.

Agree, I only buy motherboards where you have at least a "plan B" for the BIOS, e.g. the Flash BIOS Button to upgrade BIOS even if the PC does not reboot any more.

I'll wait 1-2 weeks until I flash the new mainboard BIOS. First want to figure out if the reproducible crashes with the hardware settings file are gone as long as I don't touch the settings, and will report back. Flashing the BIOS now would introduce another variable that would not allow a clear conclusion.

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I'm fairly sure (95%) that the firmware update will cure crash issues. It has for many users. There is only one song. When you don't update, you only get the uCode from the date of that BIOS (usually before). New chips have errata. Main BIOS code will have chipset updates also. New chips sometimes require more tweaking. Combined with chipset drivers, stability is generally better. Users usually are reluctant as perhaps clocking options are reduced and thereby slightly performance is impacted. You will always get someone moaning that they lost 4 FPS in TimeSpy or somesuch. No point to speed if it's not stable. Buy the performance you need. "Free" performance by overclock isn't a given. 

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@sirupflex wrote:
@SteveJacksonHaha, fully agree. I never overclock anything and also limited the power consumption of the i7-12700K according to official Intel specifications (mainboard brands usually keep that open to generate high benchmarks results in tests). So my system should be as "standard" as it can be, and I only buy high quality brands incl. a good and appropriately sized power supply. Everything else only leads to issues, indeed. The PC I use is, by the way, a pure gaming PC. It is not used for anything else. There is nothing on there except what I need for gaming (i.e. Steam and the games). Well, Chrome and some few tools like HwMonitor that I manually start when needed for analysis, but nothing else (not even any office software, etc.). The benefit is that it is increadibly stable and the amount of variables influencing the system are as low as it can be.

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Sounds like my PC. There was a phase when other games anti-cheat was breaking games, RGB software, AV suites, probably just tons of user malware most times. 

I find the game quite stable, although some options clearly are suboptimal. 

@SteveJackson : 

Bad news, I just booted my PC, started Steam and loaded F1 23. Didn't touch anything, went straight to the F1 World Time Trials Monza, as usual, and on the first lap the game crashed. So it looks like the "it only crashes when you touch settings" theory is busted. Interesting why it was always stable so far after I removed the hardware settings XML. So far it never crashed directly after I removed the file. But now on the next day it crashes again within the first 1-2 laps.

In the Windows Event log, however, I found the following (and it looks like it was there also with the former crashes):

Two Event Errors within 2 seconds (I think right when it crashed) - sorry, in German but I guess you've seen that Event Error before:

Die Beschreibung für die Ereignis-ID "0" aus der Quelle "nvlddmkm" wurde nicht gefunden. Entweder ist die Komponente, die dieses Ereignis auslöst, nicht auf dem lokalen Computer installiert, oder die Installation ist beschädigt. Sie können die Komponente auf dem lokalen Computer installieren oder reparieren.

Falls das Ereignis auf einem anderen Computer aufgetreten ist, mussten die Anzeigeinformationen mit dem Ereignis gespeichert werden.

Die folgenden Informationen wurden mit dem Ereignis gespeichert:

\Device\000000b5
Error occurred on GPUID: 100

One second later the following warning event:

Der Anzeigetreiber "nvlddmkm" reagiert nicht mehr und wurde wiederhergestellt.

I have the latest nVidia driver 536.67 installed.

Edit: Just to add, I did a system check with SFC and DISM two days ago, after the first crashes, and the system was fine. Also, to mention again, I have games I play many hours in a row and never ever had a game crash or bluescreen of any kind. Looks like now it's indeed time for a mainboard BIOS upgrade.

F1 2023 also crashes on my pc after a lap or two, or just seeing a video of the breaking point story.

All drivers updated. I have dozens of games in steam and I didn't have an issue like this with any other game.

I bought the game this week, I'll only wait a day or two before asking for a refund of the game.

We shouldn't be the ones changing files or looking for workarounds, the game should work as other games do, period.

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@Rumaf wrote:

F1 2023 also crashes on my pc after a lap or two, or just seeing a video of the breaking point story.

All drivers updated. I have dozens of games in steam and I didn't have an issue like this with any other game.

I bought the game this week, I'll only wait a day or two before asking for a refund of the game.

We shouldn't be the ones changing files or looking for workarounds, the game should work as other games do, period.

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You should update your machine. The newer it is, the less it was finished before you bought it.

@SteveJackson :

It's really interesting. After I wrote here around an hour ago, I again deleted the hardware_settings XML file, started F1 23, F1 World Time Trials Monza ... and I was on the race track for full 30mins continuously and no crash occurred. That pattern also still exists. So far, since I bought the game 3 days ago, I tried this 6-7 times, i.e. after a crash deleting the hardware settings XML file, and each time when I did it, with no exception so far, I could then immediately be on the race track with no crash at all. Not a single crash. When I change any settings or, as it was this time, coming back to the game the next day, it crashes consistently on the first 1-2 laps. Not on the 4th or 5th lap, always on the first 1-2 laps. Once the crashes start, I can re-start the game (without deleting the XML file), go on the same race track, and it keeps crashing consistently in the first 1-2 laps. Until I delete again the hardware settings XML file, and so on.

So I guess we have two possibilities:

• Either it is a huge coincidence that it does not crash after having deleted the hardware settings XML file (each single time for all the 6-7 times I tried), while it always crashes within 1-2 laps when it reaches the "unstable state" (statistically pretty unlikely, but not entirely impossible)
• OR it is still somehow related to whatever happens with this file (which is kind of weird as well as a root cause, I admit)

One observation I'd like to add:

When I delete the hardware settings XML file, and start up F1 23 again, then the controller settings and drive assist settings are still here (thankfully). What I have to re-configure each time, however, is the video settings. My PC is connected to a native 4k projector via HDMI. F1 23, when restoring the hardware settings file, sets 1080p as the default resolution. Not sure if that's just a global default you always set or if F1 23 does not recognize the projector's resolution correctly. I have then to set the resolution manually to 2160p and vSync On (projector is fixed on 50Hz, no VRR, etc.), then it's fine and it's fine until again I have to delete the file.

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@sirupflex wrote:

@SteveJackson :

It's really interesting. After I wrote here around an hour ago, I again deleted the hardware_settings XML file, started F1 23, F1 World Time Trials Monza ... and I was on the race track for full 30mins continuously and no crash occurred. That pattern also still exists. So far, since I bought the game 3 days ago, I tried this 6-7 times, i.e. after a crash deleting the hardware settings XML file, and each time when I did it, with no exception so far, I could then immediately be on the race track with no crash at all. Not a single crash. When I change any settings or, as it was this time, coming back to the game the next day, it crashes consistently on the first 1-2 laps. Not on the 4th or 5th lap, always on the first 1-2 laps. Once the crashes start, I can re-start the game (without deleting the XML file), go on the same race track, and it keeps crashing consistently in the first 1-2 laps. Until I delete again the hardware settings XML file, and so on.

So I guess we have two possibilities:

• Either it is a huge coincidence that it does not crash after having deleted the hardware settings XML file (each single time for all the 6-7 times I tried), while it always crashes within 1-2 laps when it reaches the "unstable state" (statistically pretty unlikely, but not entirely impossible)
• OR it is still somehow related to whatever happens with this file (which is kind of weird as well as a root cause, I admit)

One observation I'd like to add:

When I delete the hardware settings XML file, and start up F1 23 again, then the controller settings and drive assist settings are still here (thankfully). What I have to re-configure each time, however, is the video settings. My PC is connected to a native 4k projector via HDMI. F1 23, when restoring the hardware settings file, sets 1080p as the default resolution. Not sure if that's just a global default you always set or if F1 23 does not recognize the projector's resolution correctly. I have then to set the resolution manually to 2160p and vSync On (projector is fixed on 50Hz, no VRR, etc.), then it's fine and it's fine until again I have to delete the file.

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I believe 1080 is the default resolution, yes.

In the dxdiag the default refresh for the projector is listed as 60Hz (p).Game maybe can't get the information from the graphics card about the connected display or chooses the Virtual Display and has no information?

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@SteveJackson wrote:

 

You should update your machine. The newer it is, the less it was finished before you bought it.

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How do you know that I should update my machine?

13600K in a Gaming X MOBO, 850W PSU, 7200 DDR5 RAM... that's not enough updated to play this game?

If not a solution I just want a message or a log that tells what's the cause of the crash.

I guess what Steve meant is that, because your PC has pretty recent components, there's always the risk that drivers, firmwares, etc. are not fully mature yet, so it would be important to ensure you have the latest version of drivers and firmwares. That would at least be my interpretation of the feedback.

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@sirupflex wrote:

I guess what Steve meant is that, because your PC has pretty recent components, there's always the risk that drivers, firmwares, etc. are not fully mature yet, so it would be important to ensure you have the latest version of drivers and firmwares. That would at least be my interpretation of the feedback.

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Exactly what I meant, because it is totally true.

The nvlddmkm issue is an incredibly well known, widely reported bug in every single NVIDIA driver version in the 53X driver set. The last known stable driver was 528.49. I would suggest using DDU in Safemode to completely remove all traces of the garbage driver, and then install the 528.49 drivers.

Thanks for the hint. The strange thing is that this issue only occurs in this very specific situation in F1 23. I didn't have a single crash (or appearance in the event log for this) in any of my other games that I currently play many, many more hours than F1 23. I will, however, keep that in mind as an option to go through if no other solution can be found.

PS: If I stay on nVidia 528.xx driver, then for any issue I report (no matter for which game / software) the immediate answer would be "update your outdated nVidia driver, before that we cannot help" 😉

OK, thanks @sirupflex for the explanation, my bad english misunderstood the post. And thanks @SteveJackson for trying to help.

But as I said on my first post, all the drivers are updated, I triple or quaduple-checked that, also with software to scan drivers.

There is no way to know which was the cause of the crash? I don't want more blind tries because I will go over the 2 gaming hours that will forbid me to ask for a refund.

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@Rumaf wrote:

OK, thanks @sirupflex for the explanation, my bad english misunderstood the post. And thanks @SteveJackson for trying to help.

But as I said on my first post, all the drivers are updated, I triple or quaduple-checked that, also with software to scan drivers.

There is no way to know which was the cause of the crash? I don't want more blind tries because I will go over the 2 gaming hours that will forbid me to ask for a refund.

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I just don’t understand why you don’t post a dxdiag because it happens all the time that people don’t see updates because of the way they check.

Also I never heard of any of my update suggestions causing issues.

The file itself (dxdiag) may highlight combinations of hardware or configurations that can be problematic. WER is also handy and although not always conclusive is helpful in the round.

I will agree Nvidia drivers are spaghetti. 80 of the issues are PCs containing their cards. Different issues, sure.