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mariohomoh's avatar
mariohomoh
Hero (Retired)
2 years ago

Re: Question about the differential adjustment scale

This?

There's only one differential in the drivetrain, linked to the rear axle. The "on" and "off" are two sets of parameters for its functionality, aiming at two different scenarios: when you're on-throttle and when you're off-throttle – crudely speaking, the of rotation offered by the rear axle on corner exits (on-throttle diff behavior) and the rotation offered by the rear axle on corner entry (off-throttle).

The scale is always the same: it's how much locking force the differential will present. 

When fully locked (100%), the axle functions as a single rod and one full rotation of a wheel is matched by a full rotation of the opposite wheel. As you progressively open the differential, you allow the wheels to spin freely and this is key for your cornering ability. When turning, the inside wheel has a much shorter path to take than the outside wheel as it is practically following a circumference of a shorter radius.

Talking differential mechanisms in general terms, with a locked axle the inside wheel will be forced to spin at a higher rate, effectively scrubbing the rubber across the tarmac and creating resistance. With the outside wheel spinning firmly and the inside wheel dragging, the rear end of the car will shift outside (oversteer) and you’ll end up with lots of wear on the inside tires.

It is not as simple as just unlocking the differential though. When you’re on throttle, the engine power will be put down on the tarmac through the easier route – meaning the corner of the car with the least resistance, the one with least traction. That is, the inside wheel, or the wheel that goes through a patch of grass, or the wheel that goes over a puddle of water.

In summation, an open differential will channel the engine power through the corner of the car with the least resistance.

You want a somewhat open diff when entering a corner so that each wheel spins in accordance with the path it has to take – longer on the outside and shorter on the inside. However, you’ll want a fairly locked diff when exiting a corner so that the power won’t be “sapped” from the grippier corner of the car by the wheel with least resistance – you want to make both wheels spin in tandem to straighten up the car and put the pedal to the metal properly.

It is to cope with such diverse scenarios that marvelous engineering machines like F1 cars have quite complex differential system. And it is to compensate for our lack of engineering knowledge that Codemasters boils things down to two different mechanisms, a on-throttle (or power) diff and an off-throttle (or coast) one.

When cornering we have these 5 phases:

  1. Deaccelerating in a straight line
  2. Deaccelerating while rotating
  3. Turning
  4. Accelerating while rotating
  5. Accelerating in a straight line.

We can straight up drop #1 and #5 out of our consideration as no differential has any affect on these two stages.

The on-throttle differential will influence the car behavior on curved acceleration stretches. The diff has no bearing on straight line acceleration. So only stage #4.

The off-throttle differential will influence the car rotation when braking and turning simultaneously or when simply turning. So scenarios #2 and 3.

When accelerating on corner exit, an over locked on-throttle diff will sway the handling to an oversteery car as the system forces the power to be planted through the outside wheel.

Opening up the acceleration diff too much though will result in an understeery car as the power will be channeled to the inside wheel (lesser load thus less grip thus less traction thus less resistance), making it harder to complete the car rotation as the inside wheel will push to increase the radius of your trajectory – understeering.

If you need to come off the throttle on corner exit to avoid the car going wide, increase the on-throttle differential to lock up the axle, delivering more power to the outside wheel.

If you are losing your rear too rapidly when accelerating out of a corner, decrease the on-throttle differential to unlock the driven axle, enabling the power to be distributed more evenly to the wheels.

That tidbit we all carry around in a scrap of paper in our back pockets about how differential works is a tad misleading. Yes, opening up the on-throttle diff will hurt your acceleration potential in curved acceleration zones. However, overshoot your mark and lock it too much and bam, you’re facing the wrong way in a heartbeat! It is a balance game, not an on-off switch.

And balance geared towards your preference, to your driving style. There are drivers that will perform better with a firm, stable, predictable rear end – Vettel. Then there will be drivers with a liking towards a loose, lively, spirited tail to aid them on completing the car’s rotation – Alonso. Admittedly there are more dominant variables dictating the balance between over and understeering, but you get the gist.

Now with the off-throttle differential. It is all about corner entry, your cornering ability before getting back on accelerating.

Over lock your rear axle when coasting will bound the wheels towards a single spinning rate, inducing understeer as the inside wheel insists on spinning too much, widening your trajectory by trying to increase the radius of the turn.

Now if you exceed the grip available to your rear tires as you enter a corner with a coasting differential that is too opened up, either by carrying too much speed or by over braking when turning in, your car will most likely oversteer as each wheel spins unfetteredly and the inside wheel, content to slack on the job given the shorter path ahead, will not sap the outside wheel’s energy. Your outside tire will dominate the turning, pushing for a shorter radius with not much to counteract it.

If you are understeering on corner entry, unlock your off-throttle differential so that the inside wheel is enabled to spin at a lower rate, decreasing the radius of your curve. Opening the coast diff will supplement your car ability to rotate.

If you are oversteering on corner entry too easily or cannot trail brake properly, lock up your off-throttle differential so that your inside wheel is forced to spin more, sapping the energy of the outside wheel. Closing the coasting diff will reduce your car ability to rotate.

I’d suggest starting with as low an off-throttle setting as you’re able to manage. Lock it up only if the track calls for a lot of trail-braking and your car is too unstable under it or if you are simply oversteering all the while confident that your suspension setup is adequate.

In summation and to put it bluntly:

Oh, you’re fonder of the other way of memorizing this dataset? No problemo, *:

The best setting is a rear axle unlocked just enough so that each wheel is enabled to spin at a rate matching the longer (outside wheel) or shorter (inside wheel) path it needs to take to hug the apex just right.

Nonetheless, bear in mind that the differentials are there really to optimize your cornering rate, your corner speed. It is a fine tuning of your turnability. One should not really try to address handling issues by changing the diffs setup first. If we were to rate the influence all these mechanisms have on over- and understeering, the differentials slot in on the lower end of the list. To proper balance the car to your liking here, you should look at wing, springs, and anti-roll bars first.


Most of the above is from an old post of mine back in the original forums. I should probably update it, but that's the gist.

23 Replies

  • Monzstar83's avatar
    Monzstar83
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @mariohomoh on point as usual 👍🏽

    I have a question you may be able to help me with to do with on throttle setting for corner exit, particularly on worn tires. I’ll refer to the previous game as I haven’t really done any races on this game yet to experience the below (mainly doing TT to get my base setups per track atm, also waiting for improvements to AI difficulty, qualifying practice program updates etc, which are due in a patch soon).

    I generally use a low on throttle diff to start the race (in the 55-65 range). I noticed that once my tyres were worn (Jeff says “be careful we think you’re going to lose some grip”), the likelihood of spinning particularly on corner exit increased when on throttle at similar levels to before. My remedy to this (which I chanced upon) was to actually increase the on throttle diff. This helped regain the stability. What would explain this? I would have thought that decreasing the diff would have been the way to go since what I felt I was experiencing was on-throttle oversteer in this low grip state. What do you think?

    🖖🏽

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    2 years ago

    I’m with stupid ⬆️😂

    Same as you dude.  It’s witchcraft 

  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    2 years ago

    @Monzstar83With worn tyres, your grip (and thus, traction) levels will vary even wider between the inside and outside wheels.

    Increasing the locking force of the differential, as you've found out, compensate for that delta by forcing power through both wheels instead of having the inside sapping the power of the outside tyre.

    If you kept your diff just as open as before, when the inside tyre gives in on exit (breaking traction) it would burst into wheelspin and you'd ending up losing it.
    Locking up the diff will provide stability in that scenario, feeding relatively more power to the outside wheel.


    Edit: found this on my notepad, but I'm not sure it's my text:

    A locked differential tries to equalize wheel speeds.

    So a locked differential will reduce turnability on corner entry: you need wheels to spin at different rates to make the corner at a given radius and a locked diff. will try to lock the axle and the wheel speeds. The inside wheel will push the car outwards while the outside wheel will push the car inwards, hindering rotation.

    A open differential on corner entry allows the wheels to spin at different rates and improve the car's turnability.

    On corner exit a locked differential will force equal power to the wheels, so at first just as you get on the power both wheels will spin in tandem but when the unloaded inside wheel breaks its grip and start to spins the engine will still be able to deliver power (torque) to the outside wheel, making the car rotate more.

    With an open power differential at first you've got the wheels spinning at different rates and you're rotating alright, but as soon as the unloaded inside wheel breaks traction the engine won't be able to deliver power to the outside wheel, all that engine power will be wasted at the flywheel not even reaching the driven axle, and the car will accelerate very slowly. The wheels will be spinning at different rates alright, but your acceleration will be severely hampered.

  • Monzstar83's avatar
    Monzstar83
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @mariohomoh top man - thank you. Understood, in that scenario, it’s the lack of grip on the inside tyre causing the issue, rather than the outside wheel as I originally thought 🖖🏽

    As an aside, through my various TT laps to find my base setups, and with the new handling model, I’m much more able to feel the differences that setup make. I’ve learned much more about setups in this release than previous games. Do you feel the same?

    Despite everything else I dislike about this game release, Chapeau EA/CM 🎩 

  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    2 years ago
    @Monzstar83 The handling is top notch, chef's kiss considering what we had before. Kudos for Greco and the team for that! 💕

    Unfortunately I haven't logged many hours in this game since the beta programme. The issues with Logitech wheels just put me off, and I'm never in the mood to set up the rig just play F1 without reassurance that I'm going to have a good, bug-less time.

    Trueforce, FFB cutting out, and FFB strength capped at ~4Nm - all those reports make it tough for me to choose F1 over iRacing or ACC in my free time.
  • Monzstar83's avatar
    Monzstar83
    Seasoned Ace
    2 years ago

    @mariohomoh ah that’s a shame - I’ve seen a lot of posts about that. Totally understandable and no doubt frustrating. They’re investigating a fix so hopefully will have something for those affected soon.

    By that time as well, they’ll have made some decent adjustments to AI levels, practice programs etc. So it’ll be a more “complete” game for you to get stuck into. 

    Which Logitech do you have? The Pro? 

  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    2 years ago
    @Monzstar83 Yep, recently upgraded from my G923 to the Pro! Lovely bit of hardware. Would be frustrated to the brim if F1 were still my main franchise though.
  • AquaOrenji's avatar
    AquaOrenji
    2 years ago
    @mariohomoh I had to doublecheck that I was on the EA forums and not in the iracing forum with an analysis like that. Well done sir.
  • EA_Barry's avatar
    EA_Barry
    Icon for Community Manager rankCommunity Manager
    2 years ago

    Shoutout to @mariohomoh for elucidating us mortals on the dark arts of the differential!! 

    Thanks, really good post.

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    2 years ago

    Don’t know what all the fuss is about…. He’s just c&p one off my old posts 😇😂😂😂

  • dwin20's avatar
    dwin20
    Rising Hotshot
    2 years ago

    When you change the differential while driving - which one is it changing? On or Off? - Thanks

  • peter75pc's avatar
    peter75pc
    New Adventurer
    2 years ago

    Fab explanation how it works! Does this need pinning to the top of the subforum? Mainly so I can find it easier 😋

    P

  • ScarDuck14's avatar
    ScarDuck14
    Legend
    2 years ago
    @peter75pc That will be what bookmark is for…. As I bookmark all the best pages. Such as the one David Greco gave his ultimate setups tips👍
  • Nellix82's avatar
    Nellix82
    Rising Ace
    2 years ago
    @mariohomoh let's see if I'm understanding wear and tear with the car that struggles to enter and then tends to widen it is better to move the acceleration differential from 55 to 60.for example, right?
  • ConesAoPoder's avatar
    ConesAoPoder
    New Novice
    2 years ago

    @Nellix82 not really, struggling to enter de corner has to do with off throttle, the less you have the more rotation you have, and vice-versa.
    On the exit is the on throttle that works: less = more rotation/more oversteer | more = less rotation/more understeer

  • Nellix82's avatar
    Nellix82
    Rising Ace
    2 years ago
    @ConesAoPoder ok so it's a personal choice also based on the setup you have .... pity that from the dmf it adjusts 5 points at a time
  • peter75pc's avatar
    peter75pc
    New Adventurer
    2 years ago
    @ScarDuck14 That is the obvious solution…. Was on nightshifts, so brain not fully functional…. 😝
  • Trekari's avatar
    Trekari
    Rising Hotshot
    2 years ago
    @ScarDuck14 I use the Windows Snip Tool (Win+Shift+S) and past the resulting image into my discord server in a private channel called "notes" for myself.

    That was a remarkable writeup on the differential.

    Could you please link the Greco writeup you mentioned?

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