Shouldn't assists be slower?
Assists are there to help newer players, but they should have a lower ceiling. Why is it that with ABS on you are faster? I enjoy driving without assists and having the real feel of total control ...
Forum Discussion
Also it doesn’t matter who’s using what assists and whether they are OP or not. It’s just a game that we play. If using max assists made me faster and the game more enjoyable to me. Then id use them and wouldn’t care about what assists others I was racing against were using or not using, All you have control over that’s important is what you do in the game and what you get out off it: Getting frustrated about how others play the game is a pointless. Cause like me they won’t care if using assists is the reason they beat you. They wouldn’t even have noticed who they were racing. It’s not a sim it’s played by people from kids to old men like me who are sitting on a couch pad in hand having fun playing a game pretending to be an awesome F1 driver.
Assists are there to help people better enjoy playtime. Even on a pad I’m massively faster without assists: Maybe alittle less consistent lap after lap: depending on track and weather I’ll use any or all assists when doing a 50% plus distance race: Depends on what I want,
I do understand you want to race against likeminded folk who don’t use assists. But dont expect to find them racing against random people in races or leagues that allow them. Just because you maybe able to drive without them it’s unreasonable and unfair to expect assists to be nerfed. As it wil just make average Joe even slower. Where he never stands a chance and gets easily beaten race after race: Before long average Joe along with all the other Joes gives up and goes play another game instead. EA don’t mean about. They have cancelled near complete games in the past when they think a game isn’t expected to make its Margin, Other AAA studios won’t risk paying for the F1 license and development budget needed to make a good F1 game.
So if we want to continue to play a F1 game we need every average Joe to want to buy and play the game. Best way is letting him use assists that give him hope he can do well
my Best suggestion is join a league that doesn’t allow assists.
@ScarDuck14 May I ask around what top nr % are your average time trial times on the leaderboard?
- @TigerAlen410 I don’t know. Time Trial isn’t my thing. As it’s only about putting one good lap together. Do enough TT laps and theirs every chance average Joe could nail a lap and put him up in the top %.
Racing is about consistency. Lap after lap doing fast laps being within 3 tenths of eachother. Only thing I look at is race director post lap to check that I’ve accomplished that along with a decent finish. More often than not when tyres have optimal grip my lap times on majority off tracks will be within 3 tenths, The ultimate goal would be with a tenth, most I’ve managed is 6 consecutive laps. But as it was also a Spa which is a long lap. I was very pleased. @TigerAlen410 in the meantime you can share a clip of your driving with the HUD on, showing your inputs. Having a second pair of eyes going over your lap is always helpful, and perhaps someone can contribute with the constructive criticism necessary to allow you to leave poor drivers with assists back in the dust?
Or if you're performance oriented and know your way around telemetry, like many of the top simracers (iRacing, ACC) and even players (F1) do, I'm sure some of the more experienced among us would love to sit down and help you go over your inputs to shave a few tenths here and there.
Telemetry is even more useful as it makes it easier to share a whole stint - and as it's been discussed many times before, being able to be consistent and deliver lap times on the same ballpark is one of the hallmarks of a above average player.
This is all about being a helpful community and elevating each other, isn't it?
I don't see how knowing this or that guy personal best time could be of any use. Reasoning being twofold:
- Lap times, in the nude, are a poor parameter for one's knowledge. If you catch someone giving wrong advice, you should be able to point out where and why they're wrong regardless of how "fast" they are.
- Many of the top billed coaches in the simracing community have been champions themselves, indeed. Many have not ever won anything worth writing home about, though.
My question about his time trial was not to say oh you are not that extremely fast so your advice is invalid, you got it wrong.
I'm well aware that you don't have to be very fast but can still have lots of experience and knowledge.
It was more because I assume he must be amongst the fastest drivers and most experienced so probably abs off is not really slowing him down, but for most of us average Joe's it's hard.
I've only started playing f1 22, and started with assists, with f1 23 I transitioned to no assists so I'm well aware that my skill level is probably low, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, I did use telemetry to try to compare to the best drivers but I try to do something more similar to them and I'm even slower.
I flashback a single corner and try to go through it like hundred of times no joke, trying different things with braking with acceleration with braking points and I can't drive through it better or maybe a couple of hundreds sometimes, and yet I lose like 3 or 4 tenths against the top players in that very corner...so I am clueless what I do wrong and this is with ABS btw, when I turn it off like I said I'm much slower even.
Yeah I can post a lap for you guys if you want if you might be able to help me I didn't know thats allowed here.
- @TigerAlen410 Ya know, this is only a guess. But from what you’re saying, I’ve got an idea what’s going on.
You’re probably just trying too hard. Lol You’re probably braking to harshly, turning the car too violently, and jumping on the throttle too rapidly. All of that can scrub speed. And the harder that you make the assists work, the slower you go. I used to do the same. I’d redo one corner a million times, and start marginally slowing down each time. And then id go through it without really thinking too hard and boom, 1-3 tenths outta nowhere. Just gotta be patient and smooth. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast! @GrantyPanty69@mariohomoh @ScarDuck14
Ok guys, here you go
Don't have alot of time so went into game and did laps on 3 tracks, just did 1 or 2 laps so far from perfect, in bahrain for example I messed up badly in two corners.
Austria and Bahrain have slight room for improvment in time I think like max 0.2-0.3... Imola is far from ideal, just did some laps here in time trial, still 0.5 or 0.8 room, but i don't feel like there is more, so i don't know what im doing wrong...
Because it feels like I do things decently, but yet can't find more time, and yet my times are seconds behind the best in leaderboard
My feeling on these types of questions about ABS etc. is that EA/CM is SELLING the fantasy of being a FAST F1 driver.
Take away the fantasy by nerfing ABS etc. and people will cry like never before imo.
Leagues face the same problem if they ban ABS etc. people wont show up. This makes competitive people jump to what works Jarno himself would jump to ABS if his competition was allowed to and FASTER....there is no shame in this.
As for the vid the steering is too twitchy need to slow something down to smooth it out imo.
Interesting conversation. I haven't anything really to add on the debate regarding assists being faster or slower and whether they should be needed. I understand @TigerAlen410 when you say you're finding it difficult that leagues aren't being filled due not being able to have a ban on ABS. Anybody would find it frustrating when you want to play with similar skilled players where you feel your competitors are on a level playing field.
After watching your video I will say this though, you may have to give up on the dynamic racing line assist. If I'm honest, I've been using the racing line as a crutch on games as I'm useless at finding braking points and I don't have the time to learn all the tracks. Recently I decided to stop using it and I've found that when I have figured out my points, I've been gaining time. As helpful as the dynamic line is, it can change your braking points and make your trailbraking less efficient. I've had to relearn how to trail brake as I was relying too much on the the dynamic line turning yellow to indicate I should begin easing off the brake. I doubt that this is the fastest way to drive. Give it a try, you never know
- @BadMayh3m Plus use more track. Stay out Wider than the games racing line, turn in before racing line, so your inside wheels go over kerb and hit apex. If your still running wide on corner exit it’s because your braking to late. Slow in fast out. Or slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Ok I’m an old man. Everyday I wake up and something new on my body is broken. So not that as fast as I used to be. But it’s irrelevant and this is my point. I have nothing to prove. I don’t play racing games to Git Gud. I play cause I like playing F1 games. 800ish hours a year on each game. I’m now passed my peak. So the only reason I’d ever bother sweating over lap times is if I decided I wanted to compete in F1 E-Sports as it’s the only properly recognised series with proper prize money for me to bother making the effort. But as I said I’m passed my best and all the E-Sport kids are already faster than me. So no point.
Which leads me back to I play for fun. It’s a game if people want to use assists to help them get more fun out of the game then that’s fine. Majority of players play for fun. On purposely nerfing assists just so the minority of elitist sweats feel better about beating a casual player. No. Cause average Joe still beat them and rather face up to the fact they are just not very good they will complain something else is OP. F1 2020 they cried that controllers were OP.
Sorry but it still annoys me that people complain about use off assists in a game that is played by every age and skill level for a few hours off fun @ScarDuck14 You're entitled to be annoyed, nobody should be telling you how to play a game, especially when the developer has added options to help your experience in said game. But on the other hand, I do see the other side of the argument when social and multiplayer factors come into it.
Maybe I've read it wrong, or just trying to be open to the point that is being made, but I don't think @TigerAlen410 is being hostile towards users of the ABS assist. We are all playing the game how we wish to play it (barring trolls ruining your race online), some play for fun, some play for competition, some play just to improve themselves and reach targets. It's difficult to fix when the multiplayer experience is vastly different to the single player experienceHey @TigerAlen410
Screenshots from the frame the brake input pops up. Emoji hands always pointing to the white line for reference.
T10, opening up the flying lap:
T1:
T3 (or T2, depending on your faith):
T4:
@ScarDuck14 and @TotosHeadphones right on the money. By the way, a few paragraphs I wrote sometime ago in a different forum regarding the racing line assist:
The racing line can help you learn your way around a new track, as long as you apply a proper learning methodology to it. Actively look for braking markers, turn in points, and actively training yourself to look ahead in the distance. The usual good stuff you'd be doing if you were to learn a track without the RL assist.
Once you learn a track though, keeping the race line on sort of inevitably and involuntarily make you slower.
When you have it on, even though you're putting the effort to drive despite it, you instinctively register the cues to brake (red line) and to get on the throttle again (green line). And that will mess you up when you're racing.
As in, even if you know how to control the car and even if you've developed a feel for the FFB, once you're on the outside lane to, say, defend a position and are totally on top of the proper inputs to do so cleanly, just subconsciously registering that red/green line can make you instantly override your good judgement and respond to those cues again.
And that's assuming the programmed racing line actually uses the full width of the track. As you can see from the screenshots above, it definitely does not. The racing line assist will rarely, if ever, be the fastest way around the track. Its sole purpose is to give you cues for the general track markers, just that.
Now back to the general point, there's this unhealthy and misplaced obsession with assists and setups in the general F1 community. It's like fuming over VAR execution in the Premier League when all you do is play on the Sunday league with your buddies. This is not a dig at you @TigerAlen410 mind you, just a general comment on how off the mark these discussions can get. Worrying about the hundreds to a couple tenths, tops, that elite players can get using assists while the average joe could gain two full blown seconds just by working on the fundamentals of good driving.
I genuinely feel this franchise is not worth your time if you're looking into simracing or being competitive. This is a simcade title. The game is glaringly exploitable, the general player base largely uneducated. EA F1 should not be taken more seriously than calling up a couple pals and having a FIFA showdown on the weekend.
This is a pastime. There are copious amount of joy and satisfaction to get out of this franchise and other proper simracing titles, as long as you know what you're in for. Wasting energy on ABS or TC like these players do all the while not being able to turn in two laps in the same 0.2s to save their lives is thoroughly misguided – and unjust to ourselves.
It's like Stephen Hawking once said. Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Ok so people saying to use more of the track, ok from the screenshots I can definitely see it, but the difference is not massive.
Also my steering is too twichy, in what way, how should I improve it?
But I kind of doubt those 2 reasons are costing me such a vast amount of time, maybe I could get 2 or 3 tenths in the whole lap with these things?@TotosHeadphonesHaha what do you mean? I posted it on Reddit a while ago I think, don't remember ever saying it here.
@TigerAlen410put in the time, then turn up with the results. There's 1-2 tenth BY CORNER just from not using the whole track, and the T4 is definitely a "massive" difference when we're dealing with a sport of so fine margins.
That's assuming your braking points, track in and track out points are correct. Once I caught the racing line bit, I didn't bother checking those. You'll have to adjust them to your new line anyway so 🤷♂️
And it is not only about the skill ceiling. You absolutely need to elevate the skill floor as well. Get consistent. Worrying about what fine adjustments devs should be making to ABS and TC is nonsensical at this point.
Consider getting into telemetry as well. Throttle, brake and speed traces do not lie. There are a couple of telemetry services for F1 where you can compare your inputs to others', from the top of my head there's Track Titan and... F1 Laps? Heh, it's been a while.
They will literally, literally tell you how much time you're losing on each corner.Edit: though this could also be attributed to wing settings, even your speed at the braking zones goes from lower to significantly lower relatively to the reference lap in those 4 corners alone. You're severely underestimating the performance impact of your choice of line.
When you turn the wheel the car slows down. The more you turn it the more you slow. Trick to being fast is keeping your wheel straight. Adding the smoothest and Minimum amount of steering angle through the corners and then open the steering asap. You need to make corners as short as possible by taking them as straight as possible. Granted I didn’t watch it all but I’m smoother and more precise and. I use a controller.
Well I will definitely try all those things you guys said and hopefully see some improvement.
The only one im afraid of is the racing line since like some user says the color changes were a bit of a reference when to ease the breaks etc... i feel like its going to be extremely hard without this.
For a quick telemetry comparison:
- Track Titan
- F1 Laps
- EA's Racenet - Never used it, but I remember getting excited when the service debuted
There's probably more, I don't know. F1 23 handles nicely, but I've drifted away from this franchise pari passu with their stagnation. As I've said, if you want to be competitive or to at least be rewarded for your time and effort, there are better titles out there.
Rewarded in fun and excitement, mind you. No "woohoo I'm a mean simracer I bet I could take on Latifi in go karting!" foolish attitude.
Simracing is a hobby and though there are definitely those that take it quite seriously, whenever I mention the likes of iRacing and ACC I'm referring to having fun. Hone a skill, and get rewarded with better lap times and better racing.
I'll gladly give a wide berth to those simracing elitists. Fortunately they're a minority, and the community around those titles is veritable wholesome.
