We're not stupid

@Nellix82 you're comparing a simcade to a simracing title. A product for the masses and a boutique service. A family wagon to a Maserati.

I must have 60h between ACC and iRacing only in 2024.

They're completely different products aiming at different audiences. Yes, there's an overlap between players, but it is WAY smaller than what you suggest.

Apples and oranges. Which one would I like to have, a Toyota Corolla or a Porsche 911 GT3 R? Both, because I'd rather take the Porsche out when I want to have fun but would most definitely prefer to drive my wife and kids in the Corolla when going out to the supermarket.

Again, Codemasters F1 is failing in my opinion. But comparing then to ACC and iRacing makes no sense.

Doesn't make sense even to Kunos. Aris would frequently dismiss comments on why they do not make a F1 game during his live streams. 

A simracing F1 title? That would be a dream! But that is NOT what Liberty Media wants.

@Nellix82 Hey Nellix, just wanted to shoot some numbers here.

Kunos is not a publicly traded company per se but it is owned by Digital Bros Digital Entertainment. You can find their financial reports here.

From their latest quarterly report for the fiscal year 23/24:

So the whole Assetto Corsa franchise (AC + ACC) made € 5.3m in that quarter. Is it safe to assume that it totals around 20-21m per year? Well, I guess it does. From their consolidated financial statements for 2023:

  The revenue of Premium Games as of June 30th, 2023, amounts to Euro 92,319 thousand [...] with remarkable Euro 24.6 million sales coming from the different versions of the video game Assetto Corsa, created by the in-house studio Kunos Simulazioni

There's also some neat numbers for their player base distribution between console and PC as well if you dig around. In a nutshell, console grew up significantly.

Now, F1. Hard to gauge as EA bunches up all their sports franchises. And their quarterly revenue are in the billions. You can find it all here. But I've got this old Codemasters' financial report from before the acquisition by EA and it is fortunately still available online here. There are several things in that report that... well, one could say that aged like milk, but here's what it says about F1 2019's performance:

So in 2020, Codemasters had a revenue of £76 million (€89.8 million) driven mostly by F1 2019 + GRID, while in 2019 they accrued £71.2 million between F1 2018 + DiRT 2.0 + ONRUSH (€84.1 million). I guess it is safe to assume that F1 was the one doing the heavy lifting?

That's a bit higher. Even if it accounted for only half of 2019-2020's revenue, F1 games would have netted Codies about 45 million euros vs the 21-24m that AC + ACC made for Kunos. Adjust those 2020 figures against inflation and.. heh.

What about moderns games? Hard to say, there are some estimates online specially around Steam numbers, but they do not seem reliable enough. F1 very often makes it to the top of UK's and Europe's sales charts though. And there's no way to glimpse into the microtransactions revenue.

Edit: Nellix if you're on PC and miss having fun online, you should really look into iRacing. They're going heavy in open-wheel/formula racing this upcoming season (March). Their league system is top tier, plus their obvious online features and open lobbies.

The Super Formula car is crazy fun.

Sorry, if this comes off a bit scatterbrained as I'm going to answer a few different topics that cropped up because I had to go AWOL to deal with a few IRL things for a while.

@Nellix82 The game is going to come out in annual instalments because EA is a corporation. Employees would like to be paid and shareholders need to be fed end of story.

@mariohomoh I apologize if this is not why you were putting numbers up but for comparisons sake NBA2K## (search revenue for any game in like the last half decade) generates U.S. $1billiion annually. And that's just one game from 2K, who is much smaller than EA. The F1 license will belong to EA as long as they want it unless the FIA suddenly decides they no longer like money.

Yes, I know we all had our hopes up that F1 24 would be a massive step forward for the franchise, and the fact that it's still on last gen consoles probably puts a cap on what can be achieved, which is disappointing. But if an underwhelming F1 24 ruins your year your either living a spectacular life or your priorities are in straight reverse. Not to mention most of the doom posting is based off of what a 31 second promo clip that hardly reveals anything?

@TheRagebeard not sure I follow?

NBA 2K? Published by 2k which is owned by Take Two?

That's 5bi vs EA's 7bi dollars yearly revenue.

Not to downplay 2bi, but there's... quite a lot of IPs under Take Two. Including Rockstar's GTA.

@mariohomoh Sorry, like I said, long week, little scatterbrained, let me elaborate.

2k is probably the only company that could take a realistic run at the license. Couple problems though, they're undoubtedly pouring significant resources into GTA VI so taking on a new big-name IP and building in from the ground up probably not high up on the list of priorities. Secondly, for every microtransaction in F1 right now there's at least 10 in NBA 2K## so they're hardly a savior, which I guess leads to the larger point I was trying to make.

I've noticed for several year now, even back when I was just a lurker on the old CM boards that people like to say things like "If only so-and-so had the F1 license this game would be so much better". Problem is small studios don't have the money for the license, big studios need to sell stuff quickly to satisfy shareholders.

Then there's problems on the consumer side to. Casual players want a more arcade experience because they just want to out there and race with Verstappen, Hamilton and the gang while hardcore players want a sim experience that puts their abilities to the test. Satisfying everyone is never an option. Even in F1 24 had been next gen only and built from the ground up using UE5 I'm sure people would have found plenty of things to complain about.

Anyway, maybe it's just the topic of the thread title, but I guess I just feel like people are getting way way way too worked up about this.

Sorry for the rants...

End Rant.

@TheRagebeardBrother from another mother 😁. Nothing wrong with a rant or two… I feel one coming on myself 

This is what many don’t seem to realise. Many maybe most players want to able to immerse themselves in F1 racing on the same tracks for their favourite team and going wheel to wheel with Max and Lewis and dreaming about what could have been if they got a Go-Kart on their 8th birthday.

One of the most common things people complain about is immersion or lack of it. Multiplayer is racing against randomly skilled people who also have vastly different ideas about sportsmanship that are sporting random Liveries who are all driving cars of equal performance. It’s far from F1

@Nellix82 @If the game isn’t up to your standards then don’t buy it. No one is forcing you to buy it year after year.

This franchise may not be for you. I know you want it to be a full sim but that’s not what they’re aiming for. they want it to be accessible to as many people as possible. 90%+ of the people who buy this game don’t want to spend hours tweaking their car setup just to get through the first two turns because the physics engine is so complicated and convoluted.

i say this half jokingly, but honestly we’re lucky they haven't implemented banana peels, turtle shells, or invincibility stars yet because for the record Mario kart sold 8 million copies in 2023 alone. Couldn’t find totals for f1 23, But I think MK8 wins.

TLDR approachable games sell well and make a lot of money

@TheRagebeard to buy or not is an unconstructive answer.....if they are making fun of me since we also sweat the money like them it bothers me if I pay for a product full of bugs that doesn't work especially based on an old thing... ..we are in freedom and therefore I say what I think you are not obliged to answer if your answer is don't buy it it is the classic empty answer without offense. then maybe in a month I'll be surprised with a double version and I'd be the first to change my mind but I think they made an announcement like that to get as many bookings as possible... all the YouTubers are disappointed, not just me 

I think its hilarious that people are desperate for Unreal engine in this game.

You realise Asseto Corsa 2 coming out this year will not use Unreal because the team had a terrible time with Unreal in Assetto Corsa Competition, as its notoriously difficult for racing games and takes a performance hit. (its also just a s blurry as the ego engine)

Look at the WRC game in Unreal in Codies hands it looks terrible 

Why people are desperate for this I cant understand when a better racing game team in AC have dumped it.

Codemasters has the rights to the madness engine which looks superb and runs great on hardware, they can implement their own tyre model and physics instead of using the project cars seta model etc. That would be a better fit than unreal 

The fact the new game has F1 world still in it proves they are tone deaf. Enjoy deep diving through the F1 world menus just to get to time trial again 

@Nellix82It's perfectly constructive and the most sane answer to your issue. It's a perfectly fine means to answer because at the crux of your argument, you're making it sound that you as an individual have to purchase the game and that EA are doing you dirty because they have not changed engine to "less" bug filled engine.

As has been stated by @TheRagebeard, EA/CM they don't have to release games to satiate your need for a new engine, that will release what they feel is needed to fulfil their obligations to their shareholders and workforce.

Don't buy the game. Or wait until release to see the outcome. Or stop hinging everything on the fact that last gen consoles are still being developed for. Or just temper your expectations

@Nellix82

We all know the bugs etc, it's well documented.

"Would you buy a car that they sell you as new then find it with things that don't work? "

No, I would use common sense and wait for the manufacturer to release ALL the details and wait for reviews without spending money.

Currently, EA/CM have shown us a teaser. Just a teaser.

To use your car analogy, we don't even know what's under the hood of this game. You are basing a lot of your displeasure on your pre-existing experience of the previous games, which is fair. However, we have seen no gameplay, no talk of anything, just a release date.

Tell me, would you pre-order a car (or be annoyed with the manufacturer) they sell you as the next model without one bit of information? They haven't told you the BHP or told you if it's an automatic only? I'm sure you would wait patiently for information before you make the decision to buy the car? I know I would.

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@Nellix82 wrote:
@TotosHeadphonesthe problem is not mine as already said I don't think I'm stupid.....never talked about the game engine. maybe you don't read well.....and it's certainly not you who decides what to say or make me do...

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Hey, Nellix

43 posts in this thread. Can you point to a single comment, a single user who said they were OKAY with the state of this game? 

No one is. We all agree with you on a fundamental level.

Now there's been plenty of tangents here, ranging from how people have the wrong idea on how a game engine functions to business models in the videogame industry. But not a single soul is happy with the game.

At the core of it all, what's been repeated time and time again in this thread:

• It's an announcement trailer 
• It's unreasonable to make any sort of verdict until the actual reveal in April

Keep it civil, mate. If it were some out of touch fanboy telling you you're off keeled for complaining, ok. But you're verging on being uncivil with people that on a fundamental level all agree with you on how unsatisfactory this franchise is right now - to say the least.

See here's the real secret to life. Instead of letting my life revolve around the success or failure of 1 game. I diversify and take an interest in many things. In this case I think I'm going to go scratch the RPG itch and play some FF7 Rebirth and let you all handle the rest of this conversation to nowhere. I'll see yall in like a week... assuming the board hasn't been burnt to the ground before then.

P.S. Without realizing it I included a second secret to life, knowing when to let go. The odds of anything constructive coming out of this thread are pretty nil at this point so I would encourage everyone to resist the urge to respond further and just let the fire die out. 

Love,

TheBeard

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@Nellix82 wrote:
@TheRagebeardI'll answer you in a very simple way....what's new about this game since you don't change the game engine and therefore the graphics? Nothing, why pay 90 euros for it? For new lives and the tweaks to the physics? There's nothing more about the sim now and all a preset therefore all an arcade let's remove the sim......the video shown doesn't say anything true but it says that to run on oldgen you can't use a more powerful engine and with it you bring a thousand bugs and more that's all.. .

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I really don't understand why you are repeatedly saying things like this when right now we all know basically nothing about the new game. Let's see what actually gets announced, and ultimately gets released.