esports drivers say the updated handling is a step back
i totally agree. front end is still too sharp and unrealistically too fast.
Forum Discussion
@shery_a_coleslaw The changes - and it werent many - were not made to make the cars slower - in fact they barely got slower on a select few tracks..
Sliding through corners and being faster that way - unrealistic
some weird midcorner oversteer in low speed corners? unrealistic
Were the changes perfect? Far from it, do some esports drivers also say it improved things and people shouldnt try the same super egdy setups with the new handling? Yes some do
Its all not as easy as there were MANY complains of Esports drivers, drivers that had IRL experience with racing cars, so they had to change things.
Sliding through corners and being faster that way - unrealistic
some weird midcorner oversteer in low speed corners? unrealistic
Were the changes perfect? Far from it, do some esports drivers also say it improved things and people shouldnt try the same super egdy setups with the new handling? Yes some do
Its all not as easy as there were MANY complains of Esports drivers, drivers that had IRL experience with racing cars, so they had to change things.
@Meza994
I used egos erp archiver to export the XML of the FOM car which is what's used for equal performance and I did notice how little was actually changed for how drastically different the cars felt.
Something that's quite interesting is that I've seen quite a few people report that they had a mid session save that they loaded back up after the update and the cars in that session had the old handling model which is quite perplexing since you'd expect this to be primarily driven by the erp files but maybe this stuff is changed on the fly more than what we previously assumed so I'm not even sure how much doing erp analysis is even accurate anymore.
I used egos erp archiver to export the XML of the FOM car which is what's used for equal performance and I did notice how little was actually changed for how drastically different the cars felt.
Something that's quite interesting is that I've seen quite a few people report that they had a mid session save that they loaded back up after the update and the cars in that session had the old handling model which is quite perplexing since you'd expect this to be primarily driven by the erp files but maybe this stuff is changed on the fly more than what we previously assumed so I'm not even sure how much doing erp analysis is even accurate anymore.
- @shery_a_coleslaw Well the changes have also been in the tyrecompound files changing the tyre behaviour at certain loads, thats probably a problem for some as it got a bit more understeery at low loads and oversteery at high loads..
Anyway with Codemasters bug-record in recent years i wouldnt be surprised that your problems are just a bug where the game cant properly differentiate between the handling models or something like that, when it really reloads the old files which for some reason are still in the game it seems- @Meza994 I have the old versions of the tyre compound erp files too so I'll do some analysis of that in a bit and see how things were adjusted to try and understand but overall the low speed grip was pretty solid prior to the update. You had to brake before turning in and when you let off the brakes you could feel the car grip up and let you carry speed through the corner whereas now you brake essentially how you did in previous games where you brake hard and then trail off as you turn but in real life if the drivers have brake input while turning then the fronts lock which Is something the game did perfect at release.
The driving experience does still need further improvement but you have to remember that the esports and youtubers are min-maxing everything, using extreme setups and driving in an inherently unrealistic way to get the best laptime possible. I heard a few say the cars are 3 seconds faster than they should be, but they say that using setups they would never use in real life, on time trial which has no fuel or weight transfer, tyre overheating or tyre wear and perfect track conditions. So i'd take everything they say with a pinch of salt personally.
Plus lets face it, most of us are not at that level!
Took me a little longer than I wanted to get around to doing this but I've posted some charts below where I've plotted the values for Peak grip, DownSlope, UpSlope and Shape against Load as it's defined in the context of Lateral Load and Longitudinal Load for the C5 compound. I pulled the data using the EGO ERP archiver application which I used to examine the tyrecompounds.erp file and then extract and save the XML contained within. I have the data from this file for both the launch version and the 1.3 patch.
I believe that the 'Peak' value as it's used here is the peak Lateral or Longitudinal force that the tyre can generate at a given Load. This data appears to indicate that the Lateral grip of the front tyres in medium-high load situations has been lowered in the new patch. In addition this shows the peak Longitudinal grip of the rear tyres was also lowered which is the primary tyre force at play during acceleration and when braking in a straight line.
The DownSlope value represents the rate at which the Lateral/Longitudinal grip decreases after reaching the peak grip. Once the tyre starts to slide, the Lateral and Longitudinal grip typically drops off, and the DownSlope quantifies this reduction. A higher DownSlope should indicate a sharper decline in grip once the tyre surpasses the peak force. As you can see in the charts above the Lateral DownSlope has been increased significantly whilst the Longitudinal DownSlope has remained the same.
UpSlope I believe to represent the rate at which the Lateral/Longitudinal force increases as the slip angle increases, up to the peak force. This would define how quickly the tyre builds up Lateral/Longitudinal force as it starts to slide. Ultimately I believe this indicates how quickly a tyre will reach its peak force in the Lateral or Longitudinal direction. The data above appears to indicate the tyres no longer reach their lateral peak as quickly.
Shape is a bit weird to me but I think this defines the overall shape of the Lateral/Longitudinal force vs. slip angle curve. This would influence how gradual or abrupt the transition is from the peak force to the post-peak region. This data doesn't tell us much since we don't know how they're applying it to the other values in the game but these would apply a smoothing function to the other values in some way.
Hopefully someone who knows more than me can do a better analysis on what the data actually means and I hope if I'm misunderstanding anything that someone can correct me.
@shery_a_coleslaw Is there either real F1 data available, or data from other games (thinking of iRacing) that could be used to reproduce the charts you have done to compare with. These are really good - and makes the discussion more about facts and less about opinion. Thanks!!
Community Highlights
- EA_Vendcera2 years ago
Community Manager
