I'll ask him and see if we can find a decent time where we are free for some Q&A action.
We'll it'll be David, not me. Anyone can drive in the midfield every Friday. I'll look to move a lot of the stuff we are used to seeing into EA Answers as we escalate transition.
EA Staff (Retired)
@DavidG53 wrote:
@Just_Dave_Mtook advice from Meza and Mario and others lol and made slight adjustment to tyre surface temps being a little too aggressive now, and tyre wear being affected too much by pressures. I'd love to improve tyre pressure grip, tyre slip drop off with load, low wings efficiency, refine engine torque further, change the aero map.... But then we would never have a final handling :D. I am always trying to improve.
Other than that slight temp/wear tweaks and hopefully auto gear tune, yes is final.
Have a word with other departments there are some members in the community which great knowledge and marios huge brain who can and want to help freely. They shouldn’t be so guarded. And the beauty off the members is they are not pro drivers who would push game to be out off reach off us mere mortals. Average gamers make better games
And I just want good gameplay and the end off all game and ai cheats and poorly implemented scripts. So wouldn’t ask my opinion but I put in hours
@taattor I'm on console so can't check the files, but if the new throttle response time was achieved by tweaking the torque values then yes, it's different already!
Unless all they did was adding a delay to the powertrain. These power curves are often made with the torque measured at the crankshaft, with the engine sitting on a bench or whatever. It takes a while for all that power to reach the wheels and some of it is lost along the way - which is why BHP and HP values are never the same by the way, but that's irrelevant here. If it's only the response time, and the torque values stay the same, then the charts are accurate. Let's wait for @ActuallyImJulie kindness to blossom again 🤣
@chasey-k you're most definitely right, mate. We upshift so that the upper gear engages right there in the power band, at the crest or near the crest. The upshifting moment may coincide with a drop on the curve but just incidentally; what really matters is keeping the engine always revving in or around the crest for maximum performance, you're most definitely correct in that.
That's why I prefaced by saying I was too lazy to take the gear ratios into account and would only "guess" the upshifting point haha
If the ratios are close enough that upper gear is engaging at the cusp already, then we should definitely upshift a bit earlier to avoid the sharp power drop-off.
On a side note, knowing the power band is hugely beneficial for timing downshifts too. Both for engine braking and for knowing when to hold a gear for longer nearing a braking zone.
@ScarDuck14 if anything, I bring in freely an infinite supply of requeijão and pão de queijo 🥰
@taattor yep, pretty much you just have to be mindful of what rev range you're putting your engine into when you downshift. If you're losing the car while braking, be gentler with the downshifting so that the lower gear is engaged in a less powerful rev range, reducing engine braking and keeping the tyres in their working range grip wise.
For anyone trying to wrap your head around it:
Engine braking is the exact same process as putting power down, but reversed. So when you downshift and hit low gears in a high RPM range, just as the acceleration would be too strong if you were on the throttle the braking (deceleration) done by the engine is too strong and may be way more than what your driven wheels can handle at that moment - hence the rear stepping out and you losing it.
This makes sense when you really entertain the idea of your powertrain (engine + transmission + wheels + all the shafts and axles linking them all together) as one closed system. Engine speed (RPM) and power output are linked to whatever is happening to the wheels and vice versa, unless that link is briefly interrupted by engaging the clutch.
The higher the RPM, the higher the energy being input in that system by the engine, regardless of the gear you're in. That's why dyno charts with power + torque curves vs RPM do not specify the gearing; it's all the same.
How much of the engine power output at a given RPM will be used to turn the wheels harder (torque) or turn it faster depends on the gear ratio engaged in your transmission. You know all that basic stuff: 1st gear makes your wheels turn really hard but not very fast, so only useful to launching the car or to accelerate from very slow speeds, while 8th gears will enable you to reach top speed but good luck trying to make the car move from a standstill with it engaged. But then again, the engine power being injected in the system at say 10000RPM will be the same, no matter if you're on 1st or 8th gear.
What gives, when you stop feeding gas to the engine the whole system gets inverted! Now it's not the engine driving the wheels, but the engine sapping the wheels energy. The wheels would be content to keep on spinning at their original rate (inertia) but now not only they're not receiving power anymore, they have the engine cylinders coming to a stop.
Now when you downshift from say 4th @10000RPM and disengages the clutch, the driven axle is suddenly linked to an engine running at @12000RPM in 3rd gear which a significantly higher gear ratio - as it is a closed system, the wheel speed and the engine speed will match and keep up with one another. The engine braking works at basically the same rate as if it was inputting power into the wheel.
So it will slow down your wheels even more the more you downshift. Braking is the same as acceleration anyway, just the direction of the force that is inverted, so it makes sense that the lower the gear the stronger the effect, thanks to the transmission. Get to 150kph in a high gear, lift and check how long it will take to reach e.g. 40kph, then do the same thing in 2nd or 1st gear - you slow down much faster!
The extra rotation you get comes from the engine draining power from the driven axle and slowing you down. If it so happens that you lose the rear, it's just that the mechanical braking force + the suddenly higher engine braking force exceeds the grip between tyres and tarmac and the rear wheels start to slide.
@taattorOh I see!
I wouldn't worry about the differential setting in this scenario, mate. Brake bias should be of greater concern as it has a direct impact on braking.
The diff will influence the handling once the wheels have different grip thresholds and torque demands, load dependent. But it's not usual to adjust the locking setting having braking in mind when the diff has a way more important role on rotation. It's like changing your spring stiffness just to adjust your high speed, flat out behavior: it has so many cascading effects that while it will have an impact on that area, by then the whole course of water may as well have been greatly altered.
Brake bias is huge here though. Even more so when David and the team get to work out the improvements they have in mind.
Engine braking acts solely on the driven axle, the rear axle. So you may be exhausting and saturating your rear tyres braking potential if you run with a too low brake bias and downshift aggressively. And that's at play all the time, straight line or trail braking.
So if you're breaking traction on the rear while braking, I'd offload the braking work by moving the BB forwards a click or by being gentler on the downshifting.
Sorry to butt in, but I took the time to look at the actual optimal shift points for the current gear ratios. These are somewhat naive calculations just looking at the power curve in isolation. I'm bad at my job, so the resolution is only down to 100 RPM +/- 25 revs worth of eyeballing it. I'm inputting values semi-manually so I'd have to calculate dozens of data points, and frankly, I don't want to.
First is the current gears, and then (approx.) Red Bull's real gears for fun.
Base is the RPM you're shifting TO, shift is the actual shifting point.
And then Red Bull if we put thier gears in the game.
1st gear look wrong, but it's actually because Red Bull (as far as I could tell, and I triple checked) are running a uniquely longer 1st gear than everyone else. They did the same thing last year, together with Mercedes.
That's the same story for 4th, Red Bull run the second longest gear, only behind Alpine who in general run very unique gear ratios.
...And 5th gear. Basically Red Bull run long gears.
The obvious standout is 8th, the in-game 8th is far and away the least accurate, being longer than even Alpine's 8th gear, which is already 20 kph's worth longer than the shortest 8th.
@DavidG53 already gave the explaination for why this is, the engine loses power too fast past the peak output, so 8th is extended to keep within the optimal range.
I do have to wonder, if that is the official explaination, I assume that has always been the reason, in which case I don't understand why it wasn't corrected about 5 years ago, but sass aside, I'm glad there's at least an explaination so I don't have to wonder about it anymore.
To wrap this up, no one wants to remember optimal shift points for each individual gear, so if we ignore 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, the average "optimal" shift point is 11900~. There you go.
I wrote "Sorry to butt in" about an hour and a half ago at this point, so let's end it there.
Hi @DavidG53, I posted it in other topic but couldn't remember which one and I'm not sure I correctly tagged you, sorry for double posting 😇
I noticed the max speed of the AI at the end of a straight is different after patch 1.06, I'm talking about GP mode. Is it due to presets and/or setup change? If I'm not wrong presets look the same... Or it's simply because of the 'well trained' AI?
Thank you 🙂
Nuv
EA Staff (Retired)@DavidG53 thank you, on the one hand it was 'comfortable' before but if it is useful for a better tuning of the AI, so be it!
I wonder if it is possible to share them publicly, at least the wings, it would be very useful for people fighting against AI like me to choose a setup as similar as possible to have comparable speed on the straight, track by track 🙂
@Nuvolarixi Second this
@DavidG53 Would the players default setup ever be changed in a patch? Every single team, no exceptions, ran their Monaco spec wing at Barcelona and Hungary. The same thing has historically been true for the Singapore GP, it has always been Monaco spec. This has been an issue in every game that I'm aware of, I don't really understand why they are put in a lower configuration, Monaco isn't that special.
@Meza994Well the point is, Monaco should not be separate from Barcelona, Hungary, Zandvoort, and Singapore. I kinda forgot how the unmodded top speed is, I've been playing with my corrected range.
Hey, I don't know if this has already been asked, but will the tire temperature a little bit be changed? Unfortunately, I noticed that despite a setup that was supposed to protect the tires, even the hard tires on the track in Jeddah rise to 102 degrees after a few laps and are therefore soon difficult to drive, but not impossible. This only happens when you switch to the medium which then begin to become slippery in the fast bends due to the high temperature
EA Staff (Retired)
@ActuallyImJulie wrote:
@DavidG53 Would the players default setup ever be changed in a patch? Every single team, no exceptions, ran their Monaco spec wing at Barcelona and Hungary. The same thing has historically been true for the Singapore GP, it has always been Monaco spec. This has been an issue in every game that I'm aware of, I don't really understand why they are put in a lower configuration, Monaco isn't that special.
I am quite sure you are wrong on this.
There is no way they use the same wing angle. Maybe spec, but the angle, the total downforce, is very different. Just because efficiency is not a problem in Monaco, 1 for the layout and 2 because is a very tight street circuit full of guardrails and walls.
You need max possible downforce you can make, nothing more nothing less.
A Monaco setup guaranteed will be way too slow for any other track (closest would be Hungary and Singapore).
I have got many things wrong, but not this. Also because I do have from previous years a ball-park real values from people that work very closely with F1 teams, so I know I am not wrong on this.
EA Staff (Retired)@DavidG53 I will admit, playing spot the wing angle on google images isn't my superpower, but here's a clip of Verstappen's acceleration from the Monaco tunnel, and the lap where his DRS happened to malfunction at Barcelona, meaning he was in Mode 1, but no DRS. I obviously can't know the exact deployment, but previous years exhaust mics suggest they are full deploy through the tunnel, and you can just barely tell from Mercedes' exhaust mic this year that they are full deploy from the start/finish line at Barcelona, so Red Bull is probably very similar. It's not exactly an unshakeable foundation I'm on here, but I just can't believe the gap seen in-game is representative.
Next a DRS comparison, although very limited.
And then in-game increased downforce (bottom) vs maximum (top).
Don't think there's much else I can say, it's obviously incredibly difficult to find like for like scenarios, but that's what I got.
@DavidG53 wrote:
@ix3paradise111Yes a little but not very much. Need to manage the tyres somehow, by driving smoother and sometimes slower = faster.
Slow is smooth…. Smooth is fast…. Always loved this quote and use it often
