David Greco's Handling, Driving and Setup Q&A (?)

@Mezab 

Porpoising. My point is, bring in the woes of bottoming out but leave the shaky camera out.

Why care about the visual bouncing? We're playing with a flat screen that occupy what, 60% of our field of view? Can you feel the loss of downforce in your body as drivers do? Can you feel the tyres rumbling through your backside as drivers do? Can you guesstimate how hard you can attack the following corner just by what your seat and your wheel feeds back to you?

My point is, drivers are reasonably equipped to deal with the distracting porpoising movement. We are not.

As I said, I absolutely want to tackle the challenge of the underflow choking up. I just don’t care for a tacked on visual shake of the camera, mate.

Tyre load sensitivity. Cornering force and grip multipliers are not the same. You want lower grip multipliers for lower loads or lower cornering performance at lower speed corners? Again, forest for the trees.

By the data it’s not that the grip will be the highest at 0 load. It’s that up to 4500 of vertical load, the cornering force will be Load*1.96. The cornering force is the result of a handful of factos, including the grip multiplier, but the latter is only part of the cornering performance though. 

Cornering force will still factor in the slip angle:

Again, random image from Google but you get the gist. David Greco stated already that the drop off after optimum slip angle will be harsher this time, no?

Carrying on, cornering force will factor grip multiplier, slip angle, and the tyre drag. Which Greco also said will be harsher in F1 22.

So coefficient of grip, slip angle, tyre drag aaaaand, the most improtant of all, the load transfer! This whole discussion is looking past the key aspect of cornering performance being the result of the lateral force produced by EACH wheel. And they will all be in different points of the grap!

Here, Mercedes will break it down for us (should be timestamped to 18:57):

@mariohomohPorpoising: I love the visual effect! I think if this one was an option while the bottoming out from the porpoising still happens it would be best. People who dont like the visual can turn it off and people who like it can keep it on, also for better indication when you are actually bottoming out on a straight except for comparing top speeds. A lot of casuals would otherwise not recognize that their setup might be very porpoisy. Besides its not as bad visually if you go for the right balance - a balance which is likely to be what it will be like in 2023, not much porpoising but just like RB for the most part, not super shaky but still somewhat. But i get what you mean and that you dont like it. I like it haha

Tyre load sensitiviy: If we had any more in the game to go on i could tell you more exactly what this "peak" value is but we dont so i cant haha its literally the only load related thing i can see as a modder and as it isnt titled properly we all just guess. As far as we are now, i dont want anything of that changed till we know what the next build of the game behaves like.

Aside of that, this makes totally sense for the lateral load. But does this cornering force, which you think is meant with "peak", also work the exact same way on the longitudinal loads e.g. for a race start? Which arent affected by any cornering forces to my knowledge.. And in the game its (almost) the exact same values for peak no matter if longitudinal or lateral load.

Yes DG said the drop off would be worse but the slip angle (drag and drop off) is another matter haha

And for all your real life comparisons: A lot of that is either (which i think) in the background physics, which are unaccessible for me just like the slip angle drag, or not in depth represented. Just like downforce was (almost) entirely Aero downforce pre 2021 so in terms of the physics they were far from the truth so i wouldnt think it impossible that its also the case for other parts. Real life knowledge is always interesting but it only gets you so far in sims and especially simcades.

It's not that I dislike the porpoising effect. I love camera shaking to some degree, always enable them on all games I play if they happen to be too toned down on default like they are in e.g. GT7.

But 😇 porpoising for an expectator with only sight to go by isn't the same as it is for a driver with use of all their senses and (b) just as a bunch of people found braking point or are betting F1 Life will be a waste of devs time, I feel the same about implementing porpoising and hooking it up with with whole progression system.

I guess we finally reached a common ground? Haha in the sense that all numbers% assessment are too crude yet and it's hard to play when so many cards are still in the deck?

For clarification, nope "peak" is NOT cornering force. Its most likely the coefficient of grip, a multiplier that, along with a handful of other factors, will give you your total cornering force at a given point in the lap.

That said yes you have a similar multiplier for longitudinal acceleration that will give you your total longitudinal force (acceleration) when you factor in all the applying factors, including vertical load.

Tyres have sensitivity to how much load sits on them. It may be different for longitudinal or latitudinal strips, but even if the coefficient of grip/friction (which is what we're talking about here) happens to be the same for both dimensions the final force will still be different as different factors apply. Load transfer is totally different in latitudinal vs longitudinal paths.

The workings of vehicle dynamics are all readily available online, including great material on Youtube. I can lost a few links if you're interested when I get back to my desktop.

Regarding your last paragraph, that's true but not useful or actionable as we do not know the depth of the simulation that Codies' code (pardon the pun) packs in.

What you talking about Willis