F1 2022 what did we learn/Handling VS Real Life (clips updated)

Someone needs to tell FOM to update their handling physics as they seemed to be running Codemasters build in FP today.

Meza, now we seemed to have found the root of the misunderstanding! You do not compound "grips" like that.

Also begs some clarification. We often talk about mechanical grip and aerodynamic grip and tyre grip but that's improper. 

All that grip really means is the bonding interface between the car and the road that enables you to put power down. What makes that bonding stronger/limit higher:

- tyre compound

- track surface

- "mechanical grip"

- "aerodynamic grip"

What mechanical and aerodynamic grips really stand for are the total load the tyres are bearing - the weight of the car plus the downforce. By the way, when we talk about mechanical grip and suspension elements we're talking about maximizing your grip potential by making the car not lose contact with the road - you cannot "add" mechanical grip, only minimize its losses.

The ONLY component making this interface between the car and the road are the tyres. That's why when we talk about coefficient of grip were bundling the tyre compound and the track surface together. So a slick soft Pirelli tyre when in contact with good race tarmac will have a coefficient of around 1.4. This is quite accurate for GT3 cars as we know from ACC and I don't have F1 tyres values from the top of my head, but they're NOT going to be that much different. And when you take the same tyre and put it over wet tarmac, now it drops to 0.2 or something like that.

So the WHOLE FORMULA for the total amount of grip you have available goes something like Coefficient of Grip * (car weight + downforce).

And that's why it does not matter how much downforce you've got. If the road is wet, it's being multiplied by 0.2. Any number multiplied by 0.2 equals 20% of its original value, and if your grip level suddenly drops by that magnitude you're in for a hard time

It doesn't matter how much downforce evolved. It's a different factor altogether. Pirelli tyres are presumably better than Michelin's, but we're still talking about 1-1.5 coefficients and they still drop abysmally when you go over a bad surface.

So when it's all shiny and dandy and you're going really fast, generating lots of downforce and thus increasing the total load, yeah you'll feel like the car is on rails because the grip available to you is immense. But then you hit a puddle or go over a painted strip or whatever, your engine will be outputting the same power but your total grip is halved or something - ballet time!

Hopefully we're on the same page now! 

@mariohomohFirst, nah just no mate, Miami was extremely hot and everybody was surprised by the lack of grip, especially once you get an inch off the line. Saying this is 100% like in the game when the game runs 33° (22° less than in FP1 and thats a huge difference for a track) and every driver complains about how much grip they are missing isnt really telling a lot.. Also they are using higher downforce in the game than IRL which can be seen on the top speeds.. It is however possible that Codemasters went with the absolute worst tarmac simulation they have for Miami and therefore coming close to the green tarmac they got yesterday - remember turkey 2020 when it got resurfaced and a tiny bit of water caused a grip loss worth a couple seconds with the grippiest cars in history. Fresh tarmac can be bad and if the cars ingame feel quite a bit more grippy on the other tracks (we havent seen yet) than kudos to Codemasters for predicting the worst dry tarmac in years haha in that case i take it all back haha Also i had another thought after comparing the speeds of especially the low speeds of FP2 and the game and it might also be just too much front tyre grip at minimum loads.. simply too oversteery at those loads which also allows for higher speeds in that tight chicane.

No we are not really on the same page because when you say it doesnt matter what you take time 0.2 you are denying physics in its entirety.. if you take 100 X 0.2 you get 20, if you take 1m X 0.2 you still got 200k.. its a massive difference.

Besides that how wet is wet?.. Full wets? Malaysian storm? Inters? A few drops?

Next thing is that to me it seems you think the drivers are always going full throttle as soon as it is possible with the grip which i doubt, because when you go full throttle you have more understeer. Which for example in turn 13 in Bahrain would cause them to go off track and receive penaltys. If they would lose so much grip that they couldnt get the power down we wouldnt have had the track limit discussion as 15% of the grip kerbs compared to real track would cause them to be unable to do anything.. You should try giving modding a chance haha reduce the tyre grip of a tyre by 80% and you cant get the power down in any reasonable manner even on the good surface..

I am always talking about kerbs, not the grass patches (way too grippy in the game) or the painted stuff and by far not wet.. just simply the kerbs and im taking most corners in F1 as front limited to stay on the track. Comparing the loads at work the rear is much more loaded and more mechanical grip than the front.. Needed for over 1000bhp but thats exactly why it makes less difference with kerbs

Let me explain this a bit more because i think we are completely talking past each other haha

Line A) requires a grip level of 1000 to go full throttle at 140 kph, you got 3000 grip though so you can make that line but because your front cant do more you are limited to this line.

When Line A) would cross a kerb though your grip gets reduced, say to 20% then we have 600 left. which would cause the driver to go full throttle a bit later because he only got 60% of the required grip.. But thats still way more than the 20% you are talking about.

I think that is the entire problem between us both. Im mostly talking about the front limited corners in which they cant put the power down in order to stay on track (like COTA) where they take in almost every traction zone the kerbs. If they would lose 80% grip that would make their laptimes way slower than braking a bit earlier. However on corners in which you are rear limited or more on the edge like Pouhon, when you start to even touch the kerb with the right rear on the outside it can send you into a spin very easily.

Also something worth thinking about is how it actually affects the total grip of the car with only one side of the car on a worse surface. So right side on kerb. That wont reduce the total grip by 80% because one half still has full grip but the balance difference is a bigger problem.. Anyway i think i made it clear that its not just that simple to say that once they are on the kerb they automatically lose 80% grip..