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Freakstyle's avatar
Freakstyle
New Scout
4 years ago
Solved

F1 2022 what did we learn/Handling VS Real Life (clips updated)

I know it is still a work in progress, but what can we take from the gameplay we have seen? Well, From what i have seen so far from the invited content creator's the game looks amazing in the wet, probably the best yet. The other features regarding the immersion of manual ish pitstops is cool and so is the same feature regarding manual grid spot alignment and broadcasted formation laps. The tweak to the aero on setups is also very interesting with it now being 0-50 instead of 1-11 like we have been used to. However the bit that worries me the most is the overall rear end grip (traction) in the dry, the cars look very snappy and thus it seems managing the throttle is key, which is good and and bad for seperate reasons. The good side is it will or should encourage people to be smoother on their throttle application. The big downside i see to this though is that it does welcome the f1 games annoying nemesis of spammed short shifts to gain chunks of time like they have tried to eliminate from happening since 2019 with less than success. I personally hope the game isn't another short shift from 1st to 3rd or 4th game to gain huge chunks of time.... People who have smooth throttle application should be rewarded not hampered by stampy/over eager people who need to spam short shifts all the time due to not being smooth on their throttle input or rushing said input. In my opinion it'd be wrong to allow spammed short shifts in this upcoming title, especially when compared to real life where they rarely short shift even in this new era with the 18 inch tyres, for proof of this please click on/see the clips below. 
 
If you will please take a look at the clip/clips below for proof of slow corner throttle application. In Melbourne towards the last 4 corners of the lap, you'll see that even though the tyres have taken a beating throughout a lap, rear grip is looking much higher than shown in the current state of play in the game. Hopefully this helps move the title in a more accurate direction thank you. 
 
 
You'll also see from the comparison below that in jeddahs slower corners there is no need to short shift
 
 
 
Probably the best examples of real life miami in turn one and the super slow section shown in 2nd gear in sector 2/3 without short shifts 🙂
 
 
 
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  • Meza994's avatar
    Meza994
    4 years ago
    @Freakstyle Yeah i have to agree on the lose rear end.. Its just a development Codemasters started last year, making it a bigger challenge or possibly their only solution to not ride every kerb..

    Anyway the rear downforce/grip is too a bit too low, likely not way too low but still its unrealisticly low.. Possibly it will be changed though as its often said not to be final performances..

    I just hope Codemasters has some sort of striving to be realistic and less just to please the people that are shouting now "i like how it is, dont change it" even though it could be nothing like reality..

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  • Nellix82's avatar
    Nellix82
    Rising Ace
    4 years ago
    @Meza994 If you can't take an example of the Esports them from PC have a game that's not f1. they seem to have the tracks make all the tracks with high gears. Not to mention in the charging phase they have the ers always full while using it. That's why I keep closing differentiated rankings. but cm doesn't want who knows.
  • mariohomoh's avatar
    mariohomoh
    Hero (Retired)
    4 years ago
    @Meza994 Meza, who said it's 100% like in the game?

    And what players complained about the lack of grip? For real. Yes, people pointed out that it's easier to lose the rear, but it was quite the contrary from what I remember from Opmeer, Kiefer and iContrast videos - they all thought the handling was more realistic.

    Sorry to lump iContrast with the others, it's just that he's been lowkey solid way before screamtubers exploded in the scene. If you ever dig up his old videos about racing concepts you'll notice he actually knows a thing or two about vroom vrooming.

    I don't get where you took lap temps from and why you're assuming a hot track surface would conduce to less grip. Anyway, the track being the slip festival it was on the 3 free practices is in part a consequence of it being new and green (other categories and feed series were scheduled to run only after FP2, some having run today before quali and I think there's still a Porsche cup to debut there before the race) and in part for the surface characteristics of the track.

    It is bumpy and coarse. The resurfacing activity also put a patina of dirt on top of it all, but being bumpy and coarse are decisive factors for varying grip levels all around the lap.

    Tarmac conditions aren't exactly a guessing game. Pirelli for instance released their analysis of the track in advance - which always covers surface abrasion and other characteristics, even suggesting camber settings and fixing minimum tyre pressures. Anyway, this is deep speculation territory so I'd rather move on.

    Back to the Michelin debacle, c'mon Meza. 100*0.2 equals 20 and 1m*0.2 equals 200k, but both 20 and 200k are exactly 20% of their original values! If you have a highly performant machine with enough power to easily exceed their grip limit and you SUDDENLY make it work at 100% power with only 20% of the previous threshold for power, you're risking breaking traction if you do not act upon that deficit!

    How in heck does it matter how much downforce you generate when you're having or quartering or whatever the capacity for laying down power? You CANNOT bypass the tyres' limit.

    Moving on, this whole debate is aimed at players playing with pads or cheap wheels fuming at how they cannot go full beans with extreme setups like they (think they) see on TV.

    Patches of grass, painted lines, damp tarmac, gravel, whatever. It really doesn't matter, I was just trying to make the physics approachable as you seemed keen on pressing that these cars must had surely grown out of the tyre limits of the Michelin era with how much downforce they generate - almost as if that downforce had any way to act upon the world and translate to performance other then through the tyres. If we're finally on the same page here, then it's all good.

    Same goes for the dumbed down examples of a single state for the whole grip level. Your total grip is the sum of how much grip each of the four corners of the car is producing, so you basically run that operation 4x accounting for the coefficient of grip for each tyre and the corresponding load sitting atop of it.

    Have you ever visited F1 Technical? The forums, not the subreddit. I'm sure you'll love it! Also please look further into this coefficient of grip/friction and how tyres generate grip longitudinally and laterally. It's your kind of jam.

    By the way, couldn't do any better than a quick search on mobile, but the best number I found for said coefficient regarding modern Pirelli tyres was 1.5 for slicks. Racing tyres have come a long way this past decades, but mostly on durability and flexibility - working range, heat cycles etc. We didn't have a earth shattering physics shattering revolution regarding the adhesion between rubber and tarmac as that is the result of those materials' characteristics.

    Rubber is rubber. Downforce has nothing to do with it. Unless you mean lift and airplanes haha
  • Meza994's avatar
    Meza994
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago

    @mariohomohYeah sorry but none of them know what the current F1 cars do feel like or should feel like. In that regard i have to agree with the one "criticizing" me the whole time because only the drivers actually know how it should feel. Dont wanna discuss about this anyway as Miami is not a good comparison with its tarmac breaking apart..

    You mistake what im discussing about in this threat but i dont bother with going into details here.

    The track temps are from the actual broadcast - FP1 ~52° just at the start. That this reduces grip i take from ex driver commentator. Besides even Crofty and Brundle always say in Bahrain that the track gets faster when night comes because its colder. The Miami track is also build off of material (local) which isnt suited for that heat which is why it breaks apart and drivers can see a lot of stones in the pitlane which broke out of the tarmac. But of course its also green in general. But i think this isnt something we disagree on hahaha

    Pirelli often makes mistakes too haha but yeah lets not discuss on that one.

    Okay i think we are running in circles for a while and we need to cut it short.. First of, stop it with the grass, wet patches, gravel etc. im never talking about those, i always agreed that these are horrible grip and need great caution. All im talking about is kerbs and how the driver has EXCESSIVE traction on tarmac (for the taken line) and therefore not as much less traction on a normal kerb. We DONT disagree on all the other surfaces being really bad haha

    Next i think you are really mistaken in thinking that downforce (which is caused by aerodynamic grip) has nothing to do with the tyre rubbing on the surface. Without any downforce (the weight of the car) there wouldnt be any grip. Mechanical grip and aerodynamic grip work in unison, not solo. Its all the same because aerodynamic grip only appears above ~50 kph and then all it does is increase the mechanical grip. The mechanical grip is the friction between tyre and surface and in no world can downforce work different than increase that very friction by adding weight to the car. Even at ~80kph taking away all downforce would cause a loss of 10% cornering speed because the tyre has less friction and therefore grip. The tires limit is NOT reached simply through the suspension and base car weight, at least at speeds at which aerodynamic starts working..

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