Interesting video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwhThyQ6V8

@Meza994 Indeed the traction is a sum of many little problems, that put together, rewards higher gears for traction.Is not just one thing and not so easy to get right.The ers is another story, to do it right is a lot of data, gps based. So is a little simplified now, but it does mess with the traction.Gps based they put full power when they are sure they have the grip to cope with that, we don't have that and contributes to slightly worse traction.

@Wollcott did you get to drive a sim in a factory or in the team's entourage? This is off topic, but if that's the case I'd love to hear more about it and I'm most definitely not alone in that! Though there are a bunch of users who casually play the game, there's a good number of legit petrol heads here that will always perk their ears up to hear such stories 👌However if you got into a sim in an exhibition, museum or the sort, please bear in mind that those sims are tuned for the general public. I'm referring to sims like those in the Ferrari museums or in the various exhibitions the teams promote around the world.It is still a great experience, but the sims are tuned down with TC, lower FFB strength etc.Regarding going flat on 2nd gear, I'll properly attach a telemetry screenshot when I get back to my desktop but you'll notice how their throttle application is not so binary. And race start incidents are there to demonstrate that it is not as simple as go full throttle from 2nd onwards. Healthy dose of upshifting or throttle modulation.To those not entirely sure what this is about, think of the engine speed (RPM) as the source of power of the car, not the throttle. The throttle is a valve that allows you to increase or decrease the engine speed at different rates - so 50% throttle will increase engine RPM at a certain rate from idle to 12.000 or whatever, while going full throttle will do so much faster. It is not instantaneous though. You can be at full throttle in lower gears no problem, as long as you upshift earlier (shortshifting) when the wheels get close to breaking traction as the power increases as a result of higher engine speeds.That said, the game has a lot to improve to get to a more realistic state. David Greco himself has mentioned many aspects he wasn't content about in F1 22 and even shared a long list of handling features and updates he'd like to work on, so that (not being in a good state) is not a secret.Same goes for the FFB.Comparing it to iRacing as a game "released In 2008" is misleading too. iRacing gets huge updates from time to time and the last one was pushed just a few months ago. Literally everything from AI to crash models to FFB gets reworked in these big updates. If you were to play the game in an earlier state it would not feel the same.And I imagine you know this already, but for those reading iRacing's W13 was not designed and programmed by Mercedes. They did a great collab, with constant feedback from the team and even a Discord server just for Mercedes engineers and iRacing devs to hang out and discuss progress with the car. It was still made by the iRacing guys over data provided by Mercedes. You can take a peek at how it happened on the iRacing Downshift podcast with James Vowles, episode 40. Yes, that Vowles that has just jumped ships and is now the boss at Williams haha! In the show he speaks at length on how the car was developed, what sort of data they disclosed for the iRacing team, what the iRacing devs got right and what they got wrong. Keyword here being "they", as in iRacing devs - Mercedes didn't code or program anything, just gave feedback on how it was shaping up and tested it in a simracing rig with Anthony Davidson and Mercedes eSports drivers Jarno and I think Moreno.

@BadMayh3m Gear ratios are fixed for the season. The teams send them at the start of the race calendar and that's it, there's no tweaking on a track by track basis.But yeah, different cars have different ratios. Plus there are the torque curves of each engine.At the end of the day, I guess it mostly comes down to the tyre model. How much grip each axle has under different loads. F1 22 broke new grand in the franchise as it significantly increased the number of data points in the load sensitivity of the tyres, and Greco is a dedicated workhorse. The next iterations have a good shot at being more realistic now that the underlying systems were updated like this.

After driving F1 cars in actual simulators I can say the F1 cars int he game, (especially wheel support) are horrible in the feeling and feedback. F1 2020 is closer to real life 2022 cars than F1 22. I know people might use medium traction but imo those guys cannot take part in this discussion as real life has no TC as well. the traction is completely different and you can feel this straight away as in an F1 car you could go flat in 2nd gear while ingame here its not possible. Also higher gears the traction of an F1 car is one of the easiest in any race car out there. Why they decided to make it so unrealistic, i dunno. (again, 2020 had fairly realistic handling) Same with the reaction of the car. Yes, this generation produces understeer but the amount of understeer IRL is significantly less. the car still turns in straight away unlike F1 22. Also the gear sync is completely wrong in F1 22. But the biggest difference compared to an Arcade or simcade game and an actual sim is the feedback. Yes, its no secret that wheels in F1 games havent been supported well at all for pretty much ever and the game is made for a controller (yes, 22 being first game where controller isnt the better device, and pretty much equal to wheel)Still, the support for a wheel should be MUCH MUCH better in this game as practially you get zero indication what the car is doing in the device via FFB.

@Blackbird90Yea and after watdching the video i think theres one massive flaw in their comparison. And that is the traction part.The outcome is somewhat very misleading and they compared wrong things to each other.Alex lap was done under normal F1 22 shifting (perhaps slightly lower than you would go) but still higher than IRL and Russells lap. So essentially they are comparing Alex in third gear on the apex and throttle out of the corner to Russell whos in 2nd gear at that time and does no shortshifting, while Alex is arleady in fourth when Russell just upshifts to third.That makes a comparison impossible as traction is obviously different in every gear. Alex should instead have done his lap in the same gears (or as close as possible) as Russell. Because then the outcome would have been completely different as George is flat in 2nd gear and Alex wouldve had to be much more cautious while putting power down.I also asked 2 other experienced Sim pros about this and they say the same thing. Alex and the other guy probably forgot that dimension when making this video so i dont want to blame them but definitely that comparison does not give true results.

How Realistic is F122? (According to an F1 Engineer)

48 Replies

BadMayh3m
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Ultrasonic_77 Just saw this and was quite surprised myself.
ScarDuck14
Legend
3 years ago
Watched videos by both Alex and the other guy. I wasn’t surprised as I’ve said I never had issue with the handling. My issue has always been: and I’ve raised it in @DavidG53 Q&AWhat I believed to be the problem for me was controller is not properly optimised for the game. Which I think this videos reinforces that.
Blackbird90
3 years ago
@Ultrasonic_77 How can engineers not get brake pressure data? I'd never believe it's unavailable. Surely is not like the holy grail or something.
Ultrasonic_77
Hero
3 years ago
@Blackbird90 wrote:
@Ultrasonic_77How can engineers not get brake pressure data? I'd never believe it's unavailable. Surely is not like the holy grail or something.
Not sure but it does fit with what we get to see on the TV feed.
Blackbird90
3 years ago
@Ultrasonic_77 Yeah, but we see what they allow us to see, like the engineers providing those telemetry data sheets to the drivers and all they see is on/off brakes. Can't be.
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@ScarDuck14 Well its a very interesting video but the test is not very good.. No tyre overheating or tyre wear and even if we assume that the track grip is about right ingame compared to real life then the traction is still worse ingame than in real life because IRL they deploy much more of the ERS at lower gears than we do ingame..
Ingame its 60% of maximum ERS for all gears until like 300 kph or so which isnt the fastest, instead it would be more like 100% deployment at 2nd-4th or even 5th gear and the decrease much more, also depending on how long the straights are to not waste any power.. What im trying to say is that in those low gears the traction must withstand 64bhp more than ingame yet it seems like (at least till tyre temps hit) ingame is the same traction as IRL which would mean IRL has more traction..
BadMayh3m
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@Meza994 Is this why higher gears are better in game then....different gear ratios?
Comparing gears used between the two might be helpful?
Just curious🤔
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@BadMayh3m No thats a different story entirely, thats to do with torque IMO which gets ever lower the higher the gear at quite considerable rates. Different gear ratios are a thing though as proven in the video and fairly obvious as well especially 8th gear which is set too low ingame but thats not a game changer but we need to wait what expects us in the next game, maybe it will be spot on :D
Ultrasonic_77
Hero
3 years ago
@Blackbird90 wrote:
@Ultrasonic_77Yeah, but we see what they allow us to see, like the engineers providing those telemetry data sheets to the drivers and all they see is on/off brakes. Can't be.
Not sure if you're being literal with you're 'can't be'? I personally have no reason to doubt the accuracy of what Blake said in the video.
DavidG53
EA Staff (Retired)
3 years ago
@Meza994 Indeed the traction is a sum of many little problems, that put together, rewards higher gears for traction.

Is not just one thing and not so easy to get right.

The ers is another story, to do it right is a lot of data, gps based. So is a little simplified now, but it does mess with the traction.

Gps based they put full power when they are sure they have the grip to cope with that, we don't have that and contributes to slightly worse traction.