Product: F1 22
Platform:PC
Summarize your bug The game works differently over the kerbs on lower framerate, giving people running capped frames an advantage
What is your 16 digit Report Code? PAMH-CRJX-PVBS-DEEE
Which area is the bug/glitch in? TT
How often does the bug occur? Every time (100%)
Did you have cross-play enabled? No
Steps: How can we find the bug ourselves? Try to take the corner over the kerb on 60 fps, then try on 144+ more
What happens when the bug occurs? The car is driving differently, giving actual competitive advantage
What do you expect to see? The car should react just as same

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Hi all,

I think we found an insanely huge bug. I was racing my friend with a relatively similar pace, on an equal setup and he was way quicker in the corners. Now, I am a competitive driver and I hate losing, so we started to analyse what do we do differently. 

At some point he tried to guide me through a lap and told me to cut the apex as much as I can, which for me seemed impossible. We both got confused and started seeking for anything.

Then we realized, the only difference between our setups, as we race on the identical steering wheels, are our PCs. While my PC is quite powerful and runs the game easily at 150+ fps, his PC is kind of a mid ranger and he runs the game at capped 60fps.

Now... you probably know where this is going :D Turns out, while running the game in lower framerate, the kerbs are not throwing you in the air. 

Try this for yourself, this is insane, you can actually gain a true, competitive advantage with lower framerate. This isn't some cosmetics or delusion of a mad driver, it actually does work like that.

I have attached a comparison video, check it out, try to replicate it, it's almost like you're playing a different game. In case the attachment does not show, here it is: https://streamable.com/w81eo7#


CODEMASTERS/EA, THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. YOU'VE GOT F1 ESPORTS STARTING SOON, IMAGINE WHAT THIS WILL DO TO THE SCENE!!!!

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@CgSquall wrote:
@taattorYou're mixing up your things a bit. If they're on 60 FPS - yes - if they're just on a 60 hz monitor/TV - no. Difference being the system / game is producing more frames (and thus the physics interactions) than your screen can actually display, but the \"stuff\" will still happen on those frames since it's being produced and you'll see the effect.

It's like how the ideal way to play a shooter is at 288 FPS (minimum) on a 144 hz monitor (this is an example, there are higher refresh rate monitors and all now, so this has gone up) so there's zero possibility you'd ever miss anything, as the two may not line up exactly.

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Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the \"benefits\" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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@CgSquall wrote:
@taattorYou're mixing up your things a bit. If they're on 60 FPS - yes - if they're just on a 60 hz monitor/TV - no. Difference being the system / game is producing more frames (and thus the physics interactions) than your screen can actually display, but the \"stuff\" will still happen on those frames since it's being produced and you'll see the effect.

It's like how the ideal way to play a shooter is at 288 FPS (minimum) on a 144 hz monitor (this is an example, there are higher refresh rate monitors and all now, so this has gone up) so there's zero possibility you'd ever miss anything, as the two may not line up exactly.

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Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the \"benefits\" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

@IleleeeHere's a better demonstration of what @pet05ppl0uyv was showing in his video.

I set up the flashback so I had almost no input and hit the kerb in the same way every time, all I do is steer full left on controller.

Multiple flashbacks with unlocked and locked FPS to show consistency.

FPS is shown in the top left corner.

https://streamable.com/o6sy3c

It's not rng. Physics are tied to FPS and it affects kerbs.

@IleleeeHere's a better demonstration of what @pet05ppl0uyv was showing in his video.

I set up the flashback so I had almost no input and hit the kerb in the same way every time, all I do is steer full left on controller.

Multiple flashbacks with unlocked and locked FPS to show consistency.

FPS is shown in the top left corner.

https://streamable.com/o6sy3c

It's not rng. Physics are tied to FPS and it affects kerbs.

I couldn't get this to reproduce in Career or Grand Prix mode, but got it to reproduce in time trial.

My guess is that the lower FPS means your game and the server are communicating slightly less frequently, so that you're \"skipping\" the frame / communication where the floor of the car hits the kerb.

Might have been my error in trying to reproduce, but I think it would make sense that the \"online\" versions would trigger slightly differently based on communications with the server.

This is the same reason / thinking that in shooters you want to play on a server with the highest tick rate possible, same with racing games, on lower FPS / tick rate servers (my assumption is that F1's servers are 64 tick rate at most) things can often feel \"random\", but in actuality can be reproduced reliably if something happens \"between\" frames or ticks of the server. Changing the FPS of the game itself on the client side effectively just doubles how wide the gap is that the thing can occur between.

Could anyone else test in GP or Career mode who has higher FPS (mine maxes at 100 or so) to see if it's occurring offline as well, or just online?

I couldn't get this to reproduce in Career or Grand Prix mode, but got it to reproduce in time trial.

My guess is that the lower FPS means your game and the server are communicating slightly less frequently, so that you're \"skipping\" the frame / communication where the floor of the car hits the kerb.

Might have been my error in trying to reproduce, but I think it would make sense that the \"online\" versions would trigger slightly differently based on communications with the server.

This is the same reason / thinking that in shooters you want to play on a server with the highest tick rate possible, same with racing games, on lower FPS / tick rate servers (my assumption is that F1's servers are 64 tick rate at most) things can often feel \"random\", but in actuality can be reproduced reliably if something happens \"between\" frames or ticks of the server. Changing the FPS of the game itself on the client side effectively just doubles how wide the gap is that the thing can occur between.

Could anyone else test in GP or Career mode who has higher FPS (mine maxes at 100 or so) to see if it's occurring offline as well, or just online?

So do you think PS4/5 players with 60hz has an advantage over PS5 players with 120hz as well? 🤔

So do you think PS4/5 players with 60hz has an advantage over PS5 players with 120hz as well? 🤔

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the \"benefits\" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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Do you have a 120 Hz display? If not then there is no point using anything other than Quality mode (what I believe you're referring to as 'Standard'). If you do have a 120 Hz display then you have the option of using Performance mode at 120 Hz (assuming you're playing on PS5), which is what I use. 

On PC it has been demonstrated that there can be a couple of disadvantages of higher vs lower frame rates, but generally comparing 60 fps with 180+ fps. Codemasters have previously said that the fundamental game physics are the same across all platforms so my best guess is that the there also a difference between 60 and 120 fps on PS5 but that it is less significant as the difference in frame rate is smaller. You can try to test for yourself but when I had a quick look last night I realised it's harder to do this than PC as we have to go back to the main menu to changes the graphics mode. The downside of this is that it prevents us using flashbacks for consistency. If you do have the time and inclination to try to test this I'll be interested in what you find, but trying to be as repeatable as possible will be important.

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@Ultrasonic_77 wrote:

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the \"benefits\" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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Do you have a 120 Hz display? If not then there is no point using anything other than Quality mode (what I believe you're referring to as 'Standard'). If you do have a 120 Hz display then you have the option of using Performance mode at 120 Hz (assuming you're playing on PS5), which is what I use. 

On PC it has been demonstrated that there can be a couple of disadvantages of higher vs lower frame rates, but generally comparing 60 fps with 180+ fps. Codemasters have previously said that the fundamental game physics are the same across all platforms so my best guess is that the there also a difference between 60 and 120 fps on PS5 but that it is less significant as the difference in frame rate is smaller. You can try to test for yourself but when I had a quick look last night I realised it's harder to do this than PC as we have to go back to the main menu to changes the graphics mode. The downside of this is that it prevents us using flashbacks for consistency. If you do have the time and inclination to try to test this I'll be interested in what you find, but trying to be as repeatable as possible will be important.

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Yes sorry didn’t remember the correct label, Standard = Quality. And yes I’m currently with a 120+ hz monitor running Performance Mode on PS5.

True also with PS you cannot switch between Quality and Performance if not returning to the Main Menu. Once well trained my pace should be consistent enough to test it the same, but my eyes have begun to “suffer” the lower refresh rate, at least in my quick attempt I was struggling 😕

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

...but my eyes have begun to “suffer” the lower refresh rate, at least in my quick attempt I was struggling 😕

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For me that's reason enough to just stick with 120 Hz and not worry about any possible other small differences between modes.

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@Ultrasonic_77 wrote:

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

...but my eyes have begun to “suffer” the lower refresh rate, at least in my quick attempt I was struggling 😕

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For me that's reason enough to just stick with 120 Hz and not worry about any possible other small differences between modes.

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Sure, even if a self-respecting driver for half a tenth would even cut a finger! 🥳

Did this affect consoles as well? Was it properly fixed? From some random comments from forums and vague tweets from esports players, it seems that the fix made only for the PC version didn't actually solve the issue and another proper fix was made for the esports build, but not the public build.

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@REDRA-11 wrote:

Did this affect consoles as well? Was it properly fixed? From some random comments from forums and vague tweets from esports players, it seems that the fix made only for the PC version didn't actually solve the issue and another proper fix was made for the esports build, but not the public build.

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I've never personally seen anything convincing to prove that consoles were affected. It's harder to test on PlayStation due to having to go back to the main menu to change modes, so flashbacks can't be used. This lead to me personally give up trying to test this, but better/more consistent drivers would have had a better chance of doing so.

Even on the eSports build there was confusion over whether the issue was fixed or not. There was a change made to the public build claiming to address this issue (on PC) which I think at least helped but I've not gone digging for tests of how successful it was.

I'm pretty confident it's as 'fixed' as it's going to be for the current game though.