Forum Discussion
59 Replies
DavidG53EA Staff (Retired)
@Mikulitsi yes but negligible, sadly.- @DavidG53 I understand you said it's negligible but I'd love to know more about it because for some reason these little details interest me haha. Like how small of change is it in terms of grip and which time of day/track temp gives the best grip etc.
Also idk if this 2nd question is in your area of expertise but talking about different time of day settings, do you know how many minutes it takes in game to go from a certain time of day setting to a different one (like from sunset to dusk or from midnight to dawn etc.)? - @Mikulitsi I didnt do much testing on the tyre temps changing with track temperature but from what i saw its within 2-3° celsius.. Not too much currently but if the actual track temperature range would be 10°-60° instead of ~22°-38° these differences could be fairly realistic, highest to lowest would make a considerable difference on tracks which are already a overheating problem at low temps but with 55° track you would have to drive very careful... But then again the AI would be required to react to track temps etc...
<Chassis>
<Mass value="798" />
<MOIX value="877" />
<MOIY value="2042" />
<MOIZ value="126" />
<COMY value="0.21" />
<COMZ value="0.108" /
Looking at these rows from the game files and based on the earlier replies here, I guess COM means "Center of Mass". However does anyone have any idea what MOI could mean?@DavidG53, I was told to look up your YT tips&tricks clip about wing setup, by @ScarDuck14 . It is interesting that "5 up, 5 down" would make such a difference (not always for me as I am not as consistent as you are shown in clip 😉 )
So if this little tweak makes the difference, why it isn't used in pre-defined setups? 😉
I also noticed that AI cars always use one of pre-defined setups, usually the one suggested to gamers in FP1. And it seems - based on UDP telemetry - all of them use the same.
Is that intentional, to put AI little bit on a back foot and give us gamers a chance to beat them? 😉
- DavidG53@P4st3l1ak Ai actually use different setup. I don't believe udp shows it correctly. Mainly wing and ride height difference, that's all.
Why it isn't used in pre-defined setups? Because players at lower level must be able to drive the car as well. Internally we found that a lot more people would just spin and not complete a single race if we went for faster setups.
@DavidG53 wrote:
@P4st3l1akAi actually use different setup. I don't believe udp shows it correctly. Mainly wing and ride height difference, that's all.Interesting 😉 Would it be possible to see their setup in UDP telemetry? 😉
I'd be quite interested to see custom setups in AI car setups as I assume AI drivers are designed to have different preferences.
@DavidG53 wrote:
Why it isn't used in pre-defined setups? Because players at lower level must be able to drive the car as well. Internally we found that a lot more people would just spin and not complete a single race if we went for faster setups.OK, understood, so you prefer stability of car to speed and then leave it to gamers to find their own limits 😉 Thank you the explanation.
- @P4st3l1ak sure listen to sir Greco dudes explanation over mine 🙄😜which I think was the same
@ScarDuck14 wrote:
@P4st3l1aksure listen to sir Greco dudes explanation over mine 🙄😜which I think was the samePlease, I didn't mean any insult to your knowledge. If I made such thing, it was unintentional and please accept my sincere apology.
I reached out to Sir David because topic says it's his Q&A. And because he can see behind the scene and can share details we may only guess 😉
- @P4st3l1ak Dude I’m joking. Greco dude is sim racing god and god off Codemasters handling physics. I’d prefer to ask his opinion than take my own word for it even if I knew I was right..
- @DavidG53 Was just in controller and FFB settings. And was playing around with throttle and brake linearity. When I used the test buttons setting with linearity set at 0 and 100. Which is actually irrelevant for the point I’m going to raise: Also just as control I also had adaptive triggers off and maximum: When very very gently pressing down on the triggers. When I got to 100% on the button meter. I stopped pressing. On both brake and throttle triggers on my pad. Still had another 30ish% off travel left. I know it’s not your department. But pad users could really use that extra 30% off travel. That was using the newer updated Dual sense. So Also tested original launch dual sense pad and it has less but still around 20%.
@P4st3l1ak wrote:Interesting 😉 Would it be possible to see their setup in UDP telemetry? 😉I'd be quite interested to see custom setups in AI car setups as I assume AI drivers are designed to have different preferences.
+1, maybe we could ask here: https://answers.ea.com/t5/General-Discussion/F1-22-UDP-Specification/td-p/11551274
- @ScarDuck14 Good catch. Was testing my Dualsense yesterday as well. My steering was broken (full left was changing from 83 to 100 rapidly). But the deadzone on the controller for the triggers is huge. Also way different to last year.
The last 20% on the triggers is actually really important for resolution for the throttle and brake. 0-80 trigger equals 0-100 throttle/brake which means there are points which in between those points which can not be registered accurately and that means the trigger can feel like an on and off switch. This is especially important for trailbraking and braking in general. Getting 100% pressure but not physically knowing when the end point of braking/trigger can lead to a guessing game every time you enter a heavy breaking zone. Or alternatively if you press to end the stop, you spend a few milliseconds more on the brake and trailbraking is impacted.
On my dual sense I had to modify the brake trigger to have a physical stop when the brake indicator hit 100% and trailbraking improved. That 20% deadzone at the end of travel is not necessary. A simple end point calibration in the menu would really helpful.
- @TotosHeadphones I’m fine with brakes and for years pulsebraked in games. It’s learned behaviour now so only really trail brake when corners have late apex. Was better last year cause the adaptive triggers worked better.
But as I use auto gears. Perfect throttle control is needed and I need it. Being able to use That 20-30% off extra travel would help no end - @Nuvolarix good idea, I'll bring it up there
@DRudd13Why would you think so? The goal of the test is to calibrate the game difficulty to the closest performance reference you can have: an AI driver running in equal machinery.
Even if their setups are slightly different than yours, 1. setups are about handling first and foremost, hardly messing up with car potential performance, and 2. your teammate keeps on being the closest performance reference you can get.
I'd wager the tip to use a default setup was just sort of a foolproof mechanism. Making sure the player is not running a very punitive, hard-to-drive setup unsuitable for their skill level.
Even after you have your own custom setups for each and every track, running a quali session against your AI teammate would still be the recommended difficulty calibration routine 👌In previous years you'd be running the same set-up as well as having the same machinery.
But this year you could match your teammates times in qualifying, but your tyre's might go off 3 laps earlier. So you'll not be getting as accurate AI level as you would previously.
Not knowing your teammate's set-up for this sort of setting isn't helpful. And I'm sure you could get that information from the team.It's a bit like the tyre pressures, they open the game up, which I'm all for. But keep the players options very limited. As @mezza has said previously, we need the chance to set them for every compound that could be used in the race. As they really do make a huge difference.
Edit*
It would be good to know
1 Why they don't use the default set-ups
2 What do they gain with the set=up they decide to use
3 does their skill rating affect the changes they make to the car
4 the decisions they take in deciding a new set-up????
- @DRudd13 The point stands: tallying your laptimes to your teammate's on a quali run still is the best procedure for adjusting the game difficulty.
The AI isn't changing their setups on the fly either. Those were all set by the devs in advance.
During gameplay the AI may not be 100% "there" too. In many instances the game will take control away from the AI (their decision making while driving the car, so to say) either completely or to some degree, hard coding set parameters for their behavior on track as the AI still is fast from perfectly realistic. Like when you and the AI have a shunt on a corner and you notice that their car barely deviates from their path? That kind of stuff.
One of the only sim racing titles that actually manages to have the AI working on the same driving model as the player is ACC, but that's a whole different conversation as they're trying to achieve different things with their AI.
So I'd wager it doesn't help as much as you think it does to know their exact setup. You're not comparing yourself to another human player on a TT leaderboard. The AI will be dealing with the same factors as you sometimes, sometimes it won't - like temperatures won't be fluctuating the same, downforce won't be working the same, acceleration won't be hitting the same, etc.
And again, for setting the game difficulty your best tool still is matching your laptime to your teammate's. @mariohomohMissed reading you brother😍
Not sure if this is correct.. but the ai only controls one car at a time. Well that used to be the case. It may be more these days but for the most part the ai will follow a predefined line and speed based on the difficulty level
