Forum Discussion

RedRevNow's avatar
RedRevNow
3 years ago

[Suggestion] F1 2023 (or F1 20xx) - ERS Model Overhaul

We desperately need a overhaul of the ERS Model for F1 2023 or F1 20xx: To be more precise, a combination of the old F1 2018 - F1 2019 ERS Model (where we could switch through multiple different ERS...
f1 22
Meza994's avatar
Meza994
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@GrandDragn Its engine modes that arent allowed to change.. ERS is something different to this rules.. ERS is not normal engine power and has nothing to do with fuel saving.. I think you dont understand what ERS is
GrandDragn's avatar
GrandDragn
3 years ago

@Meza994Engine mode aren't allowed to change by rules. ERS mode are not changed by drivers because it's all full automatic. Since 2016, Renault engine engineer Taffin explained the 120 kW of MHU-K is fully deployed during all the lap during when the driver flat out as soon as the car doesn't slip. Basically, drivers are only two ERS deployment mode: normal and overtake. The normal mode is faster on one lap. The overtake is faster on straight lines but slower on the entire lap. MGU-H is another story, it's only deploy when turbocharger hasn't enough exhaust gas to work and driver hasn't anything to do.
ERS mode in F1 game is very unrealistic since there should be only one mode that deploy exactly as much as it recover whatever the mode you use and whatever the session. There is no ERS management at all IRL, the car did all by itself, but each engine provider use ERS deployment differently during a lap and that's why some cars have rear flashing lights when others don't.
If ERS dysfunction IRL, driver just retire. There is no way the driver choose a low or high deploy mode. This don't exist.

Since ERS isn't really simulated in the game, Codemasters introduce these unrealistic modes to balance it but it's 100% a game logic, nothing to do with how a real F1 works.
So we already have ERS and fuel mode IG that don't be close to anything IRL and you claim for more... I don't understand why... there is already some fun to have to drive the car without adding micro management of how your engine is supposed to work... Why not a button to push to enable the turbo-charger? A button for the tear-offs? And another for the drink? At least the two last are realistic...

  • Meza994's avatar
    Meza994
    Seasoned Ace
    3 years ago

    @GrandDragnDude you got soo many things wrong😂

    First: The difference in lap time between fully deployed ERS and no ERS deployed is around 1.5s. This is deploying half the battery ingame and likely a bit more IRL = max battery charge is smaller. You can listen on youtube when the ERS is fully deployed, there are some wonderful exhaust mics showing the full deployment.. They can never deploy full power on all straights of a track except for Monaco because of the deployment limit.

    Edit: Obviously deploying half the battery while charging aswell so no charging would leave the battery at likely ~30%

    Second: Having different maps for a race is usefull when they try to charge the battery for "overtake" they can use ~10% less deployment which would cost them 0.15s per lap but gain them the opportunity to overtake or defend. Useful in situations like DRS trains, you cant overtake anyway so why bother deploying at the max? Not even mentioning wet weather when they definitely dont want the exact same deployment as in the dry..

    Third: There are still different engine modes IRL for example for practice and warmup/cooldown laps..

    Fourth: Did you even read some bits in here? My latest compromise idea was the option to mod the modes ourselfes even if its still only standard for the race and hotlap (which is on the deployment limit) for qualifying.. Thats no micro managing.. And the drivers do micro management with engine, fuel and tires non stop, they are never flat out IRL except for qualifying anyway..

    I find some arguments on here truly hilarious, guys want things that F1 drivers dont do in the game but cry about things that matter a lot in the race because "its not what the driver does"..

    Oh and just out of curiousity, why do you think Mercedes AMG put different ERS modes into their version of the W12 in iRacing? A car that was created to replicate the real one next to 100%?

    • GrandDragn's avatar
      GrandDragn
      3 years ago
      @Meza994 Firstly, I give more credit to a F1 engine chief engineer than a gamer.

      1. ERS is electricity. It has no sound. The sound of the exhaust you hear is because the driver shift gears with higher rpm.
      2. As I said, there is only an overtake mode that deploy ERS differently. As you know, ERS give a power boost. Mainly, the power boost is given at the start of the straight line to reach top speed quickly and is off when top speed is reached. You can saw it easily at Monza or Bakou, the speed of the cars decrease far before the braking point even in qualify with open DRS. In overtake, you want more top speed, so ERS deploying later and stay on until braking as it give more chance to overtake (or to avoid to be overtake) at the braking point.
      3. No, there is not. It's forbidden. There is only a safe mode that disable ERS used when engine failure. Don't you remember Mercedes whining when FIA bans party mode? There the normal mode, the safe mode, and the harvest mode than can be used only during outlap, inlap, formation lap, under safety car and during chequered flag lap. If a team want using another mode for the PU (engine or ERS) during the race or the qualification, it have to ask the FIA permission and argue a reliability problem. The only exception is like I said above, the overtake mode that deploy ERS differently (but has no effect on the petrol engine).
      4. It's unrealistic since there is only one version of the software for each engine provider and it give the same power based on the throttle position.

      Exemple? What I want a F1 driver doesn't do? And it's not because things matter a lot in race it have to be implement. Having the possibility to improve the engine in career is important for performance... but since it's forbidden until 2026 and the new regulation, it shouldn't be implemented, and at least give the option to turn it off for having a realistic mod. I see your point, giving optional more don't bless the less... but it is because it cost development time, it divide player online base, etc.

      iRacing argument... wait, because it's a game! And it's not because the real one can it's possible in F1 as it's ban since mid 2020. Ofc, the real W12 can have this modes for practice or no F1 events, but during qualify and race, it must use only the "balanced" and "attack" mode since it's labelled as it in the game. It's not because iRacing do it than F1 game have to do it also. And definitively, it's not because it's in a game than it's like in real life. In NFS I can do a lot o things that are forbidden in real streets 😅
      • Meza994's avatar
        Meza994
        Seasoned Ace
        3 years ago
        @GrandDragn Its not my fault when you dont understand what the engineer says😂

        1. i was referring to the exhaust sound when ERS is deployed at full power.. its a different sound as the engine is obviously working differently..

        2. Thats ERS mapping😂 and no the current system had major feedback by the drivers so Overtake is just a button that keeps on giving ERS.. It doesnt change the ERS mapping😂

        3. Thats literally what i said.. practice has no limitation on engine modes either.. ERS is not limited by this.. ERS deployment mapping has nothing to do with an engine mode😂 ERS modes also not having the effect on ICE that you say is not there for "Overtake"..

        4. I dont even understand what you are trying to say, it makes no sense sorry.. ERS mapping is not depending on the throttle position..

        The whole engine upgrading was always unrealistic, suppliers only ever upgraded when they brought a new ICE.. didnt work like: Here now your 4 race old ICE puts out 20 more bhp..

        Suuure Mercedes who explicitly make a very close version of the real life car for a extremely realistic simulation add a gamey thing just for fun.. Why not add engine modes then?..

        Sorry but you obviously dont know what the real life rules are so theres no point arguing..

Featured Places

Recent Discussions