Forum Discussion
@john_dragnst Meza can be very grating, sorry about that. There seems to be some misconceptions here some mix ups – and the media coverage over "party mode" ban certainly didn't help, it took a while until some proper pieces were written about that.
What got banned was the changing of ICE modes during competitive laps. Basically the various different matrixes of ignition times and fuel/air ratios that the combustion engine can work with. These are now set for the whole quali and race session, but the teams can still run and play with them pretty much as they please on practice sessions and so on. They used to be combined with different ERS deployment maps too, but ERS modes were not banned and drivers are free to switch from different ERS modes during the race. The ERS side of things is restricted only by the max 4MJ/lap ES > MGU-K deployment and 2MJ/lap MGU-K > ES harvesting, with ES <> MGU-H being unlimited. Teams still run different ERS mappings to make good use of those boundaries and work the SoC accordingly to their ongoing strategy, but granted they're changed only a few times during their stints.
Apart from the regs, that is also clear from those annotated onboard lap videos we often see in the community:
- Verstappen changing from recharge to a push mode on his Q3 pole lap at Abu Dhabi 2021 then back to recharge;
- Alonso engaging and disengaging recharge mode and other settings during formation lap in Abu Dhabi 2021
Formation laps have free use of pace car engine modes too, but from the dash you can see how they've still got a good range of modes mapped to their rotary dials. There's also the occasional radio talk that's easy to spot if you have F1 TV. The ERS harvest mode is actively used, but there's also different push modes and the default one for what Mercedes calls "neutral laps" I think. It's only the combustion engine side of things that were banned by the FIA.
This is all regulated by the fabled Technical Directive 37, but as far as I know TDs are released only for the teams, they're not publicly available.
Regarding the ERS "sound", Meza threw a curve ball with that one and I'll leave it up to him to explain how he can hear the ERS in sound mix. As far as I know, and to that extent I agree with you, you'll never hear the ERS working per se, only the effects of its state on certain components. Examples from the top of my head:
- You'll obviously hear the ICE revving up as the wheel speed increases with the MGU-K deploying power, but the latter is connected directed to the crankshaft (it's linked after the engine in the power train series) so it does not really change the functioning of the combustion engine;
- What the exhaust mic captures is the wastegate state and what you hear is mainly it being opened releasing pressure while the MGU-H drives the turbo. So again, a consequence of the ERS working rather than its sounds – the wastegate can be opened in other scenarios regardless of the MGU-H state, so it's incorrect to think of it as an ERS sound.
I guess it's mainly the latter that Meza was referring to, but it's up to him to clarify what "ERS sounds" he had in mind.
By the way, yes, the ERS does take throttle position into account when deploying power so I do not get his point here either. From all I know it even goes beyond the basic on/off throttle state, working with what they call throttle demand instead of throttle position strictly speaking, but that taps onto how these cars have different throttle maps even on a driver per driver basis so let's leave it at that. But yes, the ordinary ERS map will consider throttle demand, gear, engine speed, and wheel speed when deploying power or driving the turbine.
@Meza994 do you have or used to have an iRacing subscription? Or access to their forums in another way? You're playing this "W12 in iRacing" card so often yet... Not saying you're wrong, but can you elaborate on that instead of treating it like a trump card? Why are you assuming that it is the real deal? Take for example Mercedes' James Vowles interview to iRacing own Downshift podcast, episode 40. He goes on with detail on how the partnership came to be and how it panned out. Basically:
- Mercedes provided "broad spectrum ideas and some car data";
- iRacing put out the car model;
- Mercedes' Anthony Davidson (who is still their main simulator driver) and esports drivers Opmeer and Moreno (I think?) tested it out and said it was realistic;
- There are still areas Vowles think they need to work on, like their tyre model.
It is misguiding to say it was made by Mercedes. It's an iRacing product made in collaboration with Merc. Even your "NASCAR expert" Jarno Opmeer was involved in the colab 🤣
By all accounts it does seem to be a pretty good rendition of a F1 car, but unless you can back that a given thing was indeed included in the "broad spectrum ideas" and "some car data" Mercedes provided, I don't think you should be so liberally associating the iRacing and the real deal. Even more so when you often play that other card about Codemasters being casual games or the like and we shouldn't expect realism from them.
@mariohomohI dont know why some things need to be explained for little kids.. I explained that i mean the engine working differently producing a different exhaust sound..
ERS not being deployed when off throttle is truly shocking😱 How far it goes on differing depending on the throttle demand is tough to gauge - especially if even you can only say "from all you know".. In the end it doesnt matter much for this conversation as this as much as throttle maps in general will never be a thing in the game (wouldnt call the controller settings a throttle map)
Well it depends on who talks about the W12.. Some said it was in very close cooperation with Merc to get the details and with their actual simulator driver saying its realistic thats fair game IMO
And as i see you are still whining over Opmeer having the knowledge of how F1 cars should handle.. You should really let this one go buddy, when you dont understand an analogy its pointless to keep on going.
Well what do we have in comparison? The iRacing Merc is the closest thing to the real car that there is in any sim/game. I dont know what the realism part about the game has to do with it either.. Compare the F1 games with any actual sim and yeah stop complaining about my opinion lol.. Of course its not a NFS or whatever - although some expect those physics for the Supercars😂 but criticizing me for taking the iRacing W12 a million times over the Codemasters W12 is actual childish buddy.
I like your insights and general thoughts but you should really let it go that Codemasters aim to get the cars as close as possible to real life. They try to make it entertaining and accessible for casuals while also creeping closer to the real thing. Its not a comparison and not an insult to Codemasters, just completely different goals. And also let it go that Opmeer knows how the current F1 cars handle because he drove Formula Renault.. Like really dont try to keep this one going
- mariohomoh3 years agoHero (Retired)
@Meza994 wrote:@mariohomohI dont know why some things need to be explained for little kids..
You're being a douche, mate. While I love discussing anything motorsports pretty much everywhere, lately I'm finding myself refraining from chiming in in any discussions that you're taking part just for how you're treating others. The quoted part isn't the first time in this thread alone, for days now I'm seeing you being unnecessarily callous with others in this forum.
I like you, Meza, but I honestly don't remember you ever being this * before.
Even now with these new ERS talking points, for how much I wanted to keep the debate going, your attitude towards other members here got to the point of putting me off. You were not this disrespectful before.