Solved
I Like Sloane
There, I said it.
I know you(Bioware) want me to pick Reyes, and made her one of the few killable characters in the game, but she's straight with me and the world, has a beautifully complicated ba...
Sloane great pick
Forum Discussion
Just as a note: poison as a small scale is always used for murder, and if you go larger scale you get the Jonestown lemonade, gas showers, or chemical weapons, all of which tend to be considered exceptionally bad.
Nope, and I already gave one counter-example: Collective agents may be using poison as a mean to commit suicide when they are captured by Outcasts. To avoid being tortured/interrogated or something. Poison can be used as a mean to protect wares from vermin. And actually, at least since Paracelsus, it is well known that very small doses of poison has often beneficial effects and are used as medicines.
So no: poison is *not always* used for murder.
Also, someone checked, and if you don't give the formula to Dr. Nakamura during the drug quest, the drugs are still being sold after Reyes takes over, presumably on the behest of whoever is running Kedara Port
Yes, and I definitely don't like it. Though as far as I understood, they are sold *by the same guys*, and those had previously worked for Sloane. I don't really know how to interpret the fact: those dealers could have broken lose, they could have changed their employer (i.e. started working for Reyes), it can be some game glitch / Devs oversight... I really don't know, but if they are actually working for Reyes, that would definitely prevent me from liking him. I would still take his side, but I would no longer treat him as a potential buddy.
While both sides use Rodney King beatings as part of their tactics, possibly out of the same pissed off code of maintaining public order (but without any question of racism), we only have proof of the Collective using more traditionally recognized torture methods. In fact, the torturee indicated that Sloane is generally averse to torture, and would just kill uncooperative hostiles
Uh... There are like 3 or 4 cases early on Kadara where Outcasts are beating people on Your eyes, up to the point of breaking bones. There are computer records about beating prisoners by Outcasts. Perhaps we define tortures differently, because I have never seen Collective agents doing anything else than beating. Or actually I have only seen *one* Collective agent beating *one* Outcast soldier; while I have seen *several* groups of Outcasts mobbing civvies *numerous* times...
As for Vehn Terev, essentially that is a case of running a country with a large Catholic population, capturing the guy who sold Pope Francis to ISIS, and deciding to kill him after interrogating him with a large phone book
Uh... So You mean killing people because it is convenient and satisfies some of Your minions. So how it compares to capturing a guy who tortured numerous civvies, killed a number of Your friends, and bled Your family dry? Because some of people that like Sloane suggested that Collective should simply release all those captured Outcast mobsters rather than "shot them in back of their heads". I just commented that killing someone who is not a danger to You is still worse in my book than killing someone who is actively Your enemy.
Also (book lore): Sloane was the one who requested to outright kill first rebels on Nexus, and it was actually Tann and Addison who stopped him. To me Sloane is simply trigger-happy and loves when blood flows. :-(
Eventually, Catholics are basically against the very idea of capital punishment, You know... ;-)
There is a fine line between guerilla warfare and terrorism, and the more you make use of "controversial methods" the closer you get to outright terrorism. For example, ISIS is using "controversial methods" to fight the oppressor right now
ISIS are not partisans - they are literally declaring themselves a "country" (or "State"). Collective is a group of guerilla fighting against stronger oppressors.
Bur You are right - the more You use "controversial methods" the worse for everybody. Just please note that there is no mention about Collective ever using poison on Outcasts; and as far as tortures are concerned - they are bilateral.
I was pissed that after I let the Charlatan go and DIDN'T shoot him, his personal squad of elite minions still automatically get sicced on me.
Nope, You exclusively sided with Sloane, and then entered his secret base of operation. While he possibly does not treat Your actions "personal", he cannot trust You any longer as a possible ally. Would You just let Reyes enter SAM's core on Hyperion and Nexus hydroponics unrestricted after You foiled his plan? And actually I am quite sure that he would NOT temper with those as far as I read the man... ;-)
You claim you're trying to put together as many resources as you can and you decide to get your base wiped out and your stuff confiscated because after all the "white knight" missions you put me through I don't let someone get shot in the back. That's all I did. C'mon! What the heck man!?
Which means that You voted with Your action on an open war instead of pulling out one sore tooth. *I* do understand that You were simply adhering to Your sense of honor, but to Reyes You took a side in the conflict. He can still like, he can not take this personal, but he cannot trust his men and secrets to be safe with You anymore. I do not blame him for that.
If I don't shoot Reyes the base should still be on speaking terms with me, if potentially fairly irritated. So what if I don't act exactly like them, they already said I couldn't be in their little club
If You defended sheriff of Nottingham from Robin Hood, the Marry Men should still talk to You rather than treat You as their foe? I sympathize with Your opinion, and I would be really glad if they just stopped You at the entry to their cave with something like "You are no longer wanted here" once. But unfortunately it is not how it works, and it is not surprising to me they actively opposed You.
Poison-
My rebuttal was based on your argument, which centered on the use of poison as an offensive weapon similar to guns and bombs. I considered and discarded the medicinal argument based on SAM's analysis. I will revisit the base and check, but I believe that the poison was being distilled down to a concentration much to high to be used for medicinal purposes other than assisted suicide. Also, please note that only some poisons can be used beneficially in any dose, the rest are just poison. I will count the suicide pill theory as possible, although there is little evidence that such a tool is being used frequently.
Drugs-
Trust Reyes or don't, but when he is in charge if he wanted them gone...
Torture-
You apparently haven't found the torture room out in the Badlands yet. Definitely the Collective, definitely a lot more than a beating. Go find it and get back to me
Vehn Terev-
Vehn Terev is a traitor and a spy and admits it. By the laws of war he can be killed on the spot even outside of pirate colonies. If she didn't kill him she would have to defend him against all of the Angara who would try and do it anyway. Theoretically she could turn him over to Aya, but she doesn't have a map and the local Angara want Aya to But Out (see Kedara intel in Resistance HQ). Her final option is to give him to a representative of a government she is still more or less at war with who shows up and promptly demands she hand him over.
Also, if I deserve to be shot at because my refusal to let Sloane get shot in the back makes me a threat, then someone who has actively collaborated with the Kett is definitely a threat
Note: if a "him" wanted to go in shooting it was probably Kandros not Sloane, as Sloane is a "her". Also, I have not read any Mass Effect novels, but based on the intel around the Nexus Sloane had joined the revolt before it even officially kicked off
Guerilla War-
Every Guerilla organization claims it either is an independent country or government or represents an independent country or government. The size or evident futility of a movement does not have any bearing on the morality of its actions. It is possible to fight a mostly clean guerilla war and win, see American Revolution, WW2 European Resistance groups, etc.
The Collective and the Outcasts pretty much seemed equal military-wise, and I doubt you will find many people who would buy the idea that the Outcasts are vastly more powerful than the Collective.
High Noon/Base-
Robin Hood has never shot the Sherriff in the back in any portrayal I've seen. It's always in the face(/front). I dragged around doing Robin Hood acts with Guy of Gisborne, who then gets huffy when I keep some joker from putting an arrow in the Sherriff's back because Robin Hood is better than that.
I exclusively sided with not letting someone get shot in the back. I have never actively worked against Reyes, and if he was as interested in pragmatism and saving the world from Sloane he'd test my friendship, not try to kill me
Reyes quests-
Yes, Reyes may just be helping solve problems that Sloane is ignoring, or...
Everyone knows the story of David and Goliath. Fewer people know the story of when David grew up, became king, and had an adult son of his own. There are some tough family problems that David handles poorly, but he loves his family and figures they love him back. However, his kid wants to take over and figures the old man must go, so he parks himself outside the gate to David's throne room, and when anyone goes to have the king help them out with a problem the kid grabs them, tells them the king is too busy for them, and offers to solve the problem himself. A bunch of solved problems later he turns his "helpfulness" into an army and goes gunning for Dad.
I feel like somewhere in there is an analogy to Reyes
I do not like Reyes and Tann! I do not like them, SAM-I-am.
