NHL 23 summed up in this video

@EA_Aljo 

Are there any specifics you can share about what people thought were/weren't rolled back?

When you say patches, what do you mean? My personal gripes are mostly about changes to the tuners for online play.

You already said there was no intention of doing anything with the beta feedback so I think we can all agree the rest of 23 is a lost cause, at least for online. Obviously we'd all love to have instant fixes but let's be real - any meaningful changes will always happen in the next title at the earliest - Best we can do is all learn from this and push forward.


What big changes are you referring to, exactly? Feedback on offline modes like Franchise and BaP are because the team has shown an extreme lack of care and support for those modes over the years and it has snowballed something fierce. I don't personally care about offline stuff and my main gripes are mostly related to Clubs but I don't believe anything people have been asking for have been unreasonable.

Me not wanting the puck to blast off like it was fired out of a railgun is a huge ask? Me not wanting my mascot to phase in and out of existence, melding bodies with horror icon Chuckie in the crowd is asking way too much? Me thinking it'd be a great idea to give clubs even just one extra colour to use for alternate jerseys is some devastating ask for the dev team? I could literally fill an entire post worth of space with these little asks (that I've been providing feedback for for years). I think the only things I have suggest that was added, probably by pure coincidence, was the "Chef" emotes in clubs.

It's clear to me that the team has exhausted, absolutely maxed out their NHL code - The only way anyone is going to eventually be happy is if the team takes at least a year off (sure seems like you've started with 23) and to work on making things correct right out of the gate for the next title. I wouldn't care if a game was bad st the start but you took the time to make it even slightly better towards the end - Just look at something like Battlefield 4.

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@TTZ_Dipsy 

There were times we changed nothing and people still wouldn't believe that was the case. We rolled back to the beta and were accused of not actually doing that. So, no matter what we do, people are going to hold fast to their assumptions.

I absolutely agree the game needs improvements. Patches have been released to help, but obviously there are bigger issues the community wants resolved. However, the more time spent on 23 means less time for what's coming down the road. You all want big changes. You want it to not feel like the same game with a roster update. In order for that to happen, work on the current game needs to halt at some point.

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That's not right, or fair.   You want us to be ok with a half cooked game this year so you can focus on next year?   Cool, stop telling us to contact our retailer and have EA give us our money.  It's EA telling us you're not doing crap, not that retailer.  Also, the support ended day of release this year.  The patches you e released fixed none of our complaints (You attempted with presentation and still fell way short of what was originally promised) and you want us to just have faith that if we give you a pass this year, next year will be better?  We've all heard that like 5 times now.  When does the back and forth blaming end, and real accountability begin?  Do you all want to be jobless in a few years?  Because with how you're handling this series, I give it 5 years max before EA calls it quits.  Maybe that's the intention?  Milk it until profits dry up then close up shop?   Obviously above your head aljo but it seems apparent from the outside looking in.

Maybe this has to do with the engine change. We've seen reporting that Frostbite hasn't been an easy transition for any of the EA games utilizing it.

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"Frostbite is easily the worst, *$*#*#, most pain in the $!@ engine I've ever used in my career, and I shipped Wolfenstein off the Doom 3 tech," said Heir on Twitter. "The exact same game design in Unreal vs. Frostbite will take dozens more engineers, money, and time on FB because of the way its architected and how far behind it is from Unreal (unless you are making BF). There is a reason I chose Unreal Engine 4 as my engine for my next project.".

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"We obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters."

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It would seem that the push to have a cinematic experience in sports games is the major reason behind the push to Frostbite:

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"I had met with their people and actually pitched this idea to all of the EA Sports teams this crazy idea of Longshot, and I had been pitching a campaign mode for sports. I'm pretty sure without Frostbite we really couldn't do it, and that's one of the things that held us back from trying to execute this thing, and they were getting Frostbite first. In the meantime, I think they were seeing some of the other sports franchises go down this path and have some success. "

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It's actually a really good article on the impact changing to Frostbite has had at EA: https://www.vg247.com/how-the-frostbite-engine-became-a-nightmare-for-ea-in-general-and-bioware-in-particular

@TTZ_Dipsy 

I'm talking about the 4 patches that were released already. I'm talking about the reasoning behind tuners not being released. We had a lot of feedback in previous years that tuners ruined the game. They may return. There's no hard rule against them, but we have avoided them due to the idea the game is always better during the beta. The reality of that is that it takes time for peope to adjust to the new game each year. This happens within a few weeks and then we get completes that we changed something. Even when there were no changes to gameplay or at least not the kinds of changes that were being assumed.

As far as what people assumed was rolled back goes, that would mean going through years of posts on previous forums as well as the old enthusiast forums. Mainly, people felt the gameplay had somehow changed. We would get comments about how the game felt so good during the beta, but the first tuner would ruin it. Then we'd say there weren't changes to what they were assuming was changed and we wouldn't be believed. So, the decision was made to make as few changes to gameplay as possible since year after year we were told not to change it.

The railgun issue you mentioned is one that I haven't seen much in 23. I saw a lot more in 22, but I haven't had issues with it this year. Once in a while it happens though. Hopefully, it'll be fully addressed in the future.

The lack of tuner updates are the only issue with 23 though! We have bugs such as players skating through bodies, stick lift being completely broken! Goalies are horrible unless it's a cross-crease. Offline we can adjust tuners but the games broken to the fact even setting them on a realistic setting doesn't help! This is why the community is upset! 4 patches were very moderate ones and it hasn't fixed a bunch of issues regarding this game! We can provide so many videos until enough is enough! It's a full priced game which makes it unfair to leave it at its current state! It would be more reasonable if it wasn't a costly full priced game, although in this case it isn't! 

"The patch for NHL X is called NHL X+1 and will come out  in October".  This used to be a stupid, unfunny joke people would make, now it's essentially the official development strategy for the EA NHL franchise.  Releasing a game and then expecting your customers to pay full price again next year for the chance at seeing any gameplay fixes isn't acceptable and won't be successful long-term .  They've only got away with it in recent years because while there were issues with the the last couple of NHL games they were more or less solid out of the gate.  But when an unpolished, unfinished, unbalanced mess like NHL 23 is put out there the "fire and forget" model of software maintenance is exposed.

The real kicker for NHL 23 is that all of the major gameplay issues people are complaining about now were pointed out during the beta.  It's not like they just became apparent after people adjusted to a new meta months after release.  There was plenty of opportunity early on to address the problems and polish the game.  Instead EA expects us to pony up more money next fall in the hopes that MAYBE some of our feedback will have resulted in a better game.  And of course there will be a whole new suite of problems in that game that won't be fixed until some future release ( if at all ).

I've tried for years to do what's been asked of the community.  I've provided feedback for specific problems with video evidence.  I've been reasonable in accepting that not everything can be fixed for every game.  But at this point it feels like there's no real point.  Feedback is irrelevant for the current game ( you know, the one people have actually paid for and are trying to play right now ) and any changes are years away at best.  And what changes are made seem to be made to cater to some "community" out there that thinks that NHL 23 is good as-is.  What's the point?

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@KIJHLPhenom14 wrote:

The lack of tuner updates are the only issue with 23 though! We have bugs such as players skating through bodies, stick lift being completely broken! Goalies are horrible unless it's a cross-crease. Offline we can adjust tuners but the games broken to the fact even setting them on a realistic setting doesn't help! This is why the community is upset! 4 patches were very moderate ones and it hasn't fixed a bunch of issues regarding this game! We can provide so many videos until enough is enough! It's a full priced game which makes it unfair to leave it at its current state! It would be more reasonable if it wasn't a costly full priced game, although in this case it isn't! 

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When are players skating through bodies? I know there can be some clipping, but I haven't seen where a player completely passes through another player. we would definitely need video of that.

The stick lift is very sensitive, but I wouldn't call it broken. I've adapted and most of the time my stick lifts aren't causing penalties. I'd like to see it be more forgiving, but not as easy to do as it used to be. We have gotten many requests over the years for a more simulation style game from the hardcore community here. I've always said if the game was as sim as people want it to be, they probably wouldn't like it. The stick lift is a good example as you need to have perfect positioning to make it work without taking a penalty. 

I'm not saying the patches we've released have address all the issues raised by the community. It's been mentioned that we haven't done anything post launch because we don't care. I was trying to point out how that's not the case.

Stick lift penalties are happening even when you aren't even close to the player. I have literally seen videos of it being called when the players stick just catches air. As for the players going through the body there literally was video published on Twitter exposing it happening. If I find the video I will post it. Again this game was full price! It needs to be made out to be worth a full priced product which it isn't! 

@EA_Aljo 
I can't speak for others but those large updates that only really add jerseys and stuff do absolutely nothing for me personally; I feel like they don't do anything to push the game forward and stuff like that should be in the same vein as HUT cards where it's just pre-planned and easy.

You don't just refuse to do anything after years of feedback pleading you not to revert the beta - You learn what made the beta so great and work off of that. Deciding to just not make any further tweaks is a terrible decision, especially for a yearly title. Not saying it's what you're thinking but the community definitely isn't the bad guy for wanting at least a drip feed of fixes. 

I've shown video evidence of the puck going crazy the last 5 years in a row - I'd bet my life that we'll see it again in 24. It's disheartening seeing bugs, no matter how minor, still present a decade later.

I just want to say, that not long ago, I stated in another topic in the forums, that this game does not reward you for playing good hockey, watching this video on YouTube, this is exactly what I was talking about. There are some good plays with the poke check, or putting the body on someone, but the puck carrier gets it right back and they score. When it happens as often as it does In this game, it gets hard to want to keep playing... Big kudos to the guy on YouTube for putting this video together, because I definitely do not have the patience or time to do it, so thank you! 

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@EA_Aljo wrote:

@TTZ_Dipsy 

There were times we changed nothing and people still wouldn't believe that was the case. We rolled back to the beta and were accused of not actually doing that. So, no matter what we do, people are going to hold fast to their assumptions.

I absolutely agree the game needs improvements. Patches have been released to help, but obviously there are bigger issues the community wants resolved. However, the more time spent on 23 means less time for what's coming down the road. You all want big changes. You want it to not feel like the same game with a roster update. In order for that to happen, work on the current game needs to halt at some point.

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I feel like the line "you all want big changes" is the exact opposite of what the majority of us want.

We all want small changes. Many of us have stated the base game is fantastic and is in a really good spot it just need tweaks and adjustments to make online amazing.

The problem has been for years the EA is making these big changes for literally no reason. It's why everybody says all of their changes are so extreme from poke checks to hitting to passing to goalies, etc.

The answer 90% of the time is in the middle of all the extremes EA puts out. 

All eyez on NHL 24 - make or break..

Skip 23 was probebly not a bad idea.

'The team' are already set for 24.

I think they felt the same, like the time is not enough, so they 'sacrifice' 23 for what we all can hope, will be a better cause.

Yes, the pressure for 24 is big. A lot on the line. At least that's how it feels.

I've been playing ESHL for many years.
I buy and will buy a game every year.
not because every year it is worth its price
this year's patch was not worth the money
, but here I have friends, this is my hobby, I spend a lot of time with friends
NHL - a means of communication

now the state of the game and its support is pretty bad

But I think I'll buy 24

Exactly! Like I think some things could have waited! The Michigan/One touch puck movement were things that shouldn't have been priority, nor X factors or even cross-play at this point! After 2 years why hasn't this game improved? Ben Ross literally had NHL 21 worked on working basically by himself while 22 was being put into production! Whoever is in leadership now needs to listen to the community! If things cannot be fixed that is when communication comes in! Instead of be silent and leave us customers in the dark that paid full price for half a game! That is where professionalism and customer empathy lacks! My 7 year old son quit playing 23 after an online game that literally had him in tears as he matched a top player! He then tried offline but felt bored and went to play something else. I put him in IRL hockey today since at least then he has something better to do than play this! It at least was worth the $2000 I paid! 23 isn't even worth $30 at this state! 

That video was downright painful to watch.  Idk how you could have any responsibility over this game (EA mgmt, devs), see the state of gameplay and not feel embarrassed and ashamed.  The real answer is that it comes down to money.  The people that make the design decisions of this game are interested in one thing only - money.  They don't give a single care about the actual gameplay resembling real hockey.  They don't care at all about catering their focus and decisions around the majority of their player base.  They care about money.  And what's the only way for them to make money post-launch?  You guessed it, HUT.  The game mode that's ruined this game, Madden and probably more.  Until people stop shelling out for a pay to win game mode, we're going to continue to get the same awful game every single year.  We get some gimmicky trash like the Michigan + Zegras goals, the national anthem before the game, etc.  The bare minimum to give the appearance something is being done to improve the actual gameplay to keep trying to get the most people to buy the game, then it's all HUT all the time until the next game comes out.  The people that are spending money on HUT are just as much to blame IMO for the state of this game and it will not change until they stop.

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@jadaseian wrote:
@Sega82megaLet's be honest here, it's the same thing every year. "Maybe next year will be better, maybe they need to just fine tune the new engine, maybe maybe maybe." At this point, history has proven annual releases produce crap products. Everything from the physics, EA communication, to even these forums are an absolute joke. I win 85% of my games online and still can't get over the blatant issues with it. Ultimately, we have to speak with our wallets, and I'm hoping to stay strong and not buy 24. It's just a shame cause real life hockey is my sport, and this is the only option from a game perspective.

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I feel this, I play some drop-ins (not as much because of how many issues there are with the gameplay) but when I'm on my game, I'm very hard to play against, most games are lost by 1 or 2 goals. Then there are the games lost by 4+ goals (usually due to what is shown on the video) then I just stop playing because it's just not fun when that happens. I can handle losing I have no problem with that, but when it happens like the video posted, it's really hard to want to even touch this game..

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@Nammer604 wrote:
@FloundinatorQQ Totally agree. When do you everything right and still get screwed, it's no fun. I find myself battling the completely broken mechanics of this years game more than any other NHL game EVER!

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Can you go in to detail on which mechanics are broken?

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@Nammer604 wrote:
@EA_AljoYou said that you watched that video right? Everything in there and forced cross creases that go right through my stick blade, feet, body etc....

Offense has always been favored in this game but this years edition is just beyond frustrating when trying to defend. I feel really bad for full time d men because you basically took away 2 of their most effective tools to defend.

I play a lot and I also play in competitive leagues (WOHL, LG for west coast players). Myself and everyone that I know who are good players say the EXACT same thing.
This game just isn't fun and frustrating to play. We only play it because we love hockey and don't have any other alternative.

EA is lucky that they're the only one's making hockey because if they had competition and a developer that listened, gave CONSTANT feedback/communication and made changes that we asked for, A LOT of us wouldn't hesitate to jump ship.

I'm sick and tired of saying the same thing year after year. Instead of focusing on core GAMEPLAY that functions PROPERLY, they keep adding in gimmicky things that no one is asking for. You wonder why the same things are broken year after year, it's because they're never fixed properly and more stuff is added into an already broken game. The code is so jumbled and massive that of course when you "fix" something, something else ends up being broken in the process.

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This right here.  They're so busy trying to make a new flashing mechanic to put on the box as a selling point that they completely neglect the broken stuff they leave in the game from last year in the two years before that. Stop trying to add crap nobody wants or asks for it and fix the things we have been asking for for years. What good is adding new stuff to the game if it is already broken when you add it, and you are adding it on top of already broken mechanics that you refuse to fix? It's no wonder this game is in the state it's in. Terrible management.