From AI generated offside. Interference calls, and goals called back for taking an extra shot at the goalie. Game just is no longer enjoyable. Packs WAY OVER PRICED. Content of packs abysmal. The having to win by 5 goals. 5% tax for sales (lol). And problems that have existed to for years. Never fixed. Icing calls not made. Offside not detected. The bias shown between online and offline players in the ability to attain objectives and rewards. I could finish this by saying. Hope next year's copy of this broken game will be better. But that hasn't happened year after year. EA has gotten away from the original concept of this game. To make it enjoyable and inclusive for all. Regardless skill level. Online/offline. And have replaced it with the concept of making as much $ as they can. This msg will probably get me banned. But it's my last year from 94 till now.

Appreciate the reply @EA_AljoIt's nothing personal, I have no issue with yourself. You seem a decent guy thats doing a thankless job. If you remember back to the first conversation we had, I couldn't speak highly enough of the game and how much I've enjoyed it for decades. I have nothing against EA either. Probably 90% of the games I've played over the years have been made by EA. FIFA, PGA, Battlefield and many more. I know you guys can make really good games. I still stand by everything I've said about 24. I have played well over a 1000 games so far this year and I feel like I'm not just playing against someone online, I feel like I'm battling against my own AI. No matter what formation or tactics I use the game is just constant rushes/breakaways. I have tried to explain this before. The defenseman doesn't defend the zone. If a fwd is attacking at full speed the defenseman should recognise that and not take the shortest route to the fwd. Just about everytime in that scenario the fwd passes the defenseman will ease. Its totally impossible for the user to do anything to stop it because as soon as you switch to the closest defenceman he skates in the wrong direction for that split second before you get control. I don't understand how you can have a game thats been so good for decades (minus a couple), which is impressive in itself, to get so bad. You'd think it would improve with technology? As for the YouTube fella above, its sleeveless, right? The guy that gets interviews with EA devs. Not really that surprising you defend the game at every turn on here. I'd happily defend many of the previous versions of this game but I stand by opinion of 24.

@EA_Aljo wrote:@dogheels I'm definitely not going to deny that the game has its issues. However, it doesn't appear to be broken. You say you want the game to be enjoyable regardless of skill level. What would make that better for you? There are already multiple difficulty settings. In HUT, you are going to most often get matched up with others around your skill level as well. You also have multiple difficulty levels for offline play in this mode. This may not happen so much during off peak hours where there's a smaller player pool though. So, what are your ideas to make the game more enjoyable for all skill levels?As far as the bias between offline/online goes, are you talking about how there occasionally is an online requirement for the daily objectives? The majority of them are completed in offline modes. Not to mention all the Moments objectives. There are far more offline objectives than online. Of course we're going to reward the online players as well when there's a requirement to play a Rivals game. Thankfully, HUT Rush objectives often include XP collectibles so skipping that game and not completing the daily requirements can be made up there.Also, we always encourage video of any issues you find. It would be great to see the offside calls being missed as they seem to be very accurate and I haven't seen other videos showing those calls not being made. I have seen times when icing doesn't get called though. Interference calls are absolutely frustrating. I hear ya there. If there were one thing I could fix immediately, that would be it. I still don't think the game is broken or unplayable and it doesn't appear that I'm alone in that thought. At least according to the amount of players the game currently has. Of course, not everyone has the same definition of fun though and it's unfortunate we didn't meet that for you. Hopefully, future releases will be more to your liking.Your definition of playable must be different from the vast majority of players. I get your job is to promote the game but to deny this years game is awful doesn't help. EA has to start listening to users or there won't be anyone buying it in the future.

@KlariskraysNHL wrote:@Treatmentworke66Because skill-zoning as it was called allowed anyone to compete by letting the AI do their work for them. They want the human deciding more of the game than the AI. Yes it's hard when you only have 1 person controlling 1 of the 4 other skaters and a goalie. And the really good players would just take the puck out of the zone and re-enter hoping to break up the formation. The goal imo is to have more of a flow even if it's repetitive.Yep, you're spot on as to why the changes were made. It's disappointing though that the route chosen was ultimately picked as I believe there were many good alternatives. I believe somewhere along the lines between the gamechanger/dev interactions and overall community feedback, there wasn't a deep enough analysis on why the issue existed. This lead to a bandaid of a "fix" rather than an actual meaningful upgrade to the core gameplay loop.Overarching Issue:Defense is having incredible success playing off-puck "zone" defense.1st Question:Why are humans electing to play off-puck defense? This is the root of the pain felt by players. This should be where we start. This needs to be answered before moving forward.Answer: Because they can't trust off-puck defenders to make routine plays and cover almost completely stationary offensive players.Commentary:Okay, that seem fair right? If I can't trust my AI to do mundane tasks, then I have to forfeit the on-puck pressure to ensure obvious off-puck threats are being dealt with.This should give offensive players some openings thought right? We're having an AI chase the puck and a human take another player and sit them in the slot covering nothing, right?2nd Question:Why are offensive players unable to take advantage of a predictably over-aggressive AI chasing and a human essentially covering no-mans land?1 - The offensive AI don't move into useful space. The insane pressure works because there's limited passing options despite the fact that there should be open options2 - If human puck carriers do beat their AI mark, the goalies aren't giving up enough "unpredictable" high-danger chances which funnels them into specific spots on the ice where the human opponent is standing.3 - Due to game speed and acceleration, the human can essentially stand in the low slot and cover the backdoor while having enough time to shutdown a shot via DSS because the shooting animations are actually aligned with reality unlike foot speed, so there's no time to "bait" human defenders into a choice. They can effectively cover everything at once.4 - There's no net-front presence so screens and tips aren't a viable strategy. That should be an easy "skill zone" counter.Commentary:So we've now outlined the "WHY" and the "HOW" so now it's time to suggest mitigation/fixes/balancing3rd Question:How can we incentivize on-puck defense?1 - Ensure AI defenders can do extremely mundane tasks like "cover a non-moving attacker in the slot" 2 - Make shooting more lethal. Provide a much higher success rate on "normal" shots from high-danger areas. That way humans can't "puppy guard" the "spots"3 - Redesign in-zone offensive AI movement to provide more scoring options. Consistent net-front, better cycling routes, add a high cycle pattern for defensemen4 - Redesign in-zone defensive AI marking. Switch to M2M coverage so more passing and possession will naturally lead to more openings5 - Make screens and tips more prevalent to incentivize using DSS on defense to take away shooting lanes.6 - Slow the foot speed down to provide more time for shooting animations to play out. This also makes using DSS more viable so its a fair balance. You have the time to accurately track the puck with DSS, so the onus is on you to "shutdown" shots. It's a fair balance add for both parties7 - Slowing foot speed (mainly acceleration) should allow attackers to bait defenders in with speed leading to more chasing/chaos if defenders continue over-committing. This is something really well executed and felt in FIFA. If you go full-sprint to close a gap on the ball carrier but they're going 75%, they can easily switch directions and leave you in the dust8 - Drastically reduce agility to allow for proper containment of puck carrier. 9 - Increase incidental and low-speed contact to ensure on-puck defense is getting rewarded for closing gaps, containment, and ultimately using the body position correctly.10 - Make all 8 AI players just stand still and do nothing so you can plays "ones" under the guise of a 5v5 setting.Commentary:So out of the 10 options I've included above in a certainly non-exhaustive list of possible mitigation techniques to the "skillzone" epidemic, I find it rather disappointing that #10 ultimately won out and numbers 1-9 were never even tried.Numbers 1-9 would all result in:More flowMore passingMore shots on netMore scoring chancesMore goalsMore emphasis on puck possession, extending possessions (without a "fatigue engine" even!)More on-puck defenseMore ways for human defense to contain puck carriersMore skill required to execute both defense and offenseMore ways to play the game in general leading to a less repetitive gameplay loop for ALL GAME MODES ONLINE AND OFFLINENumber 10 resulted in:More on puck defenseLess passingLess shootingLess scoring chancesMore goalsMore emphasis on puck possession (because there's no passing nor reliable containment options so puck carrier just circles for 10 minutes)Less ways for human defense to contain puck carriersLess skill required to execute both offense and defenseLess ways to play the game leading to an even more repetitive gameplay loopThe STEEP decline in enjoyment of ALL OFFLINE MODES as the AI now stand still and watch you play 1's against a CPU defender who lacks a vested interest in ever committing to or attacking the puck in any way, shape, or form.Final Observations:The route chosen was a bandaid "fix" that didn't even "fix" community opinions on the state of the 1v1 game. For as many sweats praising this change there's 40 casuals wondering why everyone is standing still in a hockey game.This route fundamentally changed the offline experience of the game. No longer can one "slider" their way into an experience that feels lifelike. The AI simply do not and will not attack the puck like you see in every hockey game ever any level ever. I'm sure there's a lot of players like me who would willingly buy and support this product still if the offline on-ice experience was engaging and immersive, but it quite simply is not and can not be with the current state of the AI. Online is now the only viable option to have a somewhat "realistic" hockey experience as at least human defenders will attack the puck carrier.There were many alternative options that I believe the competitive scene should've been advocating for that would've not only added "realism" to the experience but also added "realism" in an "accessible" way that didn't overcomplicate the gameloop/experience. There's tons of overlap between changes that can "make the game more skilled" and "make the game more realistic" but the competitive scene refuses to think beyond extremely high-level fixes because at the end of the day, most of that community doesn't know anything more about hockey than a non-hockey playing buddy you invite to a game to fill a seat because your hockey-loving friend backed out last second.At the same time, none of these suggested changes are "in the weeds" if you will. These are all very understandable concepts one could generate after watching a single game of real life hockey and comparing it to the current game state of the series. What's fun about hockey? The snipes, the saves, the chaos in-front, most importantly the UNPREDICTABILITY!We have COMPLETE PREDICTABILITYNO chaosNO snipes outside of pre-determined patterns that we all KNOW will go inNO saves that make you jump out of your chair because the goalies make the hardest of saves look mundane if not a pre-approved scoring method

Guys it’s really as simple as this: the game is a clunky mess. Both the menus and the gameplay. ‘Broken’ might not be the word, but this game is in no way a proud portrayal of the sport I love. It’s a zippy, clunky, micro-transactional, glitchy mess. Play MLB the Show for ten minutes and you’ll be in awe over what a proper portrayal looks like.

Mee too this is the last year i play ea nhl games. Nhl 24 broken gameplay changes were the last nail in the coffin. Ai so bad, goalies, that speedboost hitting is so unrealistic and kills the game. Game just rewards players hows just shoot all the time everywhere and hit

Had enough! | EA Forums

60 Replies

Jutila22
New Hotshot
2 years ago
Mee too this is the last year i play ea nhl games. Nhl 24 broken gameplay changes were the last nail in the coffin. Ai so bad, goalies, that speedboost hitting is so unrealistic and kills the game. Game just rewards players hows just shoot all the time everywhere and hit
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@dogheels

I'm definitely not going to deny that the game has its issues. However, it doesn't appear to be broken. You say you want the game to be enjoyable regardless of skill level. What would make that better for you? There are already multiple difficulty settings. In HUT, you are going to most often get matched up with others around your skill level as well. You also have multiple difficulty levels for offline play in this mode. This may not happen so much during off peak hours where there's a smaller player pool though. So, what are your ideas to make the game more enjoyable for all skill levels?

As far as the bias between offline/online goes, are you talking about how there occasionally is an online requirement for the daily objectives? The majority of them are completed in offline modes. Not to mention all the Moments objectives. There are far more offline objectives than online. Of course we're going to reward the online players as well when there's a requirement to play a Rivals game. Thankfully, HUT Rush objectives often include XP collectibles so skipping that game and not completing the daily requirements can be made up there.

Also, we always encourage video of any issues you find. It would be great to see the offside calls being missed as they seem to be very accurate and I haven't seen other videos showing those calls not being made. I have seen times when icing doesn't get called though. Interference calls are absolutely frustrating. I hear ya there. If there were one thing I could fix immediately, that would be it. I still don't think the game is broken or unplayable and it doesn't appear that I'm alone in that thought. At least according to the amount of players the game currently has. Of course, not everyone has the same definition of fun though and it's unfortunate we didn't meet that for you. Hopefully, future releases will be more to your liking.
Stubo_NHL24
New Ace
2 years ago
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@dogheels
I'm definitely not going to deny that the game has its issues. However, it doesn't appear to be broken. You say you want the game to be enjoyable regardless of skill level. What would make that better for you? There are already multiple difficulty settings. In HUT, you are going to most often get matched up with others around your skill level as well. You also have multiple difficulty levels for offline play in this mode. This may not happen so much during off peak hours where there's a smaller player pool though. So, what are your ideas to make the game more enjoyable for all skill levels?
As far as the bias between offline/online goes, are you talking about how there occasionally is an online requirement for the daily objectives? The majority of them are completed in offline modes. Not to mention all the Moments objectives. There are far more offline objectives than online. Of course we're going to reward the online players as well when there's a requirement to play a Rivals game. Thankfully, HUT Rush objectives often include XP collectibles so skipping that game and not completing the daily requirements can be made up there.
Also, we always encourage video of any issues you find. It would be great to see the offside calls being missed as they seem to be very accurate and I haven't seen other videos showing those calls not being made. I have seen times when icing doesn't get called though. Interference calls are absolutely frustrating. I hear ya there. If there were one thing I could fix immediately, that would be it. I still don't think the game is broken or unplayable and it doesn't appear that I'm alone in that thought. At least according to the amount of players the game currently has. Of course, not everyone has the same definition of fun though and it's unfortunate we didn't meet that for you. Hopefully, future releases will be more to your liking.
Your definition of playable must be different from the vast majority of players.
I get your job is to promote the game but to deny this years game is awful doesn't help.
EA has to start listening to users or there won't be anyone buying it in the future.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
2 years ago
@Stubo_NHL24

We have been listening. You can see this in the patch notes for each update. Bigger changes will need to wait for future games.

Broken means the game is unplayable due to bugs in the game. People tend to use that word though anytime something frustrates them. Especially when it comes to not winning games they feel they should. If the game were truly unplayable, they wouldn't be able to even finish a game. When we see accounts with hundreds or thousands of games on them from people saying it's broken, it really doesn't make sense. Why would someone play a broken game that much? There's a big difference between not enjoying it and claiming it's unplayable and broken when you've spent hundreds of hours on it.

I've been pretty open about my frustration with this game. Yes, there are issues, but there's a lot more good than bad. My club is still having a lot of fun playing together and never once have we not been able to play due to the claims it's a broken game.
KlariskraysNHL
Hero
2 years ago
@Stubo_NHL24 Constant black screen of death, constant booted to dashboard, losing connection constantly, extreme lag(dependent on person) are things I can consider unplayable.

Unplayable and Glitch goal are just common things thrown around without real meaning to what they are. Scoring the same goal over and over isn't a glitch. It's just programming they figured out. Now if they find a way to score a goal from behind the net going thru the back of the net to count as a goal then that is truly a glitch goal.

The dev team for NHL has actually done a ton of work this year. They have heard the feedback both good and bad. It might not always be things you agree but they are trying to make changes to get different results they feel will better the game somehow. I mean I don't agree with the truculence buff, but they probably did it so that people might decide to use the anti hitting trait/less damage trait more. We all know people aren't going to gravitate away from the goal scoring/movement ones to take less stamina impact from hits. It's not how majority want to play. I wouldn't be shocked if NHL 25 sees even more changes to affect metas and builds.
KidShowtime1867
Hero
2 years ago
@Stubo_NHL24 wrote:

Your definition of playable must be different from the vast majority of players.
Weird. Here I am, playing NHL 24 almost every day. Works just fine. Maybe your definition of unplayable is simply a reflection of you conforming to groupthink.
@Stubo_NHL24 wrote:
I get your job is to promote the game but to deny this years game is awful doesn't help.
Their job is not to promote the game. It's to support people on these forums with their issues and pass things along to the development team.
Do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with the definitions of; playable and opinion.
You'll likely come to the realization that your opinion is that this game is unplayable. It's not a fact. Although the groupthink and hivemind will reinforce your opinion that the game is awful, it is still not a fact. The game can be played. The game can be considered fun. Why else would thousands of people continue to play it every single day?
@Stubo_NHL24 wrote:
EA has to start listening to users or there won't be anyone buying it in the future.
EA doesn't need to listen to people who parade around every corner of social media, regurgitating the same hyperbolic statements about every single iteration of this game in some vein attempt to get social media points and affirmation while simultaneously playing and buying the game every year.
They need to listen to people who actually take the time to explain their issues with the game. And by that I mean screenshots, videos, etc. Not walls of text written solely to demonstrate one's knowledge of hockey and how everyone else is inferior - especially developers and producers who've literally worked on the virtualization of the sport for 30 years.
But of course, the contrarians who lurk these forums and other platforms who target anyone who has anything positive to say about game or GOD FORBID they entice users to ACTUALLY DEVELOP SOME SKILLS rather than blame EA for everything that's wrong in their life, have likely ruined that from happening again.
Don't bother replying - I aint gonna read it. Cheers.
phomi99
Seasoned Veteran
2 years ago
@Stubo_NHL24 Its not unplayable but there are inconveniences with certain features like the speed up hitting but a lot of the time they bring their defense out of position and you got a freebie cross crease.

Hockey games are difficult to perfect but I think they are starting to focus on taking away METAs and even the playing field.
Limp_KidzKit
2 years ago
@EA_Aljo wrote:
@dogheels
I'm definitely not going to deny that the game has its issues. However, it doesn't appear to be broken. You say you want the game to be enjoyable regardless of skill level. What would make that better for you? There are already multiple difficulty settings. In HUT, you are going to most often get matched up with others around your skill level as well. You also have multiple difficulty levels for offline play in this mode. This may not happen so much during off peak hours where there's a smaller player pool though. So, what are your ideas to make the game more enjoyable for all skill levels?
I think for many users, they'd like a game that flows a lot more like hockey than the current "meta" allows for. Regardless of "skill" (I assume he means "twitch skill") a user should be able to have success in making hockey plays. Unfortunately with the state of the online/default tuning, playing this game like hockey is extremely difficult and usually unrewarding. From the lack of AI puck support, the AI's inability to fill open lanes on the rush, their lack of net-front presence, and just goalies in general not really allowing any "high danger" first shot goals outside of the programmed "glitch" moves that are designed to score with near certainty, users are left with the choice of either playing real hockey and losing a majority of games or learning how to play "NHL" (not hockey) in order to win at the expense of having any sort of "real hockey" feel to their success.
I don't think difficulty level changes this for offline either. Especially in 23 and 24, goalies are extremely good at limb reaction saves. They're robotic to a fault. As an IRL goalie, I find them to be extremely unrewarding to play against despite countless hours of slider testing and attribute testing to try and "fix" them (I do this even if it's not my "main" game in an attempt to stay informed on the current state of meta/tuning). Goalies in 22 and before were much more dynamic and lifelike when it came to limb reaction speeds and saves. Just alone in my NHL 20 games today, I've had 3-2, 5-4 (2OT), 6-2, and 4-2 scorelines using the same sliders with all teams having the same exact roster composition/attributes/ratings. I don't get that same level of dynamic scoring in 23 nor 24 because 1st goals just simply don't go in if you refuse to take "glitch" shots.
On this note, the AI had their aggression off the puck severely nerfed in NHL 21. This is well known, I've talked about it a lot on here. So from an offline perspective, difficulty doesn't really change anything other than CPU success rate in scoring and saving shots. It's quite literally the same game loop/experience. There's no more or less passing required, goals still require the same pattern to score, AI aggression still the same, so the only real "dynamic" experience available is through online play due to the human element and now we're back to the same challenges described in paragraph one of my response.
And of course, the game isn't "broken" nor "unplayable" and there isn't tons of "glitch" goals so I wish people would stop using hyperbolic words because it muddies these discussions the same way video evidence tends to to around here, but at the same time "glitch goal" has been used since NHL 07's "curve shot" at the latest, so I think by now anyone who has been invested in this community long enough should try to look past the word "glitch" and replace it with "exploit" or " for sure" goal and continue the discussion so we don't chase away obviously frustrated players. Feedback is always tough to sift through though, I get it.
Stubo_NHL24
New Ace
2 years ago
Appreciate the reply @EA_Aljo
It's nothing personal, I have no issue with yourself. You seem a decent guy thats doing a thankless job.
If you remember back to the first conversation we had, I couldn't speak highly enough of the game and how much I've enjoyed it for decades. I have nothing against EA either. Probably 90% of the games I've played over the years have been made by EA. FIFA, PGA, Battlefield and many more. I know you guys can make really good games.
I still stand by everything I've said about 24. I have played well over a 1000 games so far this year and I feel like I'm not just playing against someone online, I feel like I'm battling against my own AI. No matter what formation or tactics I use the game is just constant rushes/breakaways. I have tried to explain this before. The defenseman doesn't defend the zone. If a fwd is attacking at full speed the defenseman should recognise that and not take the shortest route to the fwd. Just about everytime in that scenario the fwd passes the defenseman will ease. Its totally impossible for the user to do anything to stop it because as soon as you switch to the closest defenceman he skates in the wrong direction for that split second before you get control.
I don't understand how you can have a game thats been so good for decades (minus a couple), which is impressive in itself, to get so bad. You'd think it would improve with technology?
As for the YouTube fella above, its sleeveless, right? The guy that gets interviews with EA devs. Not really that surprising you defend the game at every turn on here. I'd happily defend many of the previous versions of this game but I stand by opinion of 24.
dogheels
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
Regarding the use of the word broken. When something is not working up to the standard that it should. Something is wrong within. And the only way to remedy that problem is to FIX it. Hence the word broken. Perhaps if I substitute the word unacceptable outcome, it might be less an offensive word regarding the game. As you have agreed. Missed icing calls. Missed offsides. Goalie infractions called back when the individual player with the puck is trying to finish a goal attempt. Players laying on the ice, flopping like a fish, and no whistle blown even after you take possession of the puck. An the interference calls. 80%+ generated by the AI. As are offside when you cross the blueline with puck possession. Why I have brought this contention up is. It has been a constant for the past several issues of this game. And it's seems even though videos and othe complaints have been voiced by other community members. Nothing changes. As for the bias. Online/offline. My only beef with that is in SB. Where EA almost every second week, injects a Rivals objective in order to complete the Daily or weekly objectives. This isolates the offline community from obtaining the over all objective. I understand that this comment can and probably is seen as a personal failure on my part. However. It's the obvious everyday, every game issues that are at issue here. Let's just call this complaint, as a call to EA, to address, these somewhat minor problems, so the game can run without community complaint.