Community ManagerHey there, @RicochetII
Thanks for all the feedback. I just want to comment on a few things.
@RicochetII wrote:
1. Presentation: NHL uniforms, NHL equipment, NHL players, NHL arenas, etc.
In game (primarily in CHEL), those aspects are often completely ignored. Purposefully.
- Uniforms are discarded in favor of everything from hoodies to pajamas (or worse)
- Equipment gets the same treatment ignoring helmets/visors and including gloves, skates, and sticks with often silly designs
- Rinks that are a step below amateur in outdoor venues with none of the quality or atmosphere of an NHL arena
This isn't counting the alternate game modes which take some of these aspects even further.
WoC is a fantasy league. While NHL equipment is available, it's not required as this is the EASHL and not the NHL. The outdoor arena is meant to be a more casual environment where hoodies and jeans are more acceptable. Ones and Threes Eliminator are pure fantasy so you can have the casual, vanity gear. Again, these aren't NHL events.
2. Game Modes: NHL hockey is at it's core 6v6 on the ice, 5 skaters and 1 goaltender, with specific rules designed for the sport.
EA has introduced ones and threes "arcade" modes as well as the 3v3 watered-down version of NHL OT with its own set of rules.
These are secondary (or even inconsequential) to what is expected from an NHL series, which is 6v6 on-ice play with NHL rules, but they are given attention and dilute the userbase for what "should" be the primary focus. A robust and accurate representation of 6v6 NHL gameplay.
This is fair that it dilutes the userbase as people are in those modes because they are more fun for them. However, the hardcore players of these modes most likely aren't interested in 6v6 play with authentic rules. So, chances are good removing them wouldn't make as big an impact as it seems.
@RicochetII wrote:
3. Gameplay: NHL rules, physics, and player ability should be accurately represented.
The rules are more or less as expected in 6v6 (ignoring other game modes because the rules are often just made up or non-existent). There's room for improvement in the application of those rules (rather than just random chance when x and y occur). Perhaps we are not yet at a point technically where rules can be applied through an analysis of the physical interactions alone.
The physics themselves, as applied in game, create too many unrealistic situations. Solid objects passing through each other and pucks magnetized or otherwise influenced to remain in play are among the most egregious. Perhaps there are technical limitations involved here as well, but at the very least stick blades and pucks should be solid and have realistic interactions. "Pong" achieved that in 1972. There's no reason we can't have it in 2023.
With the stick and puck interactions resolved, other elements related to player abilities should be able to be resolved incrementally.
- Hitting interactions have been ramped up to market the game, but NHL players are more elusive and resilient than EA gives them credit for. They don't get rag dolled on legal body checks frequently and they don't stay down for more than a few seconds unless injured.
- Lacrosses and Hipchecks have been brought up continuously already and EA took some action, but it simply doesn't go far enough. You might see a hipcheck once a game (if that) and it's done with momentum against speed up the boards. Hitting is a skill and hip checks involve the most skill to pull off while requiring certain conditions to be present. The Lacrosse move has been successful maybe a handful of times and attempted maybe a few times a year. It also takes skill and a certain set of conditions, chief among those is an unaware goaltender and AI goaltenders should not be unaware unless those conditions are met. Having both of these as "one-touch" buttons completely ignores the skill aspect. They don't even require accurate setup or positioning.
- Generally speaking, every "flashy" but mostly realistic thing implemented in the game happens with exaggerated impact and/or frequency. While mundane things that very frequently happen in real life occur with less frequency. A player catching/intercepting a slapshot is rare (especially the catching part) and never as clean as the game represents. The puck deflecting over the glass on a shot happens a lot, but it slows down the game with more faceoffs, so it rarely happens.
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This is a video game. Clipping is going to happen. As it does in most other games. Since we don't have 1:1 fidelity with the stick, exceptions need to be made. For example, sticks are allowed to pass through players and objects, but they can't affect the puck. This is to reduce the chances of player limbs bending in ways that would break them. We've seen this happen occasionally with 24 and it has not been well received. So, it kind of goes to show that added realism isn't always a popular feature. When it comes pong, you're talking about a single block interacting with a single "ball". 2 singular objects reacting. They aren't dealing with limbs being attached while also holding a stick while also potentially interacting with other objects of the same nature. Hockey is infinitely more complex than Pong.
Again, this is a video game. Hits might be over the top at times. There are also times they are very realistic. Regardless, the point of the game is to have fun. Yes, there are some purists that want the game to be a 1:1 recreation of the real sport, but from what I've seen, the more real the game gets, the less it's liked. There need to be player attributes for example that add assistance to shooting, passing, hitting, etc. When we made a change to this a few years back, it made the community pretty upset because it became harder to score and accurately pass. We also frequently get comments saying NHL 14 played better. Which is far more of an arcade style game than NHL 24 as the physics are more realistic than they were 10 years ago yet some that claim they want a full sim game would rather have one that was less sim than what we have now.
I'm in agreement with hipchecks and Lacrosse moves. I'd rather those return to the way they were. Thankfully, the Lacrosse goal is pretty uncommon and the move is easy to defend to begin with.
EA hasn't made it clear, at least to me, what exactly this game is supposed to be and who it is supposed to be for. Perhaps they don't even know themselves.
I'd appreciate it if they would present a clear direction, at least for next year if they can't now. I'm no longer going to dive into the current product blindly.
As mentioned, this game isn't meant to be a full sim, recreation of NHL hockey. It's meant to have aspects of that along with an atmosphere that make it fun. I don't think we'll ever have a game that gives you that feeling of stepping on the ice and putting professional hockey skills to the test. What we want is a fun game for friends as well as solo players that the truly skilled can become masters of. Whether that's EASHL, Online Vs/HUT or offline modes. We have a very diverse playerbase so not everyone wants a full sim experience.
Thanks again for the feedback. It's absolutely appreciated.
@EA_Aljo wrote:Hey there, @RicochetII
Again, this is a video game. Hits might be over the top at times. There are also times they are very realistic. Regardless, the point of the game is to have fun. Yes, there are some purists that want the game to be a 1:1 recreation of the real sport, but from what I've seen, the more real the game gets, the less it's liked. There need to be player attributes for example that add assistance to shooting, passing, hitting, etc. When we made a change to this a few years back, it made the community pretty upset because it became harder to score and accurately pass. We also frequently get comments saying NHL 14 played better. Which is far more of an arcade style game than NHL 24 as the physics are more realistic than they were 10 years ago yet some that claim they want a full sim game would rather have one that was less sim than what we have now.
I'm in agreement with hipchecks and Lacrosse moves. I'd rather those return to the way they were. Thankfully, the Lacrosse goal is pretty uncommon and the move is easy to defend to begin with.
@EA_Aljo I think you are missing the point when we say NHL 14 played better. Yes, the physics are more realistic now, but the tuning and thus gameplay is far less realistic. Back in the NHL 14 days, both offense and defense had to be played fairly realistically to be successful. On offense you had to move the puck around to find the good shooting spots to be successful. On defense, solid positioning, taking away the passing and shooting lanes was rewarded. Nowadays, you have to play the "meta" to be successful, and it hardly resembles hockey. The game speed is way, way too high. Offense is way overpowered compared to defense. Shot accuracy and power are far too high, and forwards who lose the puck instantly regain control nine times out of ten. On defense, you're penalized far too highly for an ever so slightly mistimed poke (huge loss of speed) or ever so slightly misaimed hit (artificially pulled way out of position), and playing well positionally is penalized by the Pressure Meter and the lack of interceptions. It's become all cross-creases and "glitch goals"... it wasn't that way in NHL 14 days.
Edit: Forgot to mention: In NHL 23, the HUT Rush "Sim mode" that was introduced later in the year fixed many of the issues I describe. The game played far more realistically and most people loved it. Why didn't that become the normal tuning this year? The game would be far better and more "sim" if it had.
Unfortunately the game has been getting more and more arcade style every year. That’s what kids want which equates to higher revenues.
Also sad how all the woke “things” keep getting added into the game each year.
Posting this here for consolidation.
@EA_Aljo I’ve seen you consolidate threads sometimes which is really nice. It reduces clutter in the forum and helps to draw attention to how many people have the same issues. Is it possible for you and your team of moderators to do this more often?
I think a well organized and consolidated forum would essentially evolve itself into an open ended survey. I know you guys have different pages in the forum, but most people post in the “General Discussion” page because they know that’s where the eyes are.
What if you guys had a tagging system or a filter system?
Also, how nice would it be for you and your team and the community if you used AI to generate concise synopsis of a topic/discussion that would stay pinned at the top of the discussion. It’s something I’ve seen Amazon do with reviews. Take a look at this article:
”@EA_Aljo I think you are missing the point when we say NHL 14 played better. Yes, the physics are more realistic now, but the tuning and thus gameplay is far less realistic. Back in the NHL 14 days, both offense and defense had to be played fairly realistically to be successful. On offense you had to move the puck around to find the good shooting spots to be successful. On defense, solid positioning, taking away the passing and shooting lanes was rewarded. Nowadays, you have to play the "meta" to be successful, and it hardly resembles hockey”
Well said 👌🏻I agree 100%
EA have weird visio and feels like they are just so lost and they dont even want to find back on track.
I hope that some other company start developing a NHL game in the future. Maybe EA will start to focus more on this game if there is some kind of competition.
Community Manager
@MikeyAU630 wrote:
@EA_Aljo wrote:
Hey there, @RicochetII
Again, this is a video game. Hits might be over the top at times. There are also times they are very realistic. Regardless, the point of the game is to have fun. Yes, there are some purists that want the game to be a 1:1 recreation of the real sport, but from what I've seen, the more real the game gets, the less it's liked. There need to be player attributes for example that add assistance to shooting, passing, hitting, etc. When we made a change to this a few years back, it made the community pretty upset because it became harder to score and accurately pass. We also frequently get comments saying NHL 14 played better. Which is far more of an arcade style game than NHL 24 as the physics are more realistic than they were 10 years ago yet some that claim they want a full sim game would rather have one that was less sim than what we have now.
I'm in agreement with hipchecks and Lacrosse moves. I'd rather those return to the way they were. Thankfully, the Lacrosse goal is pretty uncommon and the move is easy to defend to begin with.
@EA_Aljo I think you are missing the point when we say NHL 14 played better. Yes, the physics are more realistic now, but the tuning and thus gameplay is far less realistic. Back in the NHL 14 days, both offense and defense had to be played fairly realistically to be successful. On offense you had to move the puck around to find the good shooting spots to be successful. On defense, solid positioning, taking away the passing and shooting lanes was rewarded. Nowadays, you have to play the "meta" to be successful, and it hardly resembles hockey. The game speed is way, way too high. Offense is way overpowered compared to defense. Shot accuracy and power are far too high, and forwards who lose the puck instantly regain control nine times out of ten. On defense, you're penalized far too highly for an ever so slightly mistimed poke (huge loss of speed) or ever so slightly misaimed hit (artificially pulled way out of position), and playing well positionally is penalized by the Pressure Meter and the lack of interceptions. It's become all cross-creases and "glitch goals"... it wasn't that way in NHL 14 days.
Edit: Forgot to mention: In NHL 23, the HUT Rush "Sim mode" that was introduced later in the year fixed many of the issues I describe. The game played far more realistically and most people loved it. Why didn't that become the normal tuning this year? The game would be far better and more "sim" if it had.
I also really enjoyed the sim mode in HUT. It would have been nice to see that become the regular tuning. It also made a lot of people unhappy though. So, that's the thing, we have a very diverse audience of players. While there are many of us that want a more realistic game, that's not going to make everyone happy.
I know the team is aware of the feedback you're providing. Changes could be made in the future. The lack of interceptions has been a big one for sure. Pokes going back to the carrier has been mentioned many times as well. I'm on the fence with that one though. Normally, when that happens, it's because the carrier has better positioning and is traveling in the direction of the puck. The defender didn't make good enough contact to send the puck out of reach. Poke checking is my primary for of defense. I use the defensive skill stick a lot as well because I have a lot of success with sweeping the puck away. I'm not saying there are no issues though either. It would be good to make pokes work more consistently. I also hate the slow down from poking. That's very frustrating.
If I recall right, the biggest complaint about 14 was cross-crease goals. That was the go to way to score and you spent all game defending it. Passes still got through, but I really can't remember if it was any better/worse than we have now. It's been almost 10 years since I played that game, but I know cross-crease goals were extremely prevalent then.
Thanks for the continued, constructive feedback. It's most definitely appreciated.
I found that this year they listen to us and they move things a lot more compare of last year, And they don't have scare to make them move, I was the guy who were complaining about ea a lot.. and this year i found the ea team are a lot more closer to their community! A lot of work to do again into the game but i think we are on the good way.
