Goalie fatigue needs to go in NHL 25
The fatigue system was a good idea, but very poorly implemented. Puck retrievals during fatigue as well as clearing the zone continue to be absolutely atrocious. An NHL player can lob a puck from the...
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EA_Aljo
Community Manager
Community ManagerIt's really not preferring offense over defense. Offense is more attractive to most people because they prefer scoring goals to shutting them down. Offense also has the flashier moves just by nature of the position. Defense can be a very challenging position to play well. It's something a lot of people just don't focus on. I've played many opponents with a strong offensive game, but are very much lacking on defense. The tools are there to be a good defender. A lot of people just don't master them.
The flip dump is not a good example of us preferring offense over defense. Flipping the puck out isn't the only way to get it out of your zone. I'm not happy about it either, but I get why it needs to be there so the pressure system actually means something. Otherwise, why have it if you can escape that pressure so easily?
The older, non-weak, flip dump came with the risk of icing or flipping it over the boards for a delay of game penalty. It wasn't necessarily easy to avoid both when you were under pressure from forecheckers. And as thebrazenhead75 said, it's a commonly used hockey play. I still don't understand the perceived need to nerf it. As you say, there are other ways of clearing the puck from your zone... why weren't they nerfed too if you want it to be super difficult to break pressure?
I mean back in October I had this idea that I felt was a great compromise to their system. Probably also super hard to program in also I would assume.
This is actually much better than what is currently allowed in the game and should've been implemented in NHL 24
I see where you're coming from. It does seem like nerfing the flip dump might have been an overreach, especially considering the natural risks like icing or a delay of game penalty. If the goal was to make it harder to clear the puck, it would be interesting to know why this specific play was targeted and not others. Maybe the devs were trying to balance the game in a way we're not seeing yet?
As I recall, the reason given for the high flip nerf was literally that it made the pressure system pointless. At the time, I pointed out that if the system was so easily defeated by such a rudimentary play, then maybe the system was poorly designed.
But the high flip doesn't make the pressure system pointless. As I pointed out, there was risk to the high flip. And frankly, if the offense wants to maintain pressure, they should maintain puck possession.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post my biggest pet-peeve about the weak puck flip. The AI wasn't retrained on how to clear the puck on the penalty kill. They still try to use the puck flip whenever they get possession on the PK and fail to clear it most times. Best case they get it out to center ice... they can never, ever clear it all the way down the ice without carrying down themselves. It also messes up their ability to execute dump-and-chase... they expect the old, more powerful dump in, but only get a weak flip part of the way to where they want the puck to go.
A big part of why the AI is so horrendous these days is because every year game mechanics are added/changed/removed, but the AI is rarely updated to understand the changes. The AI still only partially understands 3-on-3 overtime play, only partially know how to run the 1-3-1 PP, they only use a fraction of the dekes available to players, they rarely (if ever) use DSS, etc, and are generally dumbfounded when a human player uses those mechanics that they aren't aware of.
Sorry for the rant.
I see what you're saying about the reasoning behind nerfing the high flip to preserve the pressure system. However, I think it’s worth considering that if a basic play like the high flip could render the pressure system ineffective, it might indicate that the system itself needs a redesign. It’s not just about making things harder but also ensuring the game mechanics are balanced and realistic.
I agree with this! Instead of nerfing it like they did you maintain their precious pressure system, they should have left in room for error on the delay of game clears. It made you think of how to clear, instead of just nerfing the strength of the clear. It's going to be way harder to clear pucks now since your fatigue will drain x2 and now the offensive team will regain their fatigue x2. I bet EA didn't even think to give x2 fatigue back to both the players and the goalie on successful clears of the zone and pressure. Of course not.
Instead of nerfing the clearing mechanics, it would have been better if they had maintained the pressure system but allowed for some margin of error on delays of game clears. This would have encouraged strategic thinking on how to clear the puck effectively. It’s frustrating that now, with the increased fatigue drain and the offensive team regaining fatigue faster, it seems like the balance is off. It would have made more sense to adjust fatigue more fairly for both teams and the goalie after successful clears, rather than just making it harder to clear the zone. Hopefully, EA takes these concerns into account for future updates.
