Scoring
Backhand, forehand, backhand, goal. I feel trying to make good plays and set up 1T shots, or anything else just seems far less effective than just backhanding for every goal.. it's sad that it can ev...
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Anyone that plays this game can easily notice way LESS people playing G. Drop ins are one example. It takes me longer now to find games because I’m backing out of lobbies that don’t have a human goalie. More CLUBS are running games without a goalie. Anyone that plays this game daily during peak hours will notice and agree.
That doesn't make sense. Lots of people play all modes in this game and aren't tracking the popularity of goalie. You may pay particularly close attention, but again - you are only playing drop-ins. Playing drop-ins is not something elite, league-level goalies are doing.
How would you know how many clubs are running goalies compared to those without if you're not steeped in club games multiple days a week?
Once again with the video clips? Waste of my time when it’s so obvious to anyone that plays the game consistently who will see all the goals caused by these unnecessary animations.
Providing a simple video clip of what you deem an "unnecessary animation" would give the developers the exact insight they'd need in order to fix the issue you have. Why keep refusing to do that?
That’s the #1 reason people are complaining about in game and on social media platforms.
The #1 reason why people complain on social media is because they get 'likes', 'retweets' and generally positive affirmations from like-minded, social media addicted users who have disdain for the game. Conflating social media interactions with general consensus is a recipe for being incredibly misinformed. Not just in the context of video games, but as a whole; social media incentivises the cesspool of human emotions. Never use it as a metric for anything.
Plus, algorithms keep you locked in echo-chambers. So, if you spend a lot of time discussing the game and how bad it is - the social media gods will ensure you're locked in an environment where that opinion is praised. They want you to keep coming back
Doese EA need video clips (proof) of sticks going through players, the boards etc? No. Why? Because it’s so obvious to anyone that has been playing the game for years and video clips aren’t needed.
Providing clips is not just for the development team. Often times, clips can showcase human error which can then be resolved; resulting in a player getting better outcomes in their games because they provided a clip where they were making a mistake.
In the context of sticks through players, boards and subsequent interactions with the puck - the clips posted on the old forums and the developer interaction and explanations led a lot of us to get a much better understanding of the mechanics at play and the logic being used to present those mechanics in a nuanced and balanced way. I use to LOVE those developer interactions.. but I digress...
Anyone doesn’t need to know anything about goalie controls to know how idiotic removing one tool while duplicating another is. I don’t know enough about bathroom renovations but I know how completely IDIOTIC it would be to remove a toilet paper holder with another soap dish. If I hired someone to renovate my bathroom and they did that then I would immediately fire them. The only reason I can think of why nobody at EA has responded to this is because they don’t want to admit to such an idiotic mistake.
I don't use the paddle-down mechanic but that likely says more about my goalie skill than anything. That said, are you sure there are two buttons in the goalie controls that do the same desperation save? My understanding is one would be for stacked pad save, the other for blocker/glove desperation save, but I could be wrong.
In any case, regardless of the duplication of the desperation save mechanic and the omission of paddle down - there are a lot of goalies (yourself included) that are having a lot of success playing goalie in NHL 25. As someone who plays on a club who strictly uses a human goalie, we have not noticed at all a decline in human goalies. Looking at leaderboards, there are a lot of very skilled tendies out there.
Keep defending EA and its many glaring mistakes and all the other problems with this game. The majority of the people that play this game know the truth.
I am not "defending" EA because that implies you are attacking them, which I'm sure you're not meaning to do.
I would absolutely love to see some examples of the "unnecessary animations". It would really go such a long way in helping identify the issues. I think you'd love to contribute to the betterment of the game, no?
I NEVER said I was playing “amazing”. Don’t use words that I didn’t use!
My apologies for using the term 'amazing'. You're right, you did not use that exact terminology but in my defence, an accurate summarization of your description of yourself goaltending would include the word amazing, but again.. not a direct quote. My bad.
Actually I play both drops and clubs as I’ve stated before. I play with A LOT of different players. Some of the best, elites, above average and more. I’ve played with elite league goalies (when I play D) too and actually there are a lot of Elite league goalies that do play drops. How do I know this? Because I’ve played with them and have conversations with them in game.
Again, I’ll ask. Can you honest say you’ve never seen your club human goalie let up a goal that wasn’t their fault and wasn’t the result of an unnecessary animation?
It is so obvious there has been a decline in the amount of human goalies this year and that’s including clubs. If there was a way to check the leader boards of total club games played as a human goalie last year at approximately this time compared to this year, I’d bet last year would be a lot more.
In regards to “paddle down”. It’s been removed completely starting with last years game. It’s impossible to not notice it missing. There are only so many buttons on a controller. It’s obviously not on the goalie controls screen. So where the F did it go and why? Actually I just checked the goalie controls screen. Desperation Dives (hold) is mapped to R1 AND Square. Pad stack is O. So wtf? Why is DD’s mapped to two buttons?
I have a couple of clips of NHL goalies using it to help prevent 5 hole goals saved on my FB account. I’ll see if I can post them here without it being linked to my actual FB account for personal reasons.
Or, send me a temporary friends request and play a couple of drop ins and/or clubs with me. Then you can see for yourself that at least one of those animation goals (with no fault of mine) will happen within a game or few. They’re just so inconsistent and that’s the problem.
Actually I’m about to hop on for tonight so I’ll record a couple of games and then post them back here when I have time. Then you can dissect them all you want but I already know what you’ll probably say.
EA_AljoCommunity Manager
Again, I’ll ask. Can you honest say you’ve never seen your club human goalie let up a goal that wasn’t their fault and wasn’t the result of an unnecessary animation?
Of course. I've said this many times, the game isn't perfect. Goalies are probably the hardest position to make 100% accurate. They're limited by the animations available to them. Obviously, a real goalie isn't doesn't have a such a limited set of moves. As with the game in general, it continues to expand over time as we adapt to new technology.
In regards to “paddle down”. It’s been removed completely starting with last years game. It’s impossible to not notice it missing. There are only so many buttons on a controller. It’s obviously not on the goalie controls screen. So where the F did it go and why? Actually I just checked the goalie controls screen. Desperation Dives (hold) is mapped to R1 AND Square. Pad stack is O. So wtf? Why is DD’s mapped to two buttons?
It was intentional this was removed. Unfortunately, I don't have any other details. While there have been a few requests for it since it was removed, there hasn't been a lot of talk about it. I'll pass on the feedback for you.
Or, send me a temporary friends request and play a couple of drop ins and/or clubs with me. Then you can see for yourself that at least one of those animation goals (with no fault of mine) will happen within a game or few. They’re just so inconsistent and that’s the problem.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd run some games with you. Just let me know.
I don't think anyone is saying goalies in our game never make mistakes. I've had many frustrating moments where they let in something super weak or flop around unnecessarily. While there are times games are won and lost because of this, in general, in my experience, the majority of games are being won by the deserving team. That doesn't mean they had more ToA and shots. Any shot on net has the potential to score. You see this in the real world as well. Something people don't mention here is that the majority of goals are scored on good shots. However, the ones against us are typically the ones we remember the most.I’d like to know what EA’s intentions were/are for removing it. It was a commonly useful tool that I particularly used to prevent a lot of wraparounds and to combat the “floating” pads issue. I highly doubt it was removed because it caused another problem because it didn’t in years past. Or was it “intentional” like how they nerfed the faceoff puck dump/flip up the boards to benefit their new pressure system?
EA needs to be more transparent with certain changes to the game to lessen the confusion and frustration a lot of users have.
The defense is always at the mercy of the offense.
I think this is primarily due to the the nature of the sport combined with way the average player plays defence. Many people chase and are impatient. They throw a lot of inputs at their defender and then wonder why players always seem to have a step on them. Then they point to the X-factors, abilities, etc and claim offense is given far more of an advantage. But then we get into hockey fundamentals.
Possession of the puck gives that team control of the game's pace and the opportunity to create scoring chances. The team with the puck can dictate play, force the defending team to react, and has the ability to directly score goals. The defending team will always be in a reactionary position but those with experience and skill will be reading the plays and require less reaction time to offensive plays.
although I have found this game does a much better job at allowing defensive players to pick off passes and I feel more involved on defense, poke checking is mostly in a good place, i think net battling feels a bit clunky at times)
100% agree. The fluidity of DSS and the consistency of intercepting pucks when your blade is in the passing lane (and there's enough reaction time) has been a massive improvement defensively. I'd like to see the poke check mechanic reworked so that you can enter DSS without a slowdown of the initial puck animation. Right now you have to do this by holding Right-Stick left or right before initializing DSS which is okay, but I'd like to see the 'slowdown' on the poke check activated once poke check is released rather than as soon as it's pressed. This would allow players to more naturally initialize DSS without a speed penalty.
I truly believe that the reason you may see less and less human goalies is because of how much blame a goalie takes on and no matter what you try to say, its always going to be 5v1.
If you're on a good team, they'll never blame the goalie. Blaming the goalie is natural in drop-ins because in that mode - everyone thinks they're the best and they never make any mistakes (or 'the game' screwed them). So naturally, those drop-in types will blame the poor goalie. Personally, our goalie is amazing. In the rare moment he makes a mistake, he owns and it works to adjust. There are moments where the controls or an animation sequence tends to let him down, but making adjustments to adhere to what the game expects of you is part of the skill involved in this game, and he nails it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the passing speed tops out, I also think the pass seems to cancel out if held too long. That being said, I personally dislike the icon passing. In the real NHL passes are missed a lot, I thought things seemed better when players were forced to aim their passes (that's a different argument though) I just think for icon vs manual passes there should be a tradeoff. (No chance of saucer with icon)
No, the pass will not cancel if held too long. Icon passing has a risk reward to it. Developing the habit of knowing your forwards are X, Y & (if the puck is controlled by D) and the defense are A & B (if puck controlled by a forward) is a skill that will help improve passing plays. Although I understand the argument they can be 'too' accurate, this is the reward for being well-versed in a gameplay feature designed to improve passing.
I posted this in another thread yesterday:
The other cool thing is that when you hold RT after an Icon pass, the icon for the player you just passed to will be the same icon for the passer. This means on a 2-on-1 situation, you utilize the same icon for a quick back and forth: (notice how the Y icon quickly changes to the B icon once we start the back and forth:
The above 'can' be accomplished with manual passing, but sometimes the reception animation of manual passes can throw off the alignment and development of a 2-on-1. Icon passing ensures a pass is in-stride and on the tape of the receiver. That's a nice reward for developing the ability to utilize it.
I think humans could use a boost whether in stats or abilities to close the gap with cpu goalies. There was a time I felt the answer was to make cpu goalies worse to incentivize more humans.. I think the real move is to find more ways to improve humans. I think giving them a bit more attribute points or another ability would be cool.
I agree. I'd like to see more forgiveness given to the human goalies to close the cap with CPU goalies. But then you risk stagnating the mode for more advanced goalies who like the requirements to get the perfect angles, cut off chances, etc. It's tough to balance but for the most part I think it's in an okay place right now.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this game is SO much better with human goalies. Let's do everything we can to incentivize people to play that position and for clubs to actually seek them out.
100%%%%
I highly doubt it was removed because it caused another problem because it didn’t in years past.
Just because the animation didn't cause a problem in previous years doesn't mean it wouldn't cause a problem now. There's a lot of under-the-hood logic being executed in any given moment. Sometimes, EA can introduce new logic that may not jive with animations already in the database. If an animation causes an issue with goalie logic, they'll just disable it until the animation can be re-tooled so as not to cause a crash, bug or glitch.
If it causes a problem with a new “logic” or whatever you want to call it then maybe they shouldn’t implement the new logic. I can’t think of anything new in the game and playing goalie in particular that would negatively be affected by the “paddle down” tool enough to take priority over it to remove it.
There are tons of controls in the game that use a combination of two buttons/stick moves that haven’t affected anything that I can think of. YET, a simple R2 (hold to butterfly) plus X (to paddle down) causes some big enough problem to remove it completely?!?!
What problem could it possibly cause?
We don’t even have proof that it caused a problem as EA_Aljo has ONLY stated it was “intentional”. EA’s “intention” is unknown and that’s why I’m asking. I just want a straight answer and explanation of their “intention” from EA and/or passed along to EA_Aljo. This is not an unreasonable request. EA devs knows why they removed it. It should be a quick and simple explanation unless they’re hiding their “intentions” for whatever reasons. No need to ask why would EA hide their “intentions” either because the answer to that is easy. If their “intentions” were because it caused a problem then a simple response stating that and that they’re trying to fix it and put “paddle down” back in the game that would suffice.
- EA_Aljo
I am trying to get more details on this. I'll respond here when I have them.
If it causes a problem with a new “logic” or whatever you want to call it then maybe they shouldn’t implement the new logic. I can’t think of anything new in the game and playing goalie in particular that would negatively be affected by the “paddle down” tool enough to take priority over it to remove it.
Of course you don't can't think of anything that would affect goalie if you're not a developer or software engineer steeped in this particular game engine.
There are tons of controls in the game that use a combination of two buttons/stick moves that haven’t affected anything that I can think of. YET, a simple R2 (hold to butterfly) plus X (to paddle down) causes some big enough problem to remove it completely?!?!
First of all - I'm not saying definitively that underlying logic changes are the reason paddle down was removed. It's just speculation based on previous experience of how changes under-the-hood (to the actual CODE) can cause unforeseen issues. If you don't have experience of any kind in software development, that can be a foreign concept, but I assure you it happens all the time.
We don’t even have proof that it caused a problem as EA_Aljo has ONLY stated it was “intentional”. EA’s “intention” is unknown and that’s why I’m asking. I just want a straight answer and explanation of their “intention” from EA and/or passed along to EA_Aljo. This is not an unreasonable request. EA devs knows why they removed it. It should be a quick and simple explanation unless they’re hiding their “intentions” for whatever reasons. No need to ask why would EA hide their “intentions” either because the answer to that is easy. If their “intentions” were because it caused a problem then a simple response stating that and that they’re trying to fix it and put “paddle down” back in the game that would suffice.
Again, it could be any number of things. The most common issue is unforeseen issues after implementing new logic and I'm only positing that as one possible reason. Someone who actually works on the game could probably shed some light on that, but chances are - focus has shifted to NHL 26 by now.
For example, when a goalie would go into paddle down position, their hitbox (the invisible shape that detects collisions) might have interacted oddly with changes to the physics model. This could have created situations where pucks would unrealistically pass through parts of the goalie's body, or conversely, where the goalie could make impossible saves by covering too much of the net in ways that didn't match their visual animation.
Another possibility is that the animation system was updated to be more fluid and realistic, but the paddle down position created technical challenges. The transition animations into and out of the paddle down stance might have caused clipping issues (where parts of the model intersect unnaturally) or created jerky, unrealistic movements that broke immersion.
Rather than spend significant development resources fixing these edge cases with the paddle down control, the developers may have decided to remove it entirely to maintain the overall integrity of the new game engine.
Thank you EA_Aljo.
A response to this particular issue would be much appreciated.
How did I know your response would be as such. You always find an excuse or reason to defend something in this game.
I can tell you I have a problem with my water heater and I can’t get any hot water. Your response would be to “adapt” and just use cold water. Or something like your water heater is causing issues with something else so we just removed your water heater. That doesn’t solve anything nor does it provide a correct answer.
I remember a year or two back when some people were questioning why EA nerfed the puck dump/flip out of the D zone. You just came up with excuse after excuse defending it and kept saying we should “adapt” and find other ways to clear the zone. Of course we can clear the zone in other ways but that’s not a reason to remove an ability that is commonly used. EA finally answered and said their “intention” was they nerfed that ability to make/assist the new pressure zone system more. Whether that was the correct decision or not for us players is debatable but at least we got an answer. That’s all I want in regards to “paddle down” and if they’re going to put it back in for 26.
It hasn’t been in NHL 24 and 25 now. Can it be really that much of a problem and unfixable in two years of development cycles being in the 3rd now? I highly doubt it. Until I receive a response from EA via EA_Aljo I’ll keep thinking it was removed to cater to making the goalies less effective (like how the game caters to offence over defence) OR EA is just to embarrassed to admit they make such a stupid mistake. Or maybe it did cause a problem but at least they’re working on it.
EA is just like a a lot of other companies though. They’ll do whatever they want without explanations to cater to their agenda rather than their consumers. They’ve done that countless times in the past and they’re not going to stop now.
I just want this ability back in the game as it should be. It was a very useful ability that helped me prevent enough goals to justify wanting and needing it. Every few games or so there is a goal that I could've prevented it with this ability that no other ability could and/or be as effective in doing so. Even just one goal against every few games is enough to want and need this ability. You’ll probably respond with something like “well, its only one goal” without thinking that it could be that one goal that affects the outcome of the game especially if its a winning goal.
How did I know your response would be as such.
How did you know my response would be comprehensive and provide some possible reasoning for the change? Because that's how I roll.
I remember a year or two back when some people were questioning why EA nerfed the puck dump/flip out of the D zone. You just came up with excuse after excuse defending it and kept saying we should “adapt” and find other ways to clear the zone.
Completely inaccurate. In that thread, people were literally telling me and other developers that dumping the puck high and out of the zone was "broken". I came into that thread and simply said, 'It works if you hold it longer' and the EA devs chimed in and said that's true because they didn't want an easy flip dump to negate the new pressure system.
I proved it worked by providing actual video of me executing the mechanic flawlessly in a number of different scenarios.
That’s all I want in regards to “paddle down” and if they’re going to put it back in for 26.
Not that EA is required to give you an answer to that, but I believe Aljo has already stated they're looking into it.
I just want this ability back in the game as it should be.
I provided an insanely comprehensive answer to the possibilities surrounding its removal. Maybe if it came from a different username it would land better.
I just don't even get that EA is paying people like also and kidshowtime year after year to come here and gaslight people and pretend like the game is actually really great
I don't get paid anything.
Rampant glitching, for example L2ing and shortside cheese (cut the 2nd clip a bit short but goal, obviously):
https://youtu.be/VxMHrDAFYCk?si=bPKgwlYrksvSst5a
https://youtu.be/5Mv2ykt1ezY?si=9_MXzBH97t64AZG8#1. You engage DSS which is great, but the puck carrier baits you into skating away from disrupting his shot:
These goals happen in real life:
#2. When this clip starts, you're already a step behind which indicates the opponent had an easy time going through the neutral zone
https://youtu.be/GgdSbmZqmDA?si=k1Z19afCKTyjqfIJ
https://youtu.be/y7_MDeiuniA?si=vFxfHV5NAoUINbUa
https://youtu.be/1fHQ5HdiMgw?si=7aOc2uNlMMTmigaY
https://youtu.be/5kTblnOTmWU?si=sqFGGU5ZjP0MaG3CI'm with you on these. The line change issue is incredibly frustrating.
https://youtu.be/Jpz4w4qkiUI?si=XLIZ3serdcF7YitF
https://youtu.be/w9EgXDTCOc8?si=JPnTEZfCWCqW-0gxClip #1 - an inaccurate pass. What's your online pass-asisst at? If it's high, it can contribute to instances like this where it thinks you want to pass to the far player rather than the closer one.
Clip # 2 - you threw a blind pass behind you in between your legs and right to the slot. Again, because of the innacuracy of such a play, it appears the pass-assist selected the far player as the recipient.
Adjusting your pass-assist setting to be lower will help with this. It might take a few games to find the sweet spot that works for you.
Broken reverse hits gimmick. I'm not even trying to hit anyone and just get crosschecked at the back of the head by the puck carrier:
https://youtu.be/MgMqiyODrEc?si=b-Min04ZopEv5z_9You went for a stick lift and the player successfully reverse hit you in an attempt to win that battle. This isn't a cross check to the back of the head either. It's a shove-check and due to the proximity of the puck, not interference.
akin to this play
Terrible interceptions despite DFD build with 90+ defensive awareness:
https://youtu.be/0BLgpyEDgUI?si=BCv2Xtmh3Whcv1vP
https://youtu.be/hYmlrIBRKK8?si=hBFb1uLolLyed1gQ#1 - you could make an argument here for sure. I see your issue. However, we don't know the attributes of the player making the pass and it appears they loaded it up for speed. Fast passes when the defender is that close have a risk-reward where the pass can be bobbled, but the reward is a decrease in reaction time for the defender who will miss the pass.
What you should be doing in this position is an LB. One knee down with stick blocking the lane, forcing a sauce pass.
Have a look at one of your other clips and take note of how the defender had more reaction time, and makes the intercept:
#2 - you let the opponent walk right in without engaging them in any kind of defensive action:
Here is what actively defending this play looks like:
The common theme in those clips is defenders standing idle, expecting to intercept the pass just because they're in the way. The game has adjusted the past few years with a more active defensive approach and standing idle is no longer an acceptable defensive posture, nor should it be.
AI just being completely lost (poor positioning):
https://youtu.be/ZYVu87G5tVU?si=0NOGHNl7sfhvumx1
https://youtu.be/qrMKfbWXlVA?si=TsgeNjBMtNGK6aLOI'd like to see your strategies as I think that's contributing to clip #1.
Clip #2 is a good one. LD steps up for no apparent reason, although it may have something to do with the powerplay setup. But that's a good clip!
Hits not registering:
https://youtu.be/tL6f87pQ9vc?si=AIySaiH-kHr-bI0jIf you notice, the puck carrier skillfully initiates puck protect the moment you go for the hit.
And right here is where you should've initiated board-play:
Ai just brutalized players who don't have the puck leaving you constantly 4on5 in the offensive zone. Or just ai auto-hitting everyone the second they receive the puck, turning lazy and weak players who don't even bother to anticipate the play and/or switch players actually decent defenders (bonus reverse hits gimmick at the end):
https://youtu.be/NwqLCS7qMYs?si=LupSjEoyeCCkZdHP
This is a rough hit for sure and could be interference. My argument is that it's the net-front and we're allowed to clear that area as humans as well.
Overall, these are awesome clips! Well done. Kudos to you for stepping up and providing some really good examples of the issues you're having with the game.
- EA_Aljo
That’s all I want in regards to “paddle down” and if they’re going to put it back in for 26.
The reason this was removed is because it didn't work with the new saves and desperation poses. We're interested in bringing it back in the future.
I don’t see how it wouldn’t work with those things but thanks for a reply.
Do you have any video or any of the new saves and desperation poses that were affected by it?
I hope they’re more than “interested” because that doesn’t sound encouraging. It is a vital tool for human goalies. In my opinion it is possibly more important and useful than desperation poses and possibly the new saves affected by it. This is why I’m asking to see what exactly were the new saves and desperation poses it affected.
- EA_Aljo
That's all I have on this. If it returns in a future game, we'll have to wait for that to be announced.
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