Re: OPTION to Force Cockpit in multiplayer?

Different views absolutely have a huge advantage.  They give you unrealistic peripheral vision, let you see apexes, walls, opponents, so much easier, etc.

TRL Limitless posted a great video about why esports need this a few weeks ago:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQWlrpt-oH4

I used to run/own a huge sim racing website with hundreds of F1 201x leagues over the years, and there was probably nothing more discussed than cockpit vs other views, and we jumped through hoops to make the top championships compliant with this rule which is exactly why it just needs to be a optional feature.

There's a reason that all serious sims only allow cockpit view.

But I wouldn’t really say that F1 is a serious sim it’s still a simcade 

True, but I don't really want to make this isn't really about arcade vs sim.  It's just about giving leagues and esports some more legitimacy, or if you prefer, even just giving racers something they want to create the level playing field in the leagues they want to race in.  An option hurts no one, but it does open up the title to more fans and more purchases.  I had a long list of things I was waiting for this title to have in place before buying again and running leagues again, and this is now the very last one!  Please let it be in this year's game already.  Please? 🙂

@moogleslamcan't think of a single reason not to agree with an optional filter or rule to force cockpit view in leagues and perhaps even in lobbies, honestly. As you said, it's optional, extra.

Just the whole "it's more realistic" argument that I find really unappealing.

We've got people playing on a couch with their TV set competing with people with triple screens and proper simracing rigs. We often see people standing behind cockpit as the only real way to play F1 as if the whole player base had a level playing field, with proper setups and proper settings.

It also feels kind of skewed. Real drivers can only sit in their cockpit, yes, but they also get to use their whole field of view and their "popometer", the single best FFB device mother nature ever came up with. We don't get any of that with a flat screen. I'd rather call it an artificial handicap over the holy grail of realism.

Saying that players in TV Pod or whatever get an unfair advantage also doesn't stick with me, personally. Surely it is different, a different point of view with different tradebacks, but it's not like every good player had a given PB with cockpit view and magically dropped 2s when switching to TV Pod.

That said, Codies' F1 are the only (!) games I don't play on cockpit camera. ACC and Gran Turismo (Sport and 7 both) are my main other racing titles and I play them all exclusively on cockpit - even formula cars in GT7! Maybe I'll give it another go on F1 22, let's see.

Again, I'm all for an optional rule to enforce cockpit view in multiplayer. It's just the "more realistic"/"unfair to play otherwise" that I find unappealing.

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@SomaticCoast375 wrote:
@moogleslamOh if you are talking visually then I agree it’s like the 3 worst camera to choose due to the lack of the vison. In terms pace however it’s as good as any other camera

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I'm struggling with why better vision doesn't give a speed advantage, particularly consistently across multiple laps.

I've started using cockpit cam recently. Maybe in time I'll be able to drive identically to using TV pod but I'm not convinced.

Adding this as an option seems a reasonable request to me.

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@Ultrasonic_77 wrote:

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@SomaticCoast375 wrote:
@moogleslamOh if you are talking visually then I agree it’s like the 3 worst camera to choose due to the lack of the vison. In terms pace however it’s as good as any other camera

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I'm struggling with why better vision doesn't give a speed advantage, particularly consistently across multiple laps.

I've started using cockpit cam recently. Maybe in time I'll be able to drive identically to using TV pod but I'm not convinced.

Adding this as an option seems a reasonable request to me.

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FoV settings can enhance the playability further, not sure how much effect they will have in cockpit as weird clipping issues start to occur just as frequently and some of the controls are locked out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsGp7uatx-M

This request has nothing to do with realism.

It is simply about creating a 100% level playing field, and improving the integrity of leagues/results.

Views such as T-Cam/TV Pod absolutely give an advantage in pace over a race distance.  While theoretically, you can create the same lap times in cockpit view, and some do, it is so much easier to be consistent in other views. 

We had a driver switch from cockpit to T-Cam, just to give himself a better chance at winning a championship, and he did.... multiple championships.  This was a guy coming from iRacing, who was hardcore sim racer!

I'm hearing this still isn't in the game, so another year of not buying, and not organizing leagues for it.

Why should I or those so called "PRO'S" in esport "pro" have it easier and better than the real deal? Do you see drivers in real life sit on the Halo or on their T-CAM?

Do you ever see drivers in real life sit on the couch with their feet in the air and a controller in their hands looking at a monitor?

Real life and digital racing is not the same. It can't be the same. 

Why should I or those so called "PRO'S" in esport "pro" have it easier and better than the real deal?

Why should esports drivers have it more difficult and worse than the real deal? A real driver can feel the car, look around, smell, talk to the engineer. An esports driver has way less feedback than a real driver. To compensate a little for the lack of feedback, we've got FFB and we can change the camera angle to improve the feedback we receive. Again, it can't be the same.

Most of the hotlap times in TT are also TCAM times, seconds faster than the real drivers do. WHY would that be?

Because TT is a mode in which every possible element is in an optimal state to get the most out of the car. No tyre wear, no overheating, no dirt, no wind, no fuel, There's also no risk involved for a simracer. If we botch a hotlap, we'll be on the next try in 5 seconds. We have unlimited time to try and set one fast lap. Real drivers only get 12 minutes and 2 to 3 attempts at most. Just to prove my point. Max Verstappen did a 1.28.997 at Bahrain in 2021 to secure pole. The first video of a cockpit cam TT I can find is doing 1.26.542, almost 2,5 seconds faster than the real deal and 2,5 seconds slower than the fastest T-cam hotlap I can find (Lucas Blakeley 1.23.924). It's not (just) the camera point that makes esports driver faster than real life drivers. We don't even know what Lucas Blakeley can do on TT with cockpit. Maybe he can set a 1.24.100? We can not assume that cockpit is 2,5 seconds slower, because most players use T-cam so it's only logical that the fastest times are achieved with T-cam.

my runs are always in cockpit mode, without assists. I'm simply a hardcore lover of F1 and I want it as close to real as I can get.

That's perfectly fine and I admire you for doing that, it's just not that important for esports to be as close to real life as you can get, because of the reasons I gave earlier. The more realistic you try to make it, the more difficult you make it. You could argue that this would make it even less realistic, because it gets more difficult than real F1. Again, it can't be the same.

The same goes for those so called "MASTER" skilled drivers in ranked lobbies who get to that level with all assists enabled and thus winning races easy from non assist drivers. Non assist lobbies should be standard option. There should be more "hardcore" options to create a fair and level playingfield.

I see non assist drivers winning from assist drivers aswell. It's all a matter of who's racing who. If you're really fast (and you want to achieve that MASTER rank, you should be able to win from assisted drivers (who are limited by the assists like TC which makes them slower). If you can't win from a TC user, you aren't a master of the game. 

But as with everything, CM doesn't care a single bit for the hardcore players like you or me or everyone else who would like these options.

Baseless claim. If they didn't care, you wouldn't be able to drive without assists in cockpit mode. Just because they don't have a non-assist/mandatory cockpit cam lobby, doesn't say anything about whether they care more or less about you than any other driver. As far as I'm aware there is only one sort of ranked lobby. Which would mean that Codemasters only cares about players that use the exact assists that are allowed in that mode? No, it's just that they tried to find a standard that would give everyone the chance to compete with drivers with the same pace. If you want to race without assists, find a league!

And I think that it's simply because they don't know how to create something like that.

Baseless claim. They could. But I don't think they would because it would hurt the amount of players that are active in those lobbies. There's just not that much drivers that would play 0-assists and cockpit cam in ranked mode. By putting everyone in the same lobby, Codemasters makes sure that there's always somebody to race against, even if it's someone who uses different assists than you.

FYI: I don't use any assists, but I do use T-cam. And I'm perfectly fine with the non-assists leagues I'm active in. Just as I'm fine with racing ranked lobbies against assist users. If they are as fast as I am, I'll have fun racing them.

@zed08je0ot2vThanks for talking sense in the discussion. To be honest this is a bit off topic as what OP requests is just an extra filter, but as threads like this are doomed to see the same talking points.

Referring to cockpit cam as the only "true" way to play as real F1 drivers don't sit on the halo or whatever is just silly and shortsighted. Feeling the forces through your body and having full use of your eyes (barring the helmet) is vital to driving these cars and yet people act like you were capable of getting the upper hand on the real deal by just switching to T-Cam.

There's an argument for making cockpit cam or any cam for that matter the default for competitions, but that's only to have some sort of standard. Arguing it is necessary for "realism" is plain out silly.

Immersion? Yeah, I can see that. Realism? Ludicrous.

Edit: Look at this fluke playing on T-Cam! Does he, like, not care about realism? /s

Edit: @BarryBL 

I'll ask the question of if we can get any objective analytics behind the idea, and try to figure out the true demand of such a addition. Its reward as a entire player base vs resource. Have to remember that we are more than willing to make additions, but we just need to find the numbers across the whole game to justify its addition and the expense of valuable dev time. 

This should be hung on the wall 💗