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Collector321's avatar
Collector321
Seasoned Adventurer
2 years ago

Vantage ult can hit players behind cover

tl;dr

In case you don't feel like reading the whole post, check out this clip which provides a clear view of the issue:


Intro

Hi folks,

I'm writing because I have been noticing some issues with Vantage's ultimate. It is able to consistently hit players behind cover. The problem is that the bullet it fires has a huge hitbox which applies only to players. When it comes to striking cover, the bullet actually has a very small hitbox. This means the bullet can fly past a piece of cover that a player is hiding behind, wide enough to miss the cover entirely, with the bullet's hitbox still hitting the player. Because of this, even if you have your character's entire hitbox behind cover, where no other gun can hit you, Vantage's ult can still tag you. This problem is worse at longer ranges, where the projectile hitbox grows larger. This mechanic breaks sniper fights, because Vantage can hit you even if you execute a perfect peek shot.


Vantage projectile size only applies to hitting players

As some of you may know, Vantage's sniper rifle has bullets that are much larger than any other sniper in the game. These bullets are approximately the size of basketballs:

I can understand that Vantage may need this extra bullet size in order to make her competitive as a legend. However, there is a problem: this extra bullet size only applies to hitting players, not cover. 

If the bullet is going to have a hit reg zone the size of a basketball, it should never be able to pass through a narrow gap such as a railing. In the following clip, I'll show how this looks in practice. If the projectile is big enough for the first shot to hit, the second shot should not be able to pass through the narrow railing gap. It is able to do so because the projectile's massive hitbox applies to striking enemies but not cover. As I will show in the next section, this behavior has problematic implications.


Vantage can hit players that are fully covered

Because Vantage's bullets have increased size when it comes to hitting players, but not cover, it's possible to damage players who are fully behind cover using her rifle. This is incredibly unfair in sniper fights.

Clip with longbow for comparison - note that the target is fully behind cover and can't be hit with a normal weapon.

Because of this, Vantage's sniper is difficult to peek against. Even if you completely return to cover before Vantage fires their shot, they are likely to tag you behind cover due to this mechanic. In my opinion, this should not be possible. If the bullet is big enough to catch a target that is completely behind cover, then because of the bullet's size size it should first make contact with the cover and bounce off.

Why is it that a basketball sized projectile can pass through a tiny gap? Bullets are small. They should be able to pass through tight gaps, and as a tradeoff their smaller size makes shots more difficult to land. Basketball sized projectiles may make it easier to land shots, but by their nature they should never be able to sneak through a narrow gap. Somehow, Vantage's ult is currently enjoying the best of both worlds, with bullets that can sneak through a hair-size gap, but also impact a player that they missed by a foot or more. This means a bullet can fly past the cover that a player is hiding behind, with the hitbox of the bullet actually touching the player - despite the fact that they are completely behind cover. This is allowing for some pretty unfair shots during sniper vs sniper fights, where Vantage already has the benefit of not needing to calculate bullet drop.

In my view, Vantage's ult should not be able to hit any player who is completely behind cover. In today's game it's a regular occurrence. At long ranges, Vantage's bullet grows so large that it can easily hit a target that is fully behind cover and unreachable by any other gun.

This makes it overly difficult to countersnipe against Vantage without being hit, because they can hit you even after you've crouched behind cover. See example below.




In summary: Vantage can hit targets that are completely protected by cover. This seems unfair and I hope it is changed. It's not a good feeling when you execute a clean peek shot, but get tagged anyway due to this unfair mechanic.

Thanks.

38 Replies

  • Collector321's avatar
    Collector321
    Seasoned Adventurer
    2 years ago

    @Asmodeus566 

    It seems like we will have to disagree, because the evidence clearly supports what I am saying, while you are disagreeing without any proof.

  • Asmodeus566's avatar
    Asmodeus566
    Hero+
    2 years ago

    @Collector321 

    Your first set of vids and pics including the close ups where all the proof I needed to come up with my evaluation of your claim, providing a different data point would not be looking at the same perameters.

    I am  not dismissing your claim totally just stating with what you are providing it is all so on the razors edge that it is not a clear cut case that Vantage can hit people behind cover, as they may just be out of cover. Your pics not mine and like I say that bots leg looked just out of cover.

  • Collector321's avatar
    Collector321
    Seasoned Adventurer
    2 years ago

    @Asmodeus566 

    In other words, you do not have any explanation for the newest evidence, but you are choosing to maintain your position regardless. 

    I will ask you again the same question I asked in my most recent post.

    > Vantage's bullet behaves like a bowling ball in terms of hitting players, but like a normal bullet when it comes to hitting cover.

    > If this shot deflects off the wraith's hitbox, how is it possible for the second shot not to deflect off the crate — unless what I'm saying is true?

  • Asmodeus566's avatar
    Asmodeus566
    Hero+
    2 years ago

    @Collector321 

    Either way I do have to say even though we will disagree on this topic. I had a very nice discussion with you about it and like I said if you think that strongly about it post it in the bug section. Maybe you are right and my eyes are deceiving me.

  • Collector321's avatar
    Collector321
    Seasoned Adventurer
    2 years ago

    @Asmodeus566

    Fair enough, I appreciate your criticism of the initial evidence as it led me to create a clearer follow-up post.

  • Asmodeus566's avatar
    Asmodeus566
    Hero+
    2 years ago

    @Collector321 

    no problem, I do know that weapons react differently vs Allie’s however I have not tested that stuff and the firing range has some unique qualities as per weapons and interactions. I read somewhere on the boards someone was claiming the bullets would richochet off of walls and such. 

  • ComicBookGuy2727's avatar
    ComicBookGuy2727
    Rising Ace
    2 years ago
    @Asmodeus566 I have tested her enough in the firing range to tell you with complete confidence that, YES, she can hit targets behind cover and as well as making contact without aiming within the hit box. This has been proven already with countless videos or casuals as well as top players. There is no debate here.... much like the hamster servers EA refuses to upgrade.
  • Collector321's avatar
    Collector321
    Seasoned Adventurer
    14 hours ago

    Interesting comment from the devs in the patch notes today:

    Dev Note: For our Snipers, we’ve tuned their headshot damage to be much more impactful rather than increase their base body shot damage. This is to key into their role and fantasy as precision weapons that reward patient and skilled gameplay. To hammer this home, we’ve reduced the amount of damage they deal to limbs. These weapons benefit greatly from well placed shots and we don’t want that to change.


    Isn't Vantage's ult considered a sniper? It is named "sniper's mark," so I have to assume it is. Could we perhaps revisit her ult to have a greater focus on headshots? This weapon is far too effective against the body and limbs to be considered a "sniper" based on the above definition. Two shots in someone's foot is net 175 damage. 

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