Just witnessed the most bot team win
It was infuriating to watch is the point of this post. They won because of two things, aim assist, and for some reason having a connection to the server that was obviously better than others. The te...
Forum Discussion
@WhoopFighter
"Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close."
Not disagreeing with much of anything you said except the above. 25 years of aa on xbox and my weapons have NEVER snapped to a target or given me any kind of a sense of confidence going into a close-quarters engagement. My accuracy is what used to be considered average, but there are no average players left in the game anymore. As you noted. I just get frustrated when everyone attributes unbeatable players to aim assist. I have had aim assist forever and I can assure you, I'm very beatable. And given all the other ways these guys seem to be cheating, is it such a stretch to believe that their aim is being helped far in excess of anything built-in aa can do?
@reconzero wrote:
@WhoopFighter
"Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close."
Not disagreeing with much of anything you said except the above. 25 year of aa on xbox and my weapons have NEVER snapped to a target or given me any kind of a sense of confidence going into a close-quarters engagement. My accuracy is what used to be considered average, but there are no average players left in the game anymore. As you noted. I just get frustrated when everyone attributes unbeatable players to aim assist. I have had aim assist forever and I can assure you, I'm very beatable. And given all the other ways these guys seem to be cheating, is it such a stretch to believe that their aim is being helped far in excess of anything built-in aa can do?
I was the same way with a controller. Some people just have better hand mechanics for controller. That's one of the issues I have with it. You can find any mouse and keyboard to fit any sized hand correctly. Controllers in contrary only fit a certain percentage of hands well. You should try using a mouse honestly, you'll probably end up enjoying shooters a lot more. I could never go back and play shooters with a controller after switching.
When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which effects a mouse user far more than a controller player.
The only solution is to separate lobbies. It's not fair, but that's the best we can do with the mentalities that have formed around aim assist given to only some, and that is somehow even?!
I've seen some people with near MnK movement on a controller, so why should they get aim assist then? If they can do anything I can on a mouse, what's the point? Anyone that's even slightly above average with a controller has the capability of one clipping a player easily. That's not easy with a mouse. There's so much prediction, no one stands still for even a millisecond in this game, 20 tick server, lag comp, stuttering, all adds up to a lot of mental stress to stay on target. I think it gets grossly underestimated how much brain power it takes for a mouse player to stay on target. People literally practice in aim trainers for days to get proficient at aiming! What controller players are doing that?
I'm sorry that you're maybe having a rough time. If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so. Not just for Apex, for any shooter. It gives a more connected feeling while playing. If you don't have the thumbs to be pro with a controller, which most of us don't, using a mouse will make you a much better player. I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.
@WhoopFighter wrote:If I remember correctly, you're on console? If there's anyway you can try using a mouse, I highly encourage you to do so.
I struggled for years, grew up on console, then switched in my twenties, and I became the player to beat amongst my friends.
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I hope you are suggesting a switch from console to PC, and not a way to use m&k on a console, which would attract a ban.
@OldTreeCreeperWas that really necessary? Maybe a little over zealous today?
Maybe they have a friend, sister, wife, or a brother that's has a PC they could try? Personally I don't see a problem with using a xim as a way to use MnK on console, but that's just my opinion, and not one I stated in this thread, until now. Nor is that what I suggested. They are an adult and can make their own decisions.
I'm on PC, so I don't know the TOS for console, but I doubt that would actually get you banned. Not really my concern though, is it?Any form of 3rd party software is considered cheating.
And that means for all the clowns running and gunning with their macros on a mouse, using xims or cronus packs, yes...that means you are hacking the game.
Read the terms of service etc etc etc. 99% of players don't and have no clue.
- @WhoopFighter
First, 100% yes, lobbies need desperately to be segregated.
"When I die to someone one-clipping me, it's usually a controller player. You can watch how they rotate their character, it's smooth, there's no flicking back and forth to check blind spots. While I watch them, they just stick to targets, rotate perfectly with their opponent. So that's a problem for a multitude of reasons, it alleviates brain power, which allows them to focus more on their movement and positioning. Obviously it keeps them on target, they don't seem to be searching for a hit box, in contrast I'm crossing back and forth over my opponent searching for some hit reg. I've seen guys aim a couple feet to the side of their opponent and still get shots to register. So the hit box is there, but as a mouse player, I'm looking at the character, not their hit box. Then you have all the visual clutter on top of that, which affects a mouse user far more than a controller player."
When I read the above paragraph I didn't feel like I was reading a description of anything that happens when I try to shoot someone. It read like a description of an aimbot. An actual bought-and-paid-for cheat.
Then again, later on when you described the relative effects of aa with an average player vs. a player with already good aim... that rang true as well. Of course, the problem there is when a majority of average players are asked to give something up in order to prevent the 5% from abusing it... well, that sounds extreme. Another argument in favor of input-based lobbies.
You've made me very curious about the mechanics of a mouse and keyboard, but I have to admit that the roadblocks are too big and too numerous. I'm Mac, not pc. Problem number one. I'm a muscle memory player (as I suppose we all are to some degree) so I feel like the learning curve would be STEEP. That's problem two. And number three is: I'm just plain too old to have to re-invent the wheel at this point. And honestly, when I go into the firing range, set everything up to max difficulty and have at it... my accuracy is good by almost any standard, and my ability to shoot and kill without dying is also insanely good. Obviously "good against remotes is one thing" is a true statement. The firing range at its most difficult doesn't even begin to simulate what you find in bronze/silver lobby on a good day. But it tells me that my aim is less of a problem than how I feel about my aim.
All in all, good advice. And who knows? Maybe someone will give me a pc and I'll have an excuse to try it out.- @reconzero I think whoopfighter may have encountered cheaters judging by the amount of people we see admitting to cheating on the internet.
The AA on controller for pc is so low now I don't even notice I have it anymore. I am in the process of switching to MnK and right now I only play with it in the firing range, bot royale, and strinova just to get the mechanics down until I feel confident. (With the smaller playerbase in apex I play with the same people week after week and I don't want to upset these people by not being good enough with MnK yet.) I do notice the shooting is much more easy to be accurate on MnK than it is on controller. To me it takes a lot more effort to keep the reticle on the enemy with controller and control the recoil than it does for MnK when you just move your wrist to get rid of recoil. Also, you can tap strafe on MnK to avoid shots. My hangup on MnK has been using skills and items.
Anyway, they need separate input lobbies and to crack down on cheaters. Most in the cheater forums claim they use an outside program to increase aim assist where they never miss, and I think that could be what the OP is dealing with here. With 8,000 people enrolled at that forum I think it is obvious this is out of control.
If it were only controller players playing against each other without any cheats or hacks the game would be a lot more fun. I also think most of the other problems (server issues, crashing, hit reg, sbmm/eomm, etc) would all go away since they are more than likely a symptom of the same problem. Teams with no skills should not be winning so many matches, so I hope it's soon. @reconzeroWith aim assist, the average controller player will have a much higher accuracy than the average mouse user. So it's not a small percentage, nor are they abusing it. That part of your statement doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
You can look up stats from other games that have a lot of aim assist as well. There's some very damning charts from Halo Infinite, and it showed just how much of a disadvantage you were trying to use a mouse. I tried playing the game when it released. Aim assist does stick to players, and that's not because it's a third party software aimbot, it's just your regular aim assist. Which could be argued that it is in fact an aim bot. It's a script that tracks an enemy for the player, but it's a "legal" aim bot because it was put into the game by the developers.
I'm not sure if Apex has a "snap to target" like BF2042 has, but there is certainly a lot of rotational assist in the game. Once you're on target, it will absolutely stick if you know how to move your sticks in a way that promotes that. And I'm not talking about tracking with the joystick, it's if you strafe while ADS, it will then stick to the target. If you don't strafe correctly, it doesn't stick as well. It's like that in most games I've tried with AA. It sticks a lot more if you just simply strafe a little bit.
This is always how the discussion goes unfortunately. Fair is that no one gets aim assist, and if you want to be top dog in a PC game, then you should have to use a mouse. That would be fair. It's not about fair, and I think fair competition is a fallacy anyways, but when they're trying to sell us on a competitive game, that's where the issue lies.
I wouldn't care about aim assist nearly as much if the game was designed around something other than just trying to win gunfights. When I have 1,000's of hours using a mouse and keyboard across multiple FPS games, have gear that's all the lowest latency including my monitor, use my arm on my 19" x 19" mouse pad to aim, to just get beat by someone that's using their thumbs... that's insulting. I don't know how else to put it.
Imagine iRacing being taken over by controllers because they gave them assist in racing. So you could either put together $2,500 racing rig, or just use a $50 controller to win races. It's the same thing here, but it's been normalized for some reason, mostly because of consoles. Which I don't have any issue with consoles themselves.
Switching to a mouse would definitely take time, but if you already understand how to play, it should be a bit easier. I grew up using a controller, and no way I could go back. So I'm sure you could pick it up just fine if you were motivated enough, like anything else.I dont think you could argue that aim assist is aimbot at all. Afaik they are 2 completely different things.
I play on console, but i am always suprised that m&k pc players complain about aim assist. Theres no way i can compete on a controller against the range and speed of movement and response times on m&k, as an ordinary player.
By the way, clarity again please, what fellow volunteer are you talking about? Thanks
