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StarvingVirtues's avatar
StarvingVirtues
4 years ago
Solved

Can we talk about the MCS-880 ammo types?

Hi, I am a shotgun user. As you can imagine, using a shotgun on huge maps in a world where the PP-29 and SVK exists isn't exactly easy - but when it comes to shotties, I'm ride or die. 

What is even more difficult, however, is finding any detailed information about the ammo types accessable. 

Here is what I know: 
#1 Buckshot is the default.
#4 Buckshot has a wider AoE. 
Slugs are a single projectile and basically are for headshots, or two-tapping the body at range. (Not viable at close range 2 tap due to long follow-up shot.) 
Flechette is a mystery to me. 
#00 seems to be the opposite of #4 Buckshot: more damage than #1, more range, more accuracy. 

Here are my questions: 
Why use #4 buckshot when still requires near pinpoint accuracy in CQC? I don't see much of a practical difference between #01 and #4.... the #4's doesn't seem to reload faster, have a higher RPM, or have better handling, even though it is advertised to have those advantages.

Slugs are "fine" except they fly extremely slowly, which is an issue. Why is this the case? 

What does Flechette do? What is "anti-personnel" about it? Can it be hip-fired effectively, or require ADS like slugs? What kind of range does it have compared to the other ammo types? 

#00 Buckshot doesn't seem to have a place to me. Is it just #01 Buckshot with more range? I saw a video of #00 buckshot which showed it unable to 1 tap; instead doing about half the HP of a target with a direct chest shot. How could this be, as it is buckshot? Can someone explain how #00 works? 

Grateful if you read the whole thread. 


discussion
  • Fringerunner's avatar
    Fringerunner
    4 years ago
    @StarvingVirtues Off the top of my head, maybe the #4 will guarantee a one-shot inside optimal range even if the target has a plate on vs #0, but that's the only logical game mechanism reason i can think of.

    You mentioned #4 had a wider pellet spread, but that's generally not a good thing for lethality though maybe it has more pellets and a wider spread making your lethal radius bigger? (ie; more forgiving seeing as it's currently rather garbage compared to shotguns in previous games)

    Then again I'm trying to apply logic here to a design that might not be logical at it's base so we're basically guessing unless you keep going on the unlocks.

    I'd suggest doing solo breakthrough vs bots for the unlocks to make it a little less painful, but the map layouts are still not exactly shotgun friendly and the bots aren't any more merciful than real players if you try to close the distance with a shotgun, maybe give it a spin and see if you can speed up the unlocks a bit.

15 Replies

  • Fringerunner's avatar
    Fringerunner
    4 years ago
    @StarvingVirtues I haven't unlocked them yet so take it with a grain of salt, but older BF shotgun flechettes generally overpenetrate, they're basically a bunch of darts rather than buckshot.

    Meaning that instead of just killing the guy right in front of you, they may take out the guy behind or more with a single shot (depending on if there's any kind of damage cap on them and what the base damage is).

    All depends on the damage model of course, in theory they should do less damage than buckshot but go clean through people and damage anyone behind.
  • StarvingVirtues's avatar
    StarvingVirtues
    4 years ago

    Yes, I agree. I'm just hoping someone who has unlocked all the ammo types for the MCS-880 happens to see this and is feeling generous with their time. 

    Thank you for the reply! 

    And if I happen to find the info I'm looking for, I'll come back and post it in this thread. 

  • StarvingVirtues's avatar
    StarvingVirtues
    4 years ago
    @Fringerunner Interesting... perhaps Flechette ignores personal armor? It may only be capped at 20, but that certainly would make a difference.

    Thank you for replying!
  • Fringerunner's avatar
    Fringerunner
    4 years ago
    @StarvingVirtues That's the usual role yes, or rather the overpenetration part.

    Makes a lot more sense to deploy in the autoshotgun than the 870-analogue if it's not a one-shot kill imo, but maybe they'll release some CQB maps where ammo like that could be useful.
    I think the USAS had flechette ammo as an option in 3 or 4, not entirely sure anymore, but as room-sweeper ammo it absolutely had a role.

    Don't see it being particularly useful with the current maps but good for you for doubling down on shotguns, must be utterly painful in the current AOW map setting and the new reticle, but your testing is appreciated.
    (the new shotgun reticle is.. interesting imo)

    Amusingly, slugs (or frangibles if you care a little about the other side of the door or your stack) are generally deployed to chew through hinges/locks and such on breaches and would make a lot more sense as point blank AP/oneshot rounds when people have body armor, but seem to be relegated to "sniper" ammo in BF games, but that's a different debate.
  • StarvingVirtues's avatar
    StarvingVirtues
    4 years ago

    @Fringerunner I'm just genuinely hoping that #00 buckshot is a better version of #01 buckshot, for several reasons: 

    1) It's the last ammo type to be unlocked 
    2) It doesn't make sense that the biggest, meanest IRL buckshot would deal less damage than #01 buckshot 
    3) #4 buck and #00 buck are unique to the pump action shotty, while #01 is the default ammo for both shotguns (12M Auto, MCS-880 pump)

    With the 12M Auto, your loadout is fairly obvious: you want slugs, flechette, and the #01 buckshot drum mag. (The only other two options is the standard 8 round #01 buckshot mag, and the extended 12 round #01 buckshot mag.) 

    With the MCS-880 pump, you also get flechette and slugs -- but you get #00, #01, and #4 buckshot. With #4 being a "short range" ammo type with large spread and a lot of pellets, and #00 being the "long range." 

    The issue with #00 not OHKOing a target at close range are as follows: 
    A) It deals more damage than #01 buckshot per shot 
    A2) It has more accuracy 
    A3) It has more range 
    B) #00 buckshot would destroy someone IRL - it has the largest buckshot and will make significant exit wounds - and to make that the only buckshot incapable of an OHKO at CQC would be completely nonsensical. 
    C) #00 buckshot supposedly has a longer reload time, slower RPM, and more recoil than the other buckshot types. 

    So if slugs are for headshots/two tapping someone at long distance
    Flechette is for penetration (but still OHKOs at short range)
    #01 buckshot is "jack of all trades" (but still OHKOs at short range)
    #04 buckshot is for CQC (but still OHKOs at short range) 
    What is good God's name is #00 buckshot for if it cannot OKHO at short range? What niche would it fulfill? 

  • XxKrazymagicxX's avatar
    XxKrazymagicxX
    4 years ago

    I would love to play around with Shotguns. I like them in other games. Battlefield though seems to be a game where shotguns are just so not viable. You put yourself at such a huge disadvantage because the vast majority of your engagements will be at range. Unless you just camp control points all game or something. I can see it being hard to make shotguns feel like they have a place in a game like this. The scale, the range, is just too large.

  • Fringerunner's avatar
    Fringerunner
    4 years ago
    @StarvingVirtues Off the top of my head, maybe the #4 will guarantee a one-shot inside optimal range even if the target has a plate on vs #0, but that's the only logical game mechanism reason i can think of.

    You mentioned #4 had a wider pellet spread, but that's generally not a good thing for lethality though maybe it has more pellets and a wider spread making your lethal radius bigger? (ie; more forgiving seeing as it's currently rather garbage compared to shotguns in previous games)

    Then again I'm trying to apply logic here to a design that might not be logical at it's base so we're basically guessing unless you keep going on the unlocks.

    I'd suggest doing solo breakthrough vs bots for the unlocks to make it a little less painful, but the map layouts are still not exactly shotgun friendly and the bots aren't any more merciful than real players if you try to close the distance with a shotgun, maybe give it a spin and see if you can speed up the unlocks a bit.

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