Forum Discussion

3 years ago

Current BF feeling as Veterans - What is yours?

Greets,

This post purpose is to highlight further issues of the game (Start to now, with focus on now) from a veteran team of players. (Scroll down to the bold title if you want to skip the back story)

My real Battlefield journey began at Bad Company 2, 2010. We quickly became a team of 4 that played 3 times a week to make our biggest hobby work together with our lives.
That is 12 years of weekly battlefield experience, with barely any pauses. How many games have you played for 12 years with real dedication?

As you heard may times before, and might not share the opinion on, Battlefield 4 became the unbeatable perfected FPS game from our point of view.
The games after had its charms, and we do understand that they need to push the limits and explore new ways, while it wasn't quite the same feeling. Things seem to be made for the general audience where we lost a lot of the feeling and balance for different weapons and vehicles that was extremely good in the past games.

Battlefield 2042 came and you could feel that this was the new battlefield game to reach the skies. (We also love the modern style of battlefield games compared to WW1 and WW2)
As usual, we bought the most expensive packs to support our favorite developers and get some early access.

What hit us was a game that was at an Alpha stage as its best, one week before launch, and we couldn't believe it. It felt like the fundamental culture of the company DICE had changed at its core. There has always been new bugs at every update that takes too long to fix, but this was something else. Did DICE eat more than they could shew? Was the scope too big? Was the push from the top to sell and launch the game without anyone listening to someone that must have said something, or do you not play the game that you create? It is hard to understand and we can only hope that the lesson has been learned. Destroying such a legacy as an award of itself. Taking a year before solving most basic bugs and issues isn't acceptable. Enough about that, let us look at the future and hold on to whatever hope there is.

After finding ourselves being irritated after every sessions (3 times a week), trying different settings of the game, turning off/on cross-play, trying a huge amount of different strategies, we found that this game was no longer fun. The basics are there to be the best battlefield that has been created, but the devil is in the details as you say. (Now when the bugs are gone and you can actually play the game)

A month ago, we found our way back, and tried Lis as an entire squad to be able to make a change at the battlefield. We had a chance to play as a team again and solve situations.
The spark of hope was back, we even laughed and was happy at some points. Could this be the change? (Please remember that we are very experienced players and are above average)
Yes, but no. The update came and we sat down yesterday ready to adapt and evolve. Wait a second, you can no longer turn Lis rocket. We were back to ground zero again and we got completely drained of energy for 2 hours trying to push ourselves into positivity "That we will learn". No, that is not the case. It was hard enough before, almost impossible now. I am not sure that we will be back, we might try another night or two, but we sadly spent too much time living on the belief that we like this game. It might be that we are getting old (We are 28-40), are a dying breed, or it might be that the game simply turned into a direction that everyone else loves but doesn't work for us. (I guess that should be shown by numbers with a high player base in that case)
We believe that Battlefield have quite far to get us back as most likely some of the most committed players that they have.

WHY WE BELIEVE THE GAME ISN'T WORKING RIGHT NOW:
This is hard statement that everyone will have different opinions on. We do not say that these are right, but these are our current things that we things of when we play the game, and that gets us frustrated/get us to stop playing the game. Take it as you wish.

1. Chaos
You die constantly, by everything. This is not CoD, this is battlefield.
The idea of a massive war is intriguing, but we believe it has become too massive.

A part of the balance could be to mix around with the max amount of players to find a perfect balance so that a squad playing as a team could make some kind of a difference in one flag. The idea has not been to take as many as you can with you, die, instantly spawn, repeat. Kills and deaths means something in battlefield compared to other FPS games. 128 players are simply too many.

Dying should leave you to wait a bit before being able to re-spawn, so that clearing out a squad or a flag is possible without everyone re-spawning instantly.
This means that both a death and kill is worth more and rushing in might lose you more than you win. Chill it down an inch!

Stop the dead player to be able to turn around the camera to tell where the person are, and stop the highlight of the killer once shown. So if the person that killed you move position, you do not know exactly where they are. If the don't, like a sniper camping, you can explain it to the team. It then leaves it up to the player that killed you to stay or move to balance an advantage/disadvantage. (I personally love not highlighting on the map and not showing where someone is at all but I wont push this discussion towards hardcore)

2. Weapons
Weapons, weapons, weapons. The core is in the weapons. It is an FPS. It doesn't matter what you do if weapons aren't balanced.
Every attachment should make a difference, and these should be the main focus as unlocks.

Basic structure:
Close range - SMG + Utility (Shotguns)
Mid range - Assault + LMG
Long Range - Marksman + Sniper

This do of course come with a bit of variety. Example:
SMG could hit mid range, but will spread LOADS if shot mid-long range making it extremely hard to hit a target.
Assault could hit on long range if you go down on single shot, or carefully burst. LMG will achieve this a bit better than a moving assault weapon by using bipods.
Marksman will always need 2, or 3 shots to kill a person, while a sniper needs 1-2. The Marksman rifles will drop more than a sniper making it easier to hit with a sniper on long range than a marksman rifle.

One example of how it works today is that an SMG (PBX-45) shoots more straight/reach longer without dropping than the FTW-50 sniper. Should not be possible.
Speaking of the FTW-50, it seem to be reduced in damage a while back, while the bullet still drops as stone in water. Most other regular weapons shoots longer than the FTW-50 sniper, it is not reasonable. It is the strongest sniper, but also the slowest to reload and shoot with (2 x other snipers). Please fix the drop as it is still a challenge to hit a moving target.

Please put some effort into all weapons and their attachments. Look at the data what people play to get rid of the over powered ones quickly where you sightly change and update or remove them from the game until balanced like you did in the beginning. We would feel that you are there, looking into the balance at all times and doing small adjustments to achieve the better balance. It doesn't have to be major changes all the time, small adjustments often could reach the same result while avoiding huge turns for the players.

In the beginning, you turned off an item or two that you found was used by everyone or wasn't balanced. Why did this stop?
It is a great tool and shows that you car as we see that you look at your data to avoid one weapon/gadget not being used at all, or one being used by all.

3. Vehicles
Where do I begin. Having some vehicles in the beginning being the new horse from previous battlefields finally got better. What more?

Repairs:
Vehicles seem to be able to use their custom repair kit too often, make this delay a lot longer. The idea is that you have a team mate (Or yourself) with a repair tool, that is battlefield.
Also, if a vehicle is hit by anything when using the repair kit, it stops. (Even an anti-vehicle bullet) That would become a tactical challenge and also give these bullets an even bigger purpose.

Helicopters:
Where should I begin, these are one of the biggest issues of battlefield contributing to the chaos. Having a skilled pilot in an apache (Or other) has previously been a fun challenge, while it now instead takes the fun out of the game. Why? Balance. Let me give you some context and come up with suggestions that could make a difference.

We tried as a team of 4 to focus only on helicopters, having about 20-30 deaths before we kill 1 skilled helicopter or decide to give up.
We tried all 4 with stingers, hacker profiles, soflams and every combination but it just doesn't work. 4 people 100% focusing on 1 vehicle should be able to stand a chance.

Giving Lis back her rocket that you could turn around with is a good start, we died about 10-15 times before being able to kill or chase of one skilled pilot so it was still hard but was possible. Most are not playing Lis so this shouldn't be an issue but rather giving people a chance.

Longer cool-down on flares for air vehicles, or perhaps have 2 that they could use, then need to wait some time to load up 1 at a time. (Similar to Lis)
Increase the stinger capacity by +1 so that more people feel the worth of using them, and so that you could counter the air vehicles as you waste at least 2 to flares, and maybe 1 more on hitting a wall (When they turn around buildings etc) before being able to make a hit unless they flee or kill you.

Stealth Helicopter - Remove possibility to use flares if you decide to stealth as that is an active decision to not be targeted by a stinger. Should also be a cooldown (30-60 sec?) once you switch so that you can't move back and forth too quickly. These are nightmares. Adding an even more powerful air vehicle when the original ones was a nightmare is a strange decision.

Add a new gadget that all players could have which works as a stationary anti-air turret. It could shoot one small rocket at a time that takes about 10% damage on the air vehicle, having to load up for 10 sec before shooting again, while the gadget are easily killed by the air vehicle or bullets by players. This one might sound different to the current warnings or not warn at all as bullets ("Going under the radar") to have some hit effect on the vehicles. It is still a decision for a player to remove another gadget so it should not break any variety. (Most people are selfish)

Overall, look over to perhaps reduce the amount of attack vehicles on the map and/or make the re-spawn time for some of them longer.
A ton of transport vehicles are still great and necessary.

4. Other/General gameplay:
- People jump and slide around while shooting. This isn't Fortnite, it is Battlefield. Add a small delay when sliding and make it slightly harder to jump around (up/down) while shooting
- Slightly reduce the amount of "dogs" being deployed into the game as the are quite fun, but contribute to chaos which is negative at this point (Test around, I could personally live without them)
- If a person create a party of 4 with their friends, always make the person the party leader when entering a game (The players will otherwise fix it themselves as they are friends). If a part of 3 creates a part and enters a NEW game, at least give each person a 25% chance to become a party leader, it always seem to become the last random 1 person. If one or several people joins an already existing squad, don't switch party leaders
- The regular "Rocket launcher" is extremely hard to aim with as you can't see anything on the side when shooting with it. Make the sight more of a "glass" /"transparent" variant so that you could hit a moving vehicle if you aim well by taking the speed on the side into consideration (As it is almost impossible to hip fire with it, which might be a good thing)

New bug:
When I try to call in a vehicle or "dog", I can't move up and down any longer. I try to go for the vehicle I want but it shuts down the menu to think that I selected it for every move up and down I do. I need to move it, have it selected (false), cancel it, open the menu again, and start over as many times I want to move up or down. This is not fun and doesn't work when things have to go fast. Please look into it.

Failed update:
Bring back Lis rocket movability back.

Anyone that read this, what are your current thoughts about the game?

DICE, you are loosing some of your biggest ambassadors. We never even get an answer on this forum. Do you care any longer?
We want to believe in you, but you have to show we are in this together.

All the best,
Zathex

discussion

49 Replies

DigitalHype
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@ZathexI agree with a lot of your points. BF2042 conquest is not at all like the conquest experience of other titles Certainly not BF4 and earlier. BF2042 conquest doesn't flow well, and you are almost constnatly under attack from 360 degrees. Often spawning on an objective, only to be placed nowhere near the flag and right in front of an enemy or tank.
The spawn system in BF2042, combined with increased player count, and bad design decisions (e.g. too much vertical gameplay, vehicles on buildings, map layouts, etc.) makes for terrible flow. The increased soldier movement speeds, high ROF weapons with low sever tickrates (TTK/TTD problems). It's too frenetic now.
I think a big part of the problem is the lack of reward and incentive for doing things that promote teamplay and winning. No more bonuses for completing squad leader orders. They've gutted so many features and removed the tools required for squad managment. I think smaller squads also leads to more lone wolfing.
I also agree with your points about Lis missle nerf being too hard. I don't have an issue with the reduced speed, range, and boost. But they went too far on the nerf to its maneuverability.
Gterror8
Seasoned Traveler
3 years ago
@ZathexI agree with you completely, as a Bf veteran myself (since BF2) i can tell you that this ain't my cup of tea. I've clocked in 190 hours and most of the time i've had to force myself to play it. There was nothing else to play so BF 2042 was my only option, i've played SOOOO much of the other BF games, didn't feel like going back to them either, so i played BF 2042 from time to time, not really having fun.
But then came out COD MWII and let me tell you, it's daaamn fun and i'm not even a COD guy, always have i been a BF player. But this COD is just awsome especially the DMZ mode, I highly recommend you to try it, very fun with friends AND it's FREE.
l_Grand_Vizir_l
New Veteran
3 years ago
Feel pretty like you about BF.
Battlefield turn to easier games, less progression curve, everybody must have a "battlefield moment" in every round... But it gives less emotions.
Gameplay is far from as deep as it was, we get bored faster, probably because a long life game isn't suitable for the industry.
Fast easy junk food, easy to eat and easy too p...
My personal feeling is BF1 is the turning point. Not saying it wasn't fun, but we started to lose precious things we'll probably never see again.
Zathex
3 years ago
@DigitalHype Great point, I forgot that one.
Spawning on a flag should not put you on front of someones aim or a tank that runs over you. Being instantly killed isn't fun, isn' strategy to save the flag, and is nothing you have control over. One would expect that the game would put out further out, in a building or be smart in one way to at least not put you in front of something that will kill you asap.
It is my decision to spawn there, but it is a huge part of the strategy to save a flag. It can't be fund for a tank either when they put me beside it and I C4 it, or someone else that are put inside my sight so that I just press the button and get the kill.

Battlefield is a team game where team play used to matter, no it is everyone for themselves which of course is also a problem with as for example air vehicles as people do other things they believe are more fun than to take care of a good pilot because it is too hard. Aim more towards team play by good reward as you say!

@Gterror8 - Force yourself into playing it, that is exactly our feeling, couldn't agree more. It is not how a game that you love should be.
I might try it as I heard good things about CoD Zombie mode, while I can't stop hoping that they will fix this game. I will not buy the next battlefield (For the first time during my 12 years) until it has been proved a success.

I came to think on a few other points:
- Trying to mark a flag as a team leader is now extremely hard for some reason, might only be me on PS5 but I have to really aim and do it several times
- Stop the possibility to look outside vehicles (a.k.a old hardcore) could be a way to stop also stop them from seeing where missile are coming from and where people run and hide. Might solve most things actually (People will mostly cry about it as it would "become to hard")
- Calling in vehicles in the middle on the battlefield could be focused on transport vehicles, instead of tanks, to also balance that a bit, however not sure if necessary
- The classes with special abilities touches more of a "kid" game than an original battlefield game in my opinion, these could be skipped entirely. One idea could be to keep them but make you "earn points" by taking flags, (maybe killing enemies), supporting your friends with healing etc where you could use your ability ones, then need to save up points again. This could reward people that play for the team to get a small usable once only reward

Thank you both for taking the time to read and answer!

Kind regards,
Zathex
Zathex
3 years ago
@l_Grand_Vizir_l - The feeling of the next generation not having any patience, want things easy and served might be true. Hope not!
It is a company that needs to earn money in the end of the day, but these numbers speak for themselves.
It takes a long time to build up a good reputation, it takes a moment to ruin it. They have a battle to regain it now.
I can't stop to hope that they will as I love this game in quite a bizarre way. It is however in their hands!
Kind regards,
Zathex
DPsx7
3 years ago
I started with BF3. BF4 was great. Hardline was ok, not much a fan of BF 1 and 5. 2042 was the return to BF I wanted until they F'ed it up with the patch. I don't care what anyone 'thinks' it means to be BF, but games are allowed to evolve. This game started off in a good direction. Now after so many drastic alterations I dunno if it can be rescued. One change screws 3 other things going wrong. Vehicles are prioritized over infantry which is awful considering how many are on foot at any given time. Gadget restrictions ruin teamplay and adaptability. Instead of new maps we're getting remakes of launch maps that weren't terrible.
I want the game to go back to where it was. I already waited through 2 duds for a better BF, don't make it 3. Despite having a backlog I enjoyed having a shooter to play occasionally, now I don't.
sk1lld
Legend
3 years ago
Played in a clan in BF1942, preordered it. Rented a server with my clan mates and we had laughs and cry's but always a good time, I have purchased every BF game since then. BF4 was the last true battlefield IMHO. I have barely played any of the games following BF4 everything following it was a downgrade.
What made BF great in my opinion was rock/paper/scissors game play, everything had counters everything had purpose.
BF2 was my favorite, the desert combat team helped make it and it was a tight game. BFBC2 was amazing with its destruction and a fun game and then came BF4 "Even though it's netcode suffered a little" IMHO.
If Battlefield continues down the path it has chosen, I doubt I will be involved. as the last 3 games were not fun IMHO. There is little community involvement in them.
Just an old guy's opinion.
ArchAngeL-PCX
3 years ago
@ZathexGreat post, and I agree completely. It's had it's moments here and there, but I think there's just too much missing or off. So when they change things like Liz's rocket, it unravels for you. Because you still have to overlook no server browser, terrible spawns, bad launch maps that they are trying to rework, matchmaking that consistently drops you into maps you don't want to play, 128 players shoved into maps that should be 64 players max, no vehicles on the map, on and on...

I agree with a lot of the other posts here too:
- 128 players is way too much. As @DigitalHype said, I feel like I'm getting shot from 360 degrees.
- like @Gterror8, I find myself sort of forcing myself to play. Really the only way I can play is to let go of the idea its a Battlfield game, and just play like its COD.
- I agree with @l_Grand_Vizir_l that BF1 was a turning point, and so much of what Battlefield was before has been stripped away with each release.
- As @sk1lld said, I too beleive BF4 to be the last truly great Battlefield. I still play and its a breath of fresh air. BF1 with the WWI theme is actually well done enough it also feels good to play.

Which brings me to a suggestion...maybe you and your friends should start playing the legacy games again, especially if your on PC or Xbox. You play 3 times a week? You could rotate between:
1) BF3
2) BF4
3) BF1

All 3 are alive and well and have enough playing to find games.
Moab23
3 years ago
Played since 1942. Played online since BF2. The game as a whole doesn't really play that much different from previous titles, except its quicker, with better overall movement. The ultimate issue is honestly just player base for me. Its honestly atrocious these days. Teamplay takes a back seat to KDR seekers, and the general feel of play against other people is like a COD game.
There are also WAY too many obvious cheaters. People pulling off suspicious play repeatedly, like when they multikill you 3 or 4 times back to back no matter where you are, with minimal shots, always with a headshot. Or when you shoot a player point blank with the weapon that obliterates you, and they're carrying the one you had earlier when the roles were flipped, and you die instantly to a headshot two separate times in virtually the same way.
2042 is the most frustrating of the series to play overall, because I feel there is so much low level hacking going on that just isn't addressed at all.
TickTack121
3 years ago
@Zathex
I agree with almost everything you said, except for your first point. Here is my opinion to it:
I wouldn't call 128 players a massive battle, especially not with the current playstyle of high mobility, bunny-hopping, running around like chicken and spiderman wingsuit action. If this game would be a massive battle we would be all sitting inside some trenches waiting for artillery or airstrikes to clear the way.
The game needs to be way more tactical, not like a milsim, but it should actually require you to use your head instead of "sundance lmg brrrrrrrr flank grenade boom special effects".