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SaltEngineering's avatar
4 years ago

Dev's Need to Learn From PS3's MAG

There are a lot of people that are complaining about the number of players in a game, vehicles being OP or being demolished instantly, an ungodly number of snipers, and a whole host of other issues.

But that's really not the root of the problem. As an example, I'll point to MAG. It launched on PS3, and lasted until shortly after the release of the PS4... and the kicker is you had modes with 256 players at once. It didn't have issues with player count, or too many of a specific weapon, vehicles, or the fire support abilities. In fact, the biggest issues it faced were unbalanced factions - because you were locked into the one you chose, and the Raven kiddies sucked.

Bigger isn't always better. BF2042's maps are entirely too large. When players are suiciding to respawn somewhere else, there's an issue. They're entirely too open between objectives. MAG's maps were setup so that players were mostly fighting over a handful of objectives at a time, and so that there was always a way to approach or defend the area without you being sniped every time you spawn, or being blown to pieces by rockets or mortars.

And that gave squad leaders (and platoon leaders) purpose. They'd call out objectives - or talk to their team through voice chat - and support their team with calls for smoke, mortar strikes, etc. What purpose does a squad leader have in BF currently? Sure, you can mark an objective. But let's be real. With the current map design an objective is either being mobbed by half the team, or it's a desolate wasteland.

And while we're on a lack of purpose and identity, let me point to the perfect example in the loadouts. The 45-70. The only reason the gun is there is because it was cool in CoD. That's it. It's essentially a DMR with less damage and capacity than the other options. Why? Because it's not even based off a 45-70, it's based off another game's implementation of one, so what you get is a weapon that has no flavor, no purpose, and no reason to use it over anything else. That's a far cry from what current 45-70's are. They're brush guns. Faster than a bolt action, slower than a semi-auto. WAY less range than both, but more maneuverable than both - and capable of killing anything in North America and some of Africa in a single shot. Translated to a game, it's high risk high reward. Hit your shot, get the kill. Miss, you get mowed down by an automatic - cause you'd mainly be using it under 150 yards. Instead of actual flavor like that - it's like all the rest. Headshot = kill. So why gimp yourself on fire rate and magazine capacity? There's literally no reason to use it when there are other better options.

That extends to virtually every other piece of equipment. Throwing out respawn beacons and sensors... why? Almost every objective on the map is only being assaulted by crickets. The other 1 or 2 are swarming with players and vehicles which makes anti-vehicle and c4 the best option. Even if you're just camping a rooftop with the other 20 people sniping.

Which again brings us back to map design. If it didn't take 5 minutes to trek across the map to assault an objective (assuming you aren't wiped out in the open field first), there might actually be a reason to stick around and defend, and set up early warning sensors. Or to flank and setup a respawn beacon. But if you aren't in the one contested objective, you aren't getting XP. You aren't unlocking attachments. You aren't doing anything really. At that point, you're playing a walking simulator or killing yourself to spawn somewhere else.

We had large player count shooters 11 years ago. It was a blast.  Every weapon and item had it's own flavor and purpose. Every map was balanced enough that any weapon could be used where you were and were going. You were never a minute away from the action unless you made the Raven kids rage quit. Even with BF2042's mediocre gunplay, if the devs learned from a handful of things done right in other games, BF2042 would be a better game than it is today.

The problem that needs to be addressed isn't the XP farm servers. It's the design that's the problem. XP farms, like all the other issues, are just a symptom.

7 Replies

  • I absolutely LOVED MAG. But is wasn't until the 2.0 Patch where that game really turned into something special. They fixed progression and unlocks and untethered the Maps from the factions to add variety. I always loved how they did the squad system, where you had a leader that would assign a priority (Like guard this gate or defensive position) then you would get additional bonus points for performing actions within that area. I always wondered why other games didn't steal this. (IE Battlefield)

    really miss MAG.

  • @SaltEngineering 

    Yeah, I loved MAG and thought it had a lot more potential.  Too bad it didn't get the love it needed to stick around and expand.

    It makes me chuckle a bit when I hear devs these days get excited about "128 players".  People seem to forget MAG had 256 players on PS3.  What I really liked was that it felt like a war with smaller battles occurring.  You could get into scraps with others on the way to your own objective and even stop to help help out people on your side if you want to.  It was really cool and although I think it still needed refinement, the foundation was definitely there.  

  • @SaltEngineering I actually think the maps are just poorly laid out. On PS5, there's rarely a flag that isnt contested to the point of congestion. But that's not really the point. Yeah MAG did it right ON PS3 HARDWARE! lol!!! 256 players! A current example is Planetside 2. A lot of MAG players have been on Planetside 2 on PS4/PS5.

    It's all in the purpose and layout of the game. MAG and Planetside 2 are designed first and foremost for large scale warfare with platoons and teamwork. You won't get past the barracks in MAG without teamwork and platoon coordination. You won't successfully assault a base in Planetside 2 without coordination on a level this game doesn't have.

    Battlefield 2042 just basically dumps 128 players into maps not much bigger than the 64 player versions. No real reason but just to up the player count.
  • @ArchAngeL-PCX I mostly agree with you - except my experience with contested points has been different. I've been in a few matches where they'll roll from one point to another or back and forth between the two. Most of the time though, it seems to be one point, or two close to each other, and all the fights are there.

     

    You're spot on with the purpose and layout though. I played a match in Renewal day before yesterday. It had just kicked off, and we took the center point. We were on one side of the objective and were holding it. I went rushing through on an ATV and got blown up. Oops. Respawn at the objective - which had enemy exclusively on their side of the wall, and friendlies inside and on our side of the wall. It respawns me on the enemy side, in the open. Every. Single. Respawn. Why? Why would you respawn people in the open on the enemy side, and in the exact same spot every time? It's understandable to die on spawn if the objective is contested, or swarming with enemies, but it's really not that hard to put a check in and spawn you on a friendly side - or better yet in a location with at least a small amount of cover. Same thing happened up at the two buildings when we held it. Every single respawn for the longest time was outside, in the open, and the opposing team had about three squads of snipers camping.

     

    I'd completely forgotten about Planetside 2, so after you mentioned it I decided to jump back in on a fresh account. The difference is night and day. Even spawning on a vehicle in a very hot area, it never felt unfair. I died when I did something stupid - not just because I hit respawn. That game came out in 2013 - and it looks completely dated - but it was actually fun (even though I was starting over with nothing) and I'll be playing more of it. BF2042 doesn't really have that same fun factor, even though it is prettier, and there are some fun moments

     

    All I can really say is that without some sort of significant overhaul, it's probably going to be my last battlefield, definitely the last EA pre-order I do, and I won't spend a single cent on microtransactions. I think Portal would help out a little - since we could load up old maps - but until you've got the unlocks you want, what's the point? They're more concerned with stopping XP farm servers than making sure players have a good experience.

  • @SaltEngineering MAG did have plenty of balance issues though

    The biggest difference from then to now is that back then there wasn't a million desperate youtubers making videos telling people to only use certain guns or that this or that mechanic was broken.

    People were actually capable of forming their own opinions back then.

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