Forum Discussion

Seasoned Adventurer

3 years ago

Map Design Issues that are Still Present - Verticality and how it can be bad

One of the weakest and most annoying parts of the map design in this game is how vertical points are handled. Especially vertical flags. Overwatch points have always been a major point of frustration...

discussion

Mooselotte

3 years ago

Completely agree with your post.

We seem to have lots of maps that are either primarily flat, or flat with some skyscrapers that allow for some unprecedented movement and force projection. I think part of this is the controllability of the parachute and Sundance kits - earlier BF games had parachutes that were fare less controllable, so you couldn't reliably yeet yourself out of a helicopter and land EXACTLY where you wanted. I also do not think chute cutting and re-using were common in earlier titles like BF4 but may be misremembering.

Now we have people that can make the tactical decision to jump off their nest and land on the enemies flank and stack up a skill-less multi kill. It is "fun" for the person who does it, but is gamebreaking for everyone else as there isn't a sensible way to defend against this.

Fundamentally, we are also missing any maps with lots of medium (2-5) story tall urban buildings, a true urban battlefield environment. I sincerely hope Dice can shake things up and give us less maps that lean so heavily on the "flat plane with sporadic building clusters". We need our grand bazaar, our siege of Shanghai, etc.

Defias123

Seasoned Adventurer

3 years ago

@Mooselotte Agreed. I swear, most of my C5 kills are probably from suicide runs with Sundance. Just fly across a map to a tank. I use the tactic and have it done to me all the time, but its 100% overpowered and a garbage design.

RMEChief
Legend
3 years ago
I have played Orbital quite a bit and have never seen that as an issue. Most of the time there are a few snipers up there that get shredded by a helo, who then caps the point, and then the other team does the same thing. For Orbital, there are two tall structures, at A1 and C2, that provide basically the same thing in terms of LOS. The difference is one is an objective at the top and the other one isn't.
I don't think verticality is the issue. Maybe flag placement, spawn locations, Specialist's abilities, or call-ins on rooftops, but I don't think having elevation in the game is a bad thing. Otherwise, you are essentially playing Doom.
I don't like the call-ins on buildings, and flag placements and spawn points could be a little bit more even in some cases, but for the most part, there seems to be a lot of other issues to address in this game before something like this is even considered. That's just my opinion.
- Mooselotte
  3 years ago
  @Adamonic I don’t know if the OP is even calling for any changes in their post (tbh, I didn’t reread in full today), but I think they are more highlighting a flaw in Dice’s approach to map design.
  And I agree honestly, I think there’s some serious effects on map flow when one team can spawn and BASE jump into the enemy’s point.
  On Orbital its biggest effect is on the B1 and B2 points IMO. You will be fighting off a never ending supply of parachuting enemies, or snipers deploying into the hills around you with ease.
  
  You are right though, there is lots for them to address in this game. I just hope they change up their map design in future titles a bit.
  - Defias123
    Seasoned Adventurer
    3 years ago
    @Mooselotte Yeah like the big thing is ok, you can have these points. But the other side of the map should have one of equal power for the other team. The thing that actually made me make this post finally was just before it, I was playing Orbital. Me and 3 others fought 3 infantry + 2 tanks while taking B1. Finally taking it. Right after that, they all spawned ontop of the building and poured over like a wave. The travel time from spawn to enemy capture point was so small, they minus well had been spawning next to it. We lasted a few mins but loss it again. Only way we could've countered that was we would've had to run over to their building, zipline up, then contest the point. Forcing them to spawn on the bottom instead of the roof.
    
    I think if they were to implement a solution, it would be something like moving the flag to the bottom floor. No spawn points on the roof, no flags on the roof. Would produce much better gameplay loops. Roof would still be there, but at least the flag owners would have to walk a bit and use the zipline to get up. And if you're camping up there, you're not defending the flag point "as well".
    
    I doubt any sorta of rework that results in removing these points is remotely close to on the table. They're probably not gonna touch the maps again after season 5 final rework. Heck, they'll probably announced the next Battlefield towards the end of the year haha.