Network Manipulation
This is my attempt at getting some answers from Dice on this topic. I've tried to start a similar thread, but I don't think that it was direct enough. Please support this thread if you're experienci...
Forum Discussion
@RaginSam wrote:
@DaMutha1 wrote:Not to rain on your QAnon, but they couldn't even pull off double XP a couple weeks ago, and you think they are doing sophisticated network manipulation? I don't think so. By far the more likely scenario is that they have not properly optimized the crossplay, so it's a hot mess.
Well you're not a Dice developer, so you didn't rain on anything.
Did you read my entire post? That's a bit unfair don't you think to call me a conspiracy theorist? I did mention that these aren't facts, just theories and that I'm completely open to a developer informing me of how things actually work. I'll accept that answer.
I do have a lot of experience playing this game with around 2k hours in BF2042 alone. It's near impossible to win a 1v1 in CQC against a Console player in this game. You can check my stats, but I have about a 6.5 KD against human players. I must be doing something right? Yet, every encounter with a Console player, my death is unnaturally instant. How does everyone have the same connection? Every PC player that I play with feel the same way. It's always this instant, one frame death.
It could just be bad networking, and Battlefield has a history with previous games having the same issue. No Battlefield game has felt perfect by any means. With the introduction of Corssplay however, it just feels noticeably worse.
If you understand how the networking and hit reg work in this game, feel free to share and explain it to me.
I would say there is nothing "special" built-in, it is just how they built the crossplay to work.
Essentially, if aim assist is enabled, for simplicity's sake, once you are hit with the first shot, you are basically dead, but because there is an extra step in the process on the console side, the non-aim assist player has to "wait" for the update. Since their last update, they have already died, so it feels like it is instant. You died on the server a few updates ago, but your client had to wait for the aim-assist update which is a tick behind (extra step). The shots will come in bundled because of the time nudge and it seems that right when you were visible, you died.
Try this, create a portal server with bots on max difficulty and let me know if your deaths feel similar. They should because the same thing is at work with the bots on the server side assists.
Another way to put it, with a very basic example. It doesn't work exactly like this because you have client data going out, the server receiving the data, then sending updates back to the clients, rinse and repeat.
TTK for weapon is 200ms, 5 shots to kill, 50ms RoF.
Server Tick rate is 22.2ms (45Hz)
First shot hits at 0, 2nd shot hits at 66.6ms, because that was the first update after 50ms. So now you won't get the 3rd shot until 111ms, 4th shot hits at 155.4ms, and kill shot hits at 222ms even though on the client it occurred at 200ms. Does that make sense so far? Server Ticks of 0, 3, 2, 2, 3.
So that is for PC (or Console w/o AA), the server has to verify every shot hit. So even though the weapon you are using has a theoretical TTK of 200ms based on RoF and damage, you won't kill anyone until at least 222ms. This is also dependent on your ping and the time nudge, so at best 222ms, but likely greater.
Now for console, with AA enabled, the server is assisting with the hits (basically counting them based solely on the weapon's damage and RoF), so there is no need to "check" to see what the client did like on PC, so at the server, the other player is dead at 200ms and the non-AA player's kill shot doesn't hit the server until at least 222ms.
The non-AA player gets the death notice at 222ms that they died at 200ms, and more than likely gets two bullets instantly hit at once with what feels like an extremely high RoF insta-death.
Those are bundled shots because of the absurd 45Hz server tick rate, 2 shots (or more) may fall in between updates, and on the distant end you get all those updates at once. I think the K30 can fit 3-4 shots in between some updates (ridiculous).
45Hz is criminal with the speed of the players, vehicles, and RoF of most weapons. That is what you are feeling.
@AdamonicDude that’s an awesome explanation, thanks for that spotlight.
@RaginSam, we’ve played together and I think you know where I’m coming from. I wanted to say that you shared a theory, and it would involve a conspiracy on the part of Dice and / or EA… so technically it’s a conspiracy theory. You’re coming from a place of trying to gain knowledge so I don’t think you’re offside in any way, but technically you’re a conspiracy theorist on this topic 😉 Just own it buddy. Crossplay has been a blight on the games since release, and I don’t expect any improvement, especially based on the info Adamonic shared (which sounds logical to me). It’s broken and I don’t expect a repair.
@RaginSam, we’ve played together and I think you know where I’m coming from. I wanted to say that you shared a theory, and it would involve a conspiracy on the part of Dice and / or EA… so technically it’s a conspiracy theory. You’re coming from a place of trying to gain knowledge so I don’t think you’re offside in any way, but technically you’re a conspiracy theorist on this topic 😉 Just own it buddy. Crossplay has been a blight on the games since release, and I don’t expect any improvement, especially based on the info Adamonic shared (which sounds logical to me). It’s broken and I don’t expect a repair.
Aim assist isn't server side.
Console players connect to the internet with wifi which causes ping time fluctuations. Battle(Non)Sense did a video showing ping time fluctuations cause bundled bullet damage and cuts the time to death in half.
Console players also have 25% less recoil which also translates into less bullet spread. This means less bullets miss the target.
I believe these are the two big reasons console players insta-kill people and appear laggy.
Not to mention that lag compensation tries to make everything 'fair' by delaying the network packets of low ping players so high ping players have a 'fighting chance' against low ping players.
- @OskooI_007 That's kinda what I'm getting at too, how does the lag compensation and all that work? I still have a hard time believing every Console player is using Wifi, and that it fluctuates at not only the right time, but in the same way for every player.
I love Battle Non Sense's videos, but I don't recall him making one for BF2042 specifically. Each game is different. Maybe I'll go back and watch a BFV one if he's got one on that and see if I can learn something new.
To reiterate, it's not just the quick instant deaths. It's that fact they don't seem to register damage correctly. It really does feel like they're playing on a different time line. I don't know how else to explain it.
The server doesn't always update your damage right away. Like I'll peek a player, hit them with 10 bullets, and I can hear the head shot sounds, go back into cover, then I'll get the feed that I killed them. Happens quite a bit. So it's like a buffer, checking to make sure I hit those shots and then the server confirming that player was in fact killed. There's at times a 1-2 second delay when it's checking.
The problem with 1v1's is that it feels like the server is taking a longer time to check my shots versus the other player. I'm watching a hallway, an enemy walks in, I start shooting first while landing my shots, they then react and shoot back, if they can land shots before the server checks my shots, they win. Like there's a buffer or something if that makes sense?
@AngrySquid270 wrote:Aim assist isn't server side.
Is mouse input server side? Did you they did a server-side "fix" for mouse input? Can you explain that?
There is something completely bassackwards with this game. For whatever reason, almost match to match, I can feel a tangible difference, yet nothing has changed on my end. There is a lot more server-side stuff going on, and it's because of crossplay.- @Adamonic Hi - what region are you in ? I play on Europe servers and I know for fact that Asia / India use vpn to get into Europe servers. They say Asia servers suck reason why they go for Europe servers. Though killing the experience for the rest of us.
Regarding cross-play - try to turn it off (I know it can be hard to then find games) - and compare on vs off.
- @ATFGunr It technically is, but I mean is really that far fetched? Console players get all these different assist, why not just do something were they get a few extra milliseconds for reaction time? Qanon is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to conspiracy theories. I feel like that was a cheap shot and a lazy response to what I feel like was a reasonable thread.
Do you not agree something is way off? There's other threads about how Crossplay sucks and Time to death is broken. We haven't gotten any real clear answers to anything. Just, we "fixed it" in this upcoming patch BS.
Only Dice knows the answer, this was my stupid attempt at trying to get a bit of support to put a tiny little pressure on them, but I should've known better being on these forums for so long now. It's pointless.- @RaginSamI could not play this game and not agree with you that something is off. It’s been off since day one. They improve it for a period and then break it again. I blame the 45 hz servers, the high ping compensation, and how crossplay works in general. The TTK does seem faster for consoles, although I have experienced insta kills and packet bullet hits from PC players as well. @Oskool_007 pointed out, there are additional factors too.
@AngrySquid270, he’s not talking about aim assist, he’s talking about server side network manipulation to provide console players an advantage against PC players. I know you’re angry (it’s in your name), we get it. What’s your TTD feel like against PC players and console players? Would be great to get feedback from the console side of the game. What does it feel like for you?
For me my game physically lags out, I can see a bump in the time nudge, and I get wracked by a burst and I’m dead. If it wasn’t for the kill cam, I’d be wondering wtf just happened. We’re discussing that aspect of 2042. I can’t explain it. If Dice came out and said they manipulated the game to achieve that affect, I wouldn’t be surprised. If they denied and showed other reasons, I’d be open to that too. Of course what will surprise me most is if anyone with authority comments at all, I don’t expect it. As usual, it’ll just be us frustrated gamers wondering how it could all go so wrong.I like good conspiracy theories.
Featured Places
