Just tried Rao for the first time to try it out vs the constant helo harrass on Exposure and omg the hacking of Rao is the dumbest thing I have seen as a specialist. It's so easy, has a short cooldown and a single person can shut down so much it's insane.And at the same time he is so boring to play, no reward for hacking at all apart from just being annoying with very little effort.Emphasis on annoying cuz that's just what it is, video games with excessive shut down mechanics are so annoying to play. You are helpless against it, same with vehicle disables, it's completly random normally nobody ever aims for a specific vehicle disable people just hit whatever seems the easiest to hit. And you get punished so hard for it.Noticed more people using Rao because of the stealth helo so wanted to try it out and my opinion, it just has no place in this game.

The gamer's mentality: If I don't like something then let's remove it because there is no way someone else will like it!

@doubleome Because DICE wants to promote co-op play without actually having systems in the game to promote co-op play, hoping folks will just do it organically.Rao CAN be insanely strong with a coordinated group in terms of eliminating vehicles, and even solo can be effective at "area denial" for vehicles if he can find a remotely safe place to hack from. But to your point...playing "area denial" on Rao is like watching paint dry. It's boring and lame, even if you're running the M5/Stinger to try to combo vehicles, or C5 to try to blow up ground vehicles you can get close to (hoping that the passengers all stop thinking and nobody exits the hacked vehicle to simply shoot you).This is a problem for many of the specialists. Some like Mackay, Falk, Sundance, or even Dozer have "generally useful" kits that work in a wide range of situations. Others like Rao, and as the devs pointed out Irish, have far more "niche" roles for their toolkits - driven in part by challenge completion (seriously, needing to destroy grenades to progress Irish feels like trash compared to how "easy" other characters progression tracks are like healing people as Falck).Honestly I think the whole vehicle design at its core, both ground and especially air, is fundamentally flawed and that we're never going to get a "good feeling" game that has any semblance of balance between that design and how specialists operate.If people aren't picking a specialists, it's not because they don't know how to use the specialist in all instances as the devs implied on their 1.2 video. It's because many of those specialists are too niche, and in a game where the majority of the design is focused on supporting solo-play these characters that are inherently co-op oriented and whose kits don't lend to solo play will see less playtime in general.DICE has always struggled with balance, and I'm still mystified why they thought that taking the already tricky balance they struggled to maintain and adding an Everest-size mountain of complexity with specialists was a good idea. Sure the concept is nice and all, but it should have been clear very early that the direction was not going to lend itself to an overall positive experience, and would instead just eat up a massive amount of additional development time towards frequently tweaking, balancing, updating, and changing specialist kits that aren't performing in-line with expectations.

because a skilled Rao player can be a nightmare for vehicles. you don't like him that's fine, but that's no reason to remove content from the game. if you don't like him just don't pick him

@PsubondThere's an argument to be made that his kit is boring and super binary vs. the more dynamic interactions from other specialists toolkits.Think Sundance: They've (DICE I REMEMBER THEIR PRONOUNS EVEN IF YOU DON'T : P) got huge flexibility in mobility with the wingsuit, plus either some infantry area-denial or a bit of anti-vehicle with the grenade. Each has a ton of possible uses and outcomes based on how the player uses those skills. There's lots of aggressive plays that you can make as Sundance with either the wingsuit or grenades! Lots of safe plays you can make! Lots of options!Now think to Rao: He's got the "spot players that shoot him" mechanic which is actually generally useful even if you're getting instantly killed. It's a free spot!But his hacking is extremely binary and doesn't really have much nuance/variety. Hold hack button for a few seconds and you're done. Vehicle has temporary protection from further hacks for a bit. There's no real vehicle counterplay to the hack, no ability to get aggressive/riskier to repeatedly hack a single vehicle at great risk to yourself.I think OP is more getting at that Rao simply isn't fun to play, even solo. Sure he fills the niche he's design to, but it's filled in an incredibly boring way for the Rao player and a frustrating way for the vehicle player. There's not really a depth of interactions with Rao that exists with other specialists, it's a binary.

@CantGetRight The gamers mentality: don’t remove something that’s annoying and that I personally abuse. It’s fine because I enjoy it.Hacking, freezing, taking away mobility and a way to defend yourself is always the worst design choice in games. It is boring to stare up into the sky locking onto targets and hacking them. It feels awful being hacked especially in tank when they’re already slow and everyone carries rockets.I completely agree with the OP. It was a bad design choice.

Played Rao for the first time, why is he still in the game?

55 Replies

edgecrusherO0
4 years ago
@doubleome Because DICE wants to promote co-op play without actually having systems in the game to promote co-op play, hoping folks will just do it organically.

Rao CAN be insanely strong with a coordinated group in terms of eliminating vehicles, and even solo can be effective at "area denial" for vehicles if he can find a remotely safe place to hack from. But to your point...playing "area denial" on Rao is like watching paint dry. It's boring and lame, even if you're running the M5/Stinger to try to combo vehicles, or C5 to try to blow up ground vehicles you can get close to (hoping that the passengers all stop thinking and nobody exits the hacked vehicle to simply shoot you).

This is a problem for many of the specialists. Some like Mackay, Falk, Sundance, or even Dozer have "generally useful" kits that work in a wide range of situations. Others like Rao, and as the devs pointed out Irish, have far more "niche" roles for their toolkits - driven in part by challenge completion (seriously, needing to destroy grenades to progress Irish feels like trash compared to how "easy" other characters progression tracks are like healing people as Falck).

Honestly I think the whole vehicle design at its core, both ground and especially air, is fundamentally flawed and that we're never going to get a "good feeling" game that has any semblance of balance between that design and how specialists operate.

If people aren't picking a specialists, it's not because they don't know how to use the specialist in all instances as the devs implied on their 1.2 video. It's because many of those specialists are too niche, and in a game where the majority of the design is focused on supporting solo-play these characters that are inherently co-op oriented and whose kits don't lend to solo play will see less playtime in general.

DICE has always struggled with balance, and I'm still mystified why they thought that taking the already tricky balance they struggled to maintain and adding an Everest-size mountain of complexity with specialists was a good idea. Sure the concept is nice and all, but it should have been clear very early that the direction was not going to lend itself to an overall positive experience, and would instead just eat up a massive amount of additional development time towards frequently tweaking, balancing, updating, and changing specialist kits that aren't performing in-line with expectations.
Psubond
Legend
4 years ago
because a skilled Rao player can be a nightmare for vehicles. you don't like him that's fine, but that's no reason to remove content from the game. if you don't like him just don't pick him
CantGetRight
4 years ago
The gamer's mentality: If I don't like something then let's remove it because there is no way someone else will like it!
edgecrusherO0
4 years ago
@PsubondThere's an argument to be made that his kit is boring and super binary vs. the more dynamic interactions from other specialists toolkits.

Think Sundance: They've (DICE I REMEMBER THEIR PRONOUNS EVEN IF YOU DON'T : P) got huge flexibility in mobility with the wingsuit, plus either some infantry area-denial or a bit of anti-vehicle with the grenade. Each has a ton of possible uses and outcomes based on how the player uses those skills. There's lots of aggressive plays that you can make as Sundance with either the wingsuit or grenades! Lots of safe plays you can make! Lots of options!

Now think to Rao: He's got the "spot players that shoot him" mechanic which is actually generally useful even if you're getting instantly killed. It's a free spot!

But his hacking is extremely binary and doesn't really have much nuance/variety. Hold hack button for a few seconds and you're done. Vehicle has temporary protection from further hacks for a bit. There's no real vehicle counterplay to the hack, no ability to get aggressive/riskier to repeatedly hack a single vehicle at great risk to yourself.

I think OP is more getting at that Rao simply isn't fun to play, even solo. Sure he fills the niche he's design to, but it's filled in an incredibly boring way for the Rao player and a frustrating way for the vehicle player. There's not really a depth of interactions with Rao that exists with other specialists, it's a binary.
mrtwotimes
4 years ago
Hax rule
CloverDeuce
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
because...
RaginSam
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@CantGetRight The gamers mentality: don’t remove something that’s annoying and that I personally abuse. It’s fine because I enjoy it.

Hacking, freezing, taking away mobility and a way to defend yourself is always the worst design choice in games. It is boring to stare up into the sky locking onto targets and hacking them. It feels awful being hacked especially in tank when they’re already slow and everyone carries rockets.

I completely agree with the OP. It was a bad design choice.
TTZ_Dipsy
Hero+
4 years ago
I've never found Rao to be any good - the hack leaves him exposed and vehicles can still just drive/fly away normally
RaginSam
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@edgecrusherO0 wrote:
@doubleomeBecause DICE wants to promote co-op play without actually having systems in the game to promote co-op play, hoping folks will just do it organically.

Rao CAN be insanely strong with a coordinated group in terms of eliminating vehicles, and even solo can be effective at "area denial" for vehicles if he can find a remotely safe place to hack from. But to your point...playing "area denial" on Rao is like watching paint dry. It's boring and lame, even if you're running the M5/Stinger to try to combo vehicles, or C5 to try to blow up ground vehicles you can get close to (hoping that the passengers all stop thinking and nobody exits the hacked vehicle to simply shoot you).

This is a problem for many of the specialists. Some like Mackay, Falk, Sundance, or even Dozer have "generally useful" kits that work in a wide range of situations. Others like Rao, and as the devs pointed out Irish, have far more "niche" roles for their toolkits - driven in part by challenge completion (seriously, needing to destroy grenades to progress Irish feels like trash compared to how "easy" other characters progression tracks are like healing people as Falck).

Honestly I think the whole vehicle design at its core, both ground and especially air, is fundamentally flawed and that we're never going to get a "good feeling" game that has any semblance of balance between that design and how specialists operate.

If people aren't picking a specialists, it's not because they don't know how to use the specialist in all instances as the devs implied on their 1.2 video. It's because many of those specialists are too niche, and in a game where the majority of the design is focused on supporting solo-play these characters that are inherently co-op oriented and whose kits don't lend to solo play will see less playtime in general.

DICE has always struggled with balance, and I'm still mystified why they thought that taking the already tricky balance they struggled to maintain and adding an Everest-size mountain of complexity with specialists was a good idea. Sure the concept is nice and all, but it should have been clear very early that the direction was not going to lend itself to an overall positive experience, and would instead just eat up a massive amount of additional development time towards frequently tweaking, balancing, updating, and changing specialist kits that aren't performing in-line with expectations.
Good points. I exclusively run gadgets and specialist that feel the most rounded in most situations. I’ll switch around, but what usually happens is that I needed a different kit a minute ago and the enemy already died or moved to a different objective.
edgecrusherO0
4 years ago
@RaginSam Yeah, by the time you respawn, if you can even respawn in the same area you died, the need for a niche specialist like Rao is often over so you've swapped to a character with basically no real utility until you die and pick another specialist or happen to run across another vehicle.