Re: Attack helicopters and Jet on Breakthrough?

---

@Kyp3aDICE wrote:
@RickLionsHeart42lol you are really complaining about attack hellys? Let's count something.
1. Wildcat  Pro not instant kill
2. Ram  Pro not instant kill
3. TOR  Meh
4. Rao  Requires teamwork this does not destroy
5. AA missile  Need 4 easily avoided by decent pilot
6. Recoiless M5 (including sofam)  Need 4 easily avoided by decent pilot
7. Railgun Pro
8. Irish sentinel Highly situational
9. Sundance Anti-armor meh
10. Normal tanks Pro not instant kill
11. MAV Pro not instant kill
12. Transport Helicopters Pro not instant kill
13. LATV Recon 40m canon Pro not instant kill
14. Casper drone Bad
15. Bolte rockets Pro
16. Lis TV missile Cannot destroy a vehicle without team work
So that's list of 16 counters that can kill or disable attack helicopters. I doesn't count attack helicopters on your team, which are also counter for enemy helicopters. So this is list of total 17!!! counters to attack helicopters, which mean you are too damn lazy to pick one of them and kill that helicopter which killed you once...
that's just pathetic...

---

There are some things about your list you leave out

1.   Most of what you list is marginal at best
2.   The armor vehicles that can destroy air, target infantry because KD and points on scoreboard make them look better then they are.
3.   The air vehicles that can destroy air, target infantry because KD and points on scoreboard make them look better then they are.
4.   The armor vehicles that can destroy armor, target infantry because KD and points on scoreboard make them look better then they are.
5.   The airvehicles that can destroy armor, target infantry because KD and points on scoreboard make them look better then they are.

Until the scoreboard treats vehicle destruction as valuable as infantry kills, people will not play them properly.   Most pilots farm infantry and ignore vehicles.   People play to see their names at the top of the board, not to win.

@RickLionsHeartTV yep my fault, I didn't see quotes correctly. I wanted to quote @Psubond

@Padding_Ur_StatsYou know that Battlefield is team-bases game right? It have squads and 31 more teammates. And seriously look at your points now:
Lis missile requires teamwork? Don't make me laught.
You didn't play Vs controller with aim assist with Transports, Tanks and LATV doesn't you?
Railgun pro? You have to be joking 😅 with literally 0 bullets drop...
Recoiless is one shot, not four. AA is two shots not four too....
TOR meh? Really...
Ram and wildcat pro??? With wildcat you just need to spawn and don't move from your spawn point. 30mm have that ridiculous range, that they hit from US to RU spawn on every Breakthrough map. Only job you have with wildcat is this to stay in your side of map and enemy cannot fly. If you want to move forward you can take Irish and deploy sentinel for extra protection. Believe me as 200+ wildcat mastery player, with last buff on 30mm and AA missile range, you can't be killed by attack helicopters. RAM is little harder I agree with that.
All other ridiculous points that you write can be done easy with two-three-four people, exactly the size of every squad.
And as I write, you don't have to kill helicopters to stop them. Disable them works too, but you didn't play with Rao once to know that right?
You are probably from that players who doesn't give a sht about squads, searching flanks all the time with Mackay and Sundance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but be honest.

---

@Padding_Ur_StatsYou know that Battlefield is team-bases game right? It have squads and 31 more teammates. And seriously look at your points now:

Lis missile requires teamwork? Don't make me laught.  It is virtually impossible for Lis to single handedly destroy a tank.  The vehicles regen is more health then her missile.  The cooldown between missile 2 and 3 is 20 seconds.   You regen more health.   If Lis is destroying your vehicle, someone else hit it.  Lis alone is not effective vehicle destruction.  If you got hit in your 2 seater, try moving.  You are faster, more agile, and can outrange Lis easily.   I will say, after T1ing Lis, I did learn how most bug pilots fly, and I was able to position my missile more effectively.  But that being said,  youre talking about 1-10 to about 2.65 in 10 shots.

You didn't play Vs controller with aim assist with Transports, Tanks and LATV doesn't you?  M&K

Railgun pro? You have to be joking 😅 with literally 0 bullets drop...   Hence it is highly effective, which is what my Pro statement means, if it hits.   For a railgun to hit air in motion, is not easy.  However, if youre one of those crappy pilots hovering in place farming, eat rail.   

Recoiless is one shot, not four.  I will amend my statement.  For the 2 seaters, yes 1 shot.  Bigger birds and armor, No.   AND!!! if the recoiless is hitting your little bird, try moving.  It is not a tracking weapon.  If they are hitting you flying and moving, you got taken by a highly skilled player.   

AA is two shots not four too.... Again, semi decent pilots can avoid an AA.  These are low percentage kills.  Learn to use obstruction.

TOR meh? Really...  Really

Ram and wildcat pro??? With wildcat you just need to spawn and don't move from your spawn point. 30mm have that ridiculous range, that they hit from US to RU spawn on every Breakthrough map. Only job you have with wildcat is this to stay in your side of map and enemy cannot fly. If you want to move forward you can take Irish and deploy sentinel for extra protection. Believe me as 200+ wildcat mastery player, with last buff on 30mm and AA missile range, you can't be killed by attack helicopters. RAM is little harder I agree with that.   I think you're misunderstanding my Pro statement.  These vehicles are built to down air.

All other ridiculous points that you write can be done easy with two-three-four people, exactly the size of every squad. 
And as I write, you don't have to kill helicopters to stop them. Disable them works too, but you didn't play with Rao once to know that right?
You are probably from that players who doesn't give a sht about squads, searching flanks all the time with Mackay and Sundance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but be honest.

I have T1d Rao and Lis.   Sorry to burst your bubble.  

You're whining about teamwork. the very design of these games.  The list is all the things that can damage air, agreed.  That does not mean the whole list is effective.  There are just a couple things air really had to worry about.   Good pilots avoid the greater majority of the list. 

Air farms 75-100 kills a game solo, but takes multiples to destroy them.   If air is whining that teamwork needs to be nerfed, then the pilots lack the basic understanding of the game.  Air does not mean Always Invulnerable Reaper, although it seems like they are and the pilots seem to think that is the acronym.   Instead of nerfing teamwork, how about we nerf a solo item that farms 75-100 kills a game?  Is air OP.   Many think so.   Air has always dominated, but it also always had checks.   There are few effective checks in 2042.  Effective being the keyword. 

Any pilot who remains motionless is a kill waiting to happen.  The maps are littered with them.   Moving decreases the chance of destruction exponentially.   When I pilot armor, I dont remain still, and I dont die (sans a SOFLAM effect.  Even then I dodge the missiles most of the time)

All this being regurgitated, my original point remains in my original response.  Air was more interested in scoreboard kills then being the Rock to the Scissors on the board.   In condensed maps like breakthrough, rush, they are too imbalanced.  Had pilots targeted armor instead of being played like Always Invulnerable Reapers, they may have remained on board.

---

---

@RickLionsHeart42 wrote:

but u can pick Rao, and keep the choppers away, if u can play as u want, as medic curing yourself or as sniper far far way, why people who loves vehicles should play as infantery players want?

it is not fair with the number of options to defend yourself

---

they are removing the ability for rao to do anything about helos.  he can hack but not attack them after the specailist class update.

i am happy that stealth helos are gone from breakthrough.  it is my perogative to be happy about it and say thank you to the devs for doing it

@Padding_Ur_StatsWho is talking about destroying tanks and transport helicopters? Why you try to change topic. It's all about attack helicopters on Breakthrough.
70-100 kills streaks are impossible if only one person (who know what to do) from enemy team decide to kill or disable that attack helicopter. I can't believe that player with T1 Rao and Lis have thoughts like this. Especially with Lis T1 ...
And btw I'm more wildcat enjoyer that pilot.
Here is simple solution to this crappy situation. It should be something like BF4:
Tanks effective against jets, jets effective ONLY against helicopters(remove AG rockets from jets if necessary, or remove them only in breakthrough), helicopters effective against tanks. It's not that hard, or stupid like removing them from Breakthrough.

p.s. you can always go and play rush, which is almost same like breakthrough, but without attack helicopters and way too less vehicles.

@Psubond 

The stealth heli is why I quit playing Breakthrough, it was so infuriating to have them fly up out of AA range, just hover over capture points and rain down bombs while being completely immune to any form of counterattack.

I've just now started playing it again.

@PsubondWell we will see on next patch with altitude changes how it feels. If it's still problem remove stealths only, not two categories of vehicles, because dice can't balance their own creation. Nightbird and Jets are now punished, because people think that vehicle from their categorie are too OP.
One again, pathetic decision.

---

@Ironhead841 wrote:

@Psubond 

The stealth heli is why I quit playing Breakthrough, it was so infuriating to have them fly up out of AA range, just hover over capture points and rain down bombs while being completely immune to any form of counterattack.

I've just now started playing it again.

---

100% this, the Stealth Heli is pretty much invincible in such situations and can kill the fun factor.

i saw a littlebird on manifest breakthrough so they are back in breakthrough (at least on that map)

---

@Kyp3aDICE wrote:
@Psubond
I don't think so. There is one Nightbird in manifest and everyone can go and get her if they know where she is. She's with AP rockets, mini-guns and flares, no quick repair.

---

Ah, i just saw it flying around.  Didn't know the details 

@BrokenHumanTeeth
Nightbird is no longer in Manifest after rework.
I have a question for DEV's.
What can people do when defenders especially on Manifest, calls in vehicles on the top of the mountain, deploy couple of Irish sentinels and farm whole attacking team on their spawn? Top of the mountain is ofcourse out of combat area for attacking team.
So @Straatford87 how can we deal with this vehicle campers without attack helicopters?

The new map is good without helicopters but really, when I playing BT now  I feel this mode loose his soul

Breakthrough is really no fun without heli.

---

@shanatak wrote:

The new map is good without helicopters but really, when I playing BT now  I feel this mode loose his soul

 

Breakthrough is really no fun without heli.

---

Im enjoying it.  Stealth helo is horribly balanced and has no place in this game.  Thankfully it has been banished to conquest and i dont have to worry about it

Just 1 shot a bug pilot with a M5 yesterday.   LOLz

Keep hovering and not moving people.  Youre just allowing me to T1 my recoil faster.

---

@Psubond wrote:

---

@shanatak wrote:

The new map is good without helicopters but really, when I playing BT now  I feel this mode loose his soul

 

Breakthrough is really no fun without heli.

---

Im enjoying it.  Stealth helo is horribly balanced and has no place in this game.  Thankfully it has been banished to conquest and i dont have to worry about it

---

If I had my way it would be banished from Conquest too. 😁

I am not even that into piloting but the lack of attack aircraft in Breakthrough is making the Breakthrough even more removed from the BF1 Operations that it is derived from.

Can we at least get breakthrough in portal?

As for helis just balance them to require more skill.

Remove anti air lock-ons from all of them. By removing those, you created a need for fair 1v1s which are fun and rewarding, while also making helis unable to focus on infantry.

On stealth, tone down splash damage of the bombs, and make them more orianted to anti-vehicle role. Maybe like a JDAM or something. Maybe make it so the lis doesnt one shot it but puts its at 10% health.

On Littlebird remove rocket pods and 25mm, with those changes you can make it high-skill vehicle while also removing iritating rockets for the infantry.

Apache and Hokum should get their gunners fire rate buffed and thats about it. Its currently weakest of the 3 and should be made a powerhouse when played with a friend.