Re: Nightbird's miniguns are FAR too effective against Jets (and attack choppers)

Yeah, there is a reason that the NB is jokingly called a flying AA tank

@Metal_Daryl97

Tell me about it :D

Those wretched nightbirds are so small that it is really hard to land a hit on them with the main guns, so many times the only way to even threaten them is to sacrifice the AGMs for radar missiles.

Meanwhile the jet has a large enough model to be an easy target for the twin miniguns of the nightbird.

By the way. A 25mm General Dynamics GAU-22/A Equalizer autocannon should had been a lot more devastating than 2x 7.62mm miniguns vs a vehicle.

Your aim was pretty bad and you mostly tried to evade by a harsh pitch up/down which shows more of your body.

Cannons can definitely rip a Nightbird apart but those are more effective against other jets when you're both looping - I've always found rockets to be better for whirlybirds since the flare recharge is fairly long

@Padding_Ur_Stats

I remember you from the lis tgm nerf threads - I maintain my position, Lis missile nerf was warranted. You obviously don't fix vehicle-vehicle imbalance by trying to change the infantry-vehicle balance. I actually pointed out the bad nightbird-vs-jet balance long before the whole Lis situation, it's been a issue for a long long time 

@TTZ_Dipsy

My aim is far from perfect but it's not as bad as you're suggesting - I can easily deal significant damage to aircraft other than dancing nightbirds with the 25mm  (and even 30mm) cannon (despite using a controller to aim - no aim assist for vehicles). Even someone with insane aim like SILK mentioned a couple of times how hard it is to be effective vs nightbirds using the 25mm cannon alone. I'd like to to see you do significant damage to those dancing nightbirds with the 25mm.

I've tried different "evasive maneuvers" to highlight that the nightbird can deal considerable damage in all cases. In the very first clip, I didn't pitch up or down and yet the nightbird dealt 95% damage to my jet. If you just fly straight in an attempt to limit the exposed surface area of your jet, the nightbird can simply quickly gain some altitude to counter this (more of jet's surface exposed again). 

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats

I remember you from the lis tgm nerf threads - I maintain my position, Lis missile nerf was warranted.

I disagree.  The success percentage of a Lis destroying any vehicle was 10%.  That is not a warranted success ratio.  As a pilot, you dont experience the misses so you lack the perception of what is warranted.  I T1d Lis when the only way to get credit was with the destructive blow.   I had no issue with the range nerf.  The agility nerf makes the TGM no better then the Recoil.

You obviously don't fix vehicle-vehicle imbalance by trying to change the infantry-vehicle balance.

Correct.  You fix infantry-vehicle balance that way.   Pilots scream imbalance when they die twice.  There wasnt an imbalance with infantry/vehicle, yet you all screamed, whined and lied to eviscerate infantry from having any chance to fight back.   Ever notice that when the missions are heavily weighted to heals and revives, that vehicles dont get destroyed?   Yeah, balance.   

I actually pointed out the bad nightbird-vs-jet balance long before the whole Lis situation, it's been a issue for a long long time 

You will pardon me if I don't accept your measures of balance.   Pilots believe they should be indestructible without weapon cooldowns to farm infantry.  Yes, this has been stated by a pilot on these boards.   Pilots want EZMode.   Even DICE acknowledges the lack of skill pilots have.  I made my last post because I foresaw the pilots whining about someone killing them, and here you are.

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@Padding_Ur_Stats

Irrelevant. Please go cry about lissiles in the relevant threads. I now exclusively use Lis when piloting because of how effective the TGM is against aircraft. 

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats

Irrelevant. Please go cry about lissiles in the relevant threads. I now exclusively use Lis when piloting because of how effective the TGM is against aircraft. 

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ROFLMFHAO

Like I said, Lies

Next to the miniguns, I'd like to point to the UFO-like physics.

https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield2042/comments/135bcs7/most_targeted_pilot_in_battlefield/?sort=new

Why on earth Liz was nerfed and Nightbird stayed the same beats me. Especially console players got shafted with the Liz missile turnnerf.

@Wargame_Enj0yer

I agree with you that the TGM is tricky to use against nightbirds (specifically). But you should realise that by buffing the TGM, you might make it adequately powerful against nightbirds but then it would inevitably end up being overpowered against every single other vehicle. Instead the correct way to deal with the aforementioned issue is to fix the nightbird-vs-othet aircraft imbalance - this fix will also definitely limit infantry farming by nightbirds. 

@Wargame_Enj0yerBecause it was impossible to play. 80seconds of penalty vs 5. And best way to drop nb is element of surprise. Anyways, last week was good example of Lizz power, as nb main, I got dropped very often. And the best part, barely any S rank users, most were low rankers.

Edit: And desync is too big, I have few very great clips. 

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats

Irrelevant. Please go cry about lissiles in the relevant threads. I now exclusively use Lis when piloting because of how effective the TGM is against aircraft. 

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It is not a case of the Lissile being particularly effective vs aircraft. It is just that all the other missiles suck  due to either being dumbfire or affected by the magical missile deflection button.

The best thing a stinger will do to a good pilot is to force them to use their flares and giving a possible opening to a friendly aircraft. If the pilot is near places to hide behind they can even make the missile hit an obstacle.

In the kingdom of the blind (the other missiles/rockets) the one eyed (Lissile) is king.

The maximum fuel capacity of the Lissile is still atrocious. Even heavy transport helis can outrange it if they get enough of a head-start or decide to camp the heli flight ceiling and thus become an orbital spawn point.

Even pre nerf, the Lissile would never hit my jets unless I did something STUPID like this

Tree and Lissile synergy - YouTube

@UP_Hawxxeye 
I disagree. Prior to the nerf, I found the TGM far too easy to use despite barely having any previous experience using it. Recently, a nightbird and jet pilot teamed up against me and won; so, I spawned as Lis and got both of them shortly afterwards (nightbird pilot is a pro and jet pilot is def above average). It's still overpowered against attack choppers IMO but not gonna talk too much about TGM performance here...

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@Wargame_Enj0yer wrote:

Next to the miniguns, I'd like to point to the UFO-like physics.

https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield2042/comments/135bcs7/most_targeted_pilot_in_battlefield/?sort=new

Why on earth Liz was nerfed and Nightbird stayed the same beats me. Especially console players got shafted with the Liz missile turnnerf.

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Keyboard lost the agility as well.  They essentially made Lis a recoil with half the range

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:

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It is not a case of the Lissile being particularly effective vs moronic aircraft pilots who hover and do not move..

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Fixed that for you Hawxxeye.     And when I say move, it takes 1 to 2 degrees and Lis cannot adjust the missile in time.   To put it frankly

If you're getting hit my Lis missiles, you suck at flying.  Period.  Simply stop hovering and you win.  

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@UP_Hawxxeye wrote:

 

Even pre nerf, the Lissile would never hit my jets unless I did something STUPID like this

Tree and Lissile synergy - YouTube

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The only way I hit jets was when they circled a building and I came from the other side.   And that was about a 1/100 success rate.

@Padding_Ur_Stats 
Skill issue. Again, I can hit good pilots with the TGM despite not having used the lissile that much - it's my way of getting cheap kills tbh. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kXjRO415B0 - that was when I had just started using the lissile. The lissile in its current state is actually better than chopper wire-guided missiles. Prior to the nerf, you could loop around and try to hit the target again if you missed - imagine thinking that was OK. 

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats 
Skill issue. Again, I can hit good pilots with the TGM despite not having used the lissile that much - it's my way of getting cheap kills tbh. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kXjRO415B0 - that was when I had just started using the lissile. The lissile in its current state is actually better than chopper wire-guided missiles. Prior to the nerf, you could loop around and try to hit the target again if you missed - imagine thinking that was OK. 

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 LOL.  I could give videos of Lis success too.  I t1d her.   What youre not showing is the number of times Lis is killed.   Your in a bird yourself there.   There just isnt that much space on the map for all the engineers.

Instead, be on the ground.  That being said, You got a 1 in 100 hit.  You fail to show the 99 misses.    1 success does not make Lis fine.  It is easier to shoot jets then nightbirds.  They do not have the agility nightbirds have.  Predicting where the planes nose is going to be is not that difficult. 

Nightbirds have agility.   A 1 to 2 degree shift and that missile misses.  

Imagine showing 1 success as a consistent play and thinking that was ok..........   Pilots continue to exaggerate, and lie about Lis to keep their EZMode.  

Unless youre protected in a Nightbird

Lis failures include

1. Missiles shot 3 out of 10 times
2. Lis, Because she glows red until rocket impact, is shot 3 out of 10 times
3. Missile misses due to lack of agility 2 out of 10 times.
4. Lis hits, and is immediately killed, but it's not the killing blow and the target heal bot repairs

How many 1 hit targets are there?

1. Bug Copters
2. Jets

Of the two, Jets are far easier to hit then copters.   If you get h it by Lis in a bug copter, you are a horrible pilot.  Period.  End of story.  No excuse. 

@Padding_Ur_Stats 

" It is easier to shoot jets then nightbirds.  They do not have the agility nightbirds have.  Predicting where the planes nose is going to be is not that difficult. 

Nightbirds have agility.   A 1 to 2 degree shift and that missile misses."

I agree. Hitting nightbirds with the TGM (and with pretty much any non-lockon weapons) is tricky if the pilot is not just hovering. I'd say that in its current state, the TGM is adequately effective against jets and stealth choppers but still overpowered against attack choppers).

"Imagine showing 1 success as a consistent play and thinking that was ok"

Happens consistently, just need to predict flight path (and it's actually easier to shoot from the ground). Jets are especially vulnerable when the pilot is engaged in a dogfight - the jet will sometimes fly as slow as 150-200 kmph in these situations and anyone with decent aim can get the jet (that was FAR too easy prior to the nerf because of the TGM's ridiculous agility and speed, which made dogfights meaningless).

Lis is extremely effective, i use her (with NTW50 and AT mines) to bully ground vehicles - she's actually more effective than jets against wildcats

@Metal_Daryl97The videos the sweats show us tell a different story. The intended counter, Liz, is not up to the task after the nerf. Therefore, a nerf to the NB is needed for a balanced game experience.

''Padding ur stats'' gave a great summary on the why and how here.

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats 

I agree. Hitting nightbirds with the TGM (and with pretty much any non-lockon weapons) is tricky if the pilot is not just hovering. I'd say that in its current state, the TGM is adequately effective against jets and stealth choppers but still overpowered against attack choppers).

I bet you would say that.  You would be wrong, but you would say that.  Any helo hit by Lis is just a bad pilot.  Period.  End of story.  Stop Flying.

"Imagine showing 1 success as a consistent play and thinking that was ok"

Happens consistently, just need to predict flight path (and it's actually easier to shoot from the ground). Jets are especially vulnerable when the pilot is engaged in a dogfight - the jet will sometimes fly as slow as 150-200 kmph in these situations and anyone with decent aim can get the jet (that was FAR too easy prior to the nerf because of the TGM's ridiculous agility and speed, which made dogfights meaningless).

So youre saying, Guess, and that is effective.   ROFLMFHAO.  You do realize that the jet is faster then the TGM unless boosted.  Additionally, if boosted, the jet just has to bank any direction and the Lissile will miss because boosting eliminates any hope to turn.   More lies

Lis is extremely effective, i use her (with NTW50 and AT mines) to bully ground vehicles - she's actually more effective than jets against wildcats

I bet you typed that laughing your * off.   You must have that new immune Lis whose rockets never get shot down and she is never targeted.   This is why this game is fubar.  Players lying through their teeth to protect easy mode while epeening skill.  Each on of your responses shows you do not know a thing about Lis.  

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@Wargame_Enj0yer 
I'm not opposed to a nightbird nerf (although DICE should be careful to not over-nerf the NB; for instance, I don't think that performance of the NB's 20mm cannons or miniguns against infantry should be nerfed). I am definitely against a TGM buff tho.

@Padding_Ur_Stats 
If you are having a hard time hitting ground targets with the EZ-mode-missile launcher, no wonder you can't hit choppers 🐱

I'm speaking as someone who has adequate experience using both the TGM and aircraft (nightbird, attack choppers and jets) - the TGM should actually be renamed to EZM. 

Also, I like how you ignored my previous request (from old Lis nerf thread) to record yourself being effective using the jets or Apache/Hokum (careful, a LATV4 Recon might get you 🙌 )

If you want DICE to turn the EZ-mode-missile launcher into the EZM deluxe 2.0, feel free to make a new thread.

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@Metal_Daryl97 wrote:

@Padding_Ur_Stats 
If you are having a hard time hitting ground targets with the EZ-mode-missile launcher, no wonder you can't hit choppers 🐱

Well I dont have the Pilots version of Lis.   Those versions are given to pilots so they can epeen how easy she is to protect their EZMode pilots.   You see, my Lis isnt invulnerable from being targeted while guiding her missile.  She glows big and red for all the enemy to target.   My Missiles hit boxes are much larger then the Pilot EZMode Lis's.  They get shot down quite a bit.   If none of that happened, I would be able to hit armor without an issue, unfortunately, because I choose to play infantry which takes skill, DICE makes it harder on me.  Dont believe me?  They admitted to making the game easier for pilots when they nerfed Lis.   They recognize the lack of skill so they had to make it easier for you.  🐱

I'm speaking as someone who has adequate experience using both the TGM and aircraft (nightbird, attack choppers and jets) - the TGM should actually be renamed to EZM. 

LOL at adequate.   You're lying through your teeth.  You're just not aware of it because you lack experience.  You believe you have all the playtime needed, and that is why the rest of us are laughing at you and not with you.

Also, I like how you ignored my previous request (from old Lis nerf thread) to record yourself being effective using the jets or Apache/Hokum (careful, a LATV4 Recon might get you 🙌 )

I do not have the recording programs on my system any longer.  I had to remove them because of hard drive space.   They also impeded my systems processing. 

If you want DICE to turn the EZ-mode-missile launcher into the EZM deluxe 2.0, feel free to make a new thread.

Yeah, thats the ticket!  I can lie through my teeth just like you.   I can misrepresent, lie, epeen, all in the name of making my game easier.  LOL that DICE admitted Pilots lack skill and they had to dumb down the game to make them happy.   🐱

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And just a side note.   I was the right gunner in a Hind yesterday.   I shot down 5 of the 6 Lissiles that came our way.   The one that did get through was part of a pair that I destroyed.  I bet that was yours.   🐱

Still laughing