Repetition of the Same Mistakes
Watching the Hazard Zone reveal was an interesting experience, and highlighted several things for me. The first being that DICE is trying something somewhat new with a BR-like mode, which is cool, bu...
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I subscribe to the specialist thing because i value squad play. If your squad is important then you want to have broad resources to cater for different scenario. "Casper, put your drone up" "Webster, sort out that guy on top of the building" "Boris, stick the sentry on that entrance" etc. in that context the specialist work. Squads members then get the option to kit out individually, in a good squad, they will vary their choices "Who's carrying the Ammo" "Who's taking sniper". That adds engagement and complexity. The squads that get that right will fair better, That was my take anyway and I love that teamwork approach, planning attacks etc. I hoped that this was the intention and that Dice were trying push players toward and add value to teamwork. if you don't get serviced with ammo in a game you are not in a proper squad
But, in reality, not many players play that way do they, and that I think is the real depreciation of the game over te past few versions. If you have been introduced to BF over the last 7 years or so you won't know that squad play is a good thing only KDR... and that is probably the best part of the market, 15 -22 year olds?
I don't think though I have seen much else in the Beta that might encourage that kind of play. The Specialist thing should not be happening in isolation, it needs some tools around it. Coms between squads (DICE - NOT B****Y push to talk or reliance on Discord) and a scoring system that rewards teamwork more. But even then i was looking for a bit of innovation on top. For a while I thought the tablets (that all players have) would bring something, but they are not tablets are they? They are just a menu that takes up the whole screen while you are fighting .... what a missed goal! What about a Map, chat between players, intel as well as call-ins and much more. Tasks missions, lore building, could've all been on there.
So I'm now much more sceptical than I started out. I still think we haven't seen the whole build yet, but without clues that something else is going to happen my optimism is drifting away.
@lzilchetl I think this new specialist system is made on the foundations of HZ, the teamplay will be a principle, if dice fix the issues around the system, cutting the selfish behavior by prioritizing teamwork ... Hazardzone have a chance to show how really this " teamwork" its done when the right choices (Right Specialists) has done. A lot of Hard Work
ahead for devs team, let see going to happen
ahead for devs team, let see going to happen
@lookcr wrote:
@lzilchetlI think this new specialist system is made on the foundations of HZ, the teamplay will be a principle, if dice fix the issues around the system, cutting the selfish behavior by prioritizing teamwork ... Hazardzone have a chance to show how really this " teamwork" its done when the right choices (Right Specialists) has done. A lot of Hard Work
ahead for devs team, let see going to happenI think you are dead right there about HZ... that's where the teamwork is, but i don't now know how they are going to encourage teamwork in the main game. Commander mode in BF2 with its destructible assets, joining as a Commander in BF4 with its ability to direct squads and provide types of support. Squads asking for help etc. Its meant to be 2042 for heavens sake, give us some advanced coms tech - but it doesn't feel like they are going there.
So, if you like old style you have Portal, and if you like Teamwork you have HZ, and I am beginning to think that these have been provided so the main game can be free to follow the FPS meta... and up to this point I had given dice the benefit of the doubt all the way through.
I'll tell you what has p***ed me off. Watching the Broken Machine grapple-hooking his way around the Orbital map on Beta. That's not the kind of fun or fantasy I am after TBH. (I didnt even like the hover-tanks in Final Stand)
@lzilchetl Honestly what I feel (and I believe most people in the community feels, at this point) is that they really should be utilizing the classes that these specialists derive from to the game's advantage. Even if they never brought back generic soldiers, they still can lock certain gadgets to the class archetypes. Then, the only issues that remain are visibility and distinguishable Friendlies/Enemies.
I'd like to see generic soldier options make a comeback, even if that means the Specialists become options as players characters per class as represented in a reddit users flow chart (this has been all over Youtube as of late as a an idea for the class system). But who knows what they'll actually do. Largely my concern has been teamwork, and I hear what some of you are saying by defending the now-open system that allows any player to equip anything. But that agency is now entirely up to the player to incorporate those team dynamics upon themselves, which is no guarantee at all, where as previously the game itself pushed and encouraged you to do so via the class system and class roles, xp bonuses, more realistic (yet clunky) movement mechanics that would reward you for various actions rather than to dart off quickly from enemy fire or lack of ease for reviving friendlies.
I'm not saying that I don't want any freedom of class/customization choice in this game. I actually enjoy some of the changes for the most part, but the most crucial one that is such a longshot from what the franchise has done well to differentiate itself from games like CoD lies almost solely in the fact that now everyone can use any gadget and there's no real way of distinguishing who has what resources. I've said this else where, but whilst playing BF4 after the beta it became abundantly clear to me how not only the class system in that game was working to the team's advantage, but also how notifications for resources would literally tell you (if running Support, let's say) that your team mates where low on ammo as they were blasting through their first mag. These were auto-notifications, same thing with health. If you got shot, a medic symbol immediately takes the place of whatever class symbol you're running and is flashing so anyone who is playing as a medic can see that and provide you assistance. But there's been none of that in this beta at all. And old build or not, for something as integral to the BF formula as this is, it's concerning to not see by any means.
- @lzilchetl Me too.
Had a few raw ideas about, I sayed this on my personal Beta Feedback topic too.
I liked freedom for all weapons and gadgets, in my opinion divide the class when the palyer choose gadget is one way to resolve, if you choose ammo bag independent whatever specialist you are is considered "Support Class" wich icons, and UI indicators for the team "Hey this guy have ammo bag, he is support" maybe a count of all player in the team with this "class" How many medics we have in team? With this we have two ways.
1 - Exp earnd It can be boosted with x1, x2, x3 ... based on these actions, for example 6 revives give players boost exp in 2x
2- Lock the weapons/ gadgets progression with class. You continue being able to choose all, but you only unlock this equips playing as "the class", LMGs only unlock playing with support gadgets uses.
I Know, has problems but is only a raw idea. @lookcr I'm almost 100% onboard with this idea. Whether or not anything changes with how weapon freedoms work in the game, you mentioned a very important change just now with assigning the role to whatever gadget the player is carrying. I think if nothing else, that's a good start. I noticed in the beta that Falcks default "class" icon is ammo, but that's incredibly misleading as she could be carrying ammo, or a rocket launcher, or med bag, or repair tool and it wouldn't display anything different.
If the game is going to do away with classes entirely, then why do the Specialists have any symbol tying them, to essentially nothing of any value, in the first place? We can already tell at first glance what Specialists people are playing as, but that's not nearly important or valuable enough to take a step further and signify via the UI. The UI should be used in favor of showing what valuable resource they're carrying, and for godssake, reward them for carrying it when others in their squad aren't. I really like your ideas. Maybe someone at DICE is taking notes here reading this lol
@lookcr To take this thought process even further, you may recall in the beta that they actually had preset classes that were literally named after class roles. It's as though they considered very strongly doing this exact thing that we're talking about, but also opted for absolute freedom of choice across the board.
- @TONYBOY56--_ Yeaah, as you said we have the preset class loadouts there, maybe needs a litle bit adjusment or use this "feature" for the problem, why not? Thanks for share your opinion Bro.
@TONYBOY56--_ wrote..
"_ but also how notifications for resources would literally tell you (if running Support, let's say) that your team mates where low on ammo as they were blasting through their first mag. These were auto-notifications, same thing with health. If you got shot, a medic symbol immediately takes the place of whatever class symbol you're running and is flashing so anyone who is playing as a medic can see that and provide you assistance. But there's been none of that in this beta at all."
@lookcr wrote:
@lzilchetlMe too.
Had a few raw ideas about, I sayed this on my personal Beta Feedback topic too.
I liked freedom for all weapons and gadgets, in my opinion divide the class when the palyer choose gadget is one way to resolve, if you choose ammo bag independent whatever specialist you are is considered "Support Class" wich icons, and UI indicators for the team "Hey this guy have ammo bag, he is support" maybe a count of all player in the team with this "class" How many medics we have in team? With this we have two ways.I think we are on similar ground here. My disappointment is the lack of imagination. We're in a near future conflict, we're changing weapon attachments using a simulated hud .Why not press a key and the augmented reality kicks in and your hud overlay displays the status of the soldiers in view. This one's got ammo crates, this one's short of ammo, this one's 50% health, that one's an enemy. Might be a slight visual penalty to stop the AR being used all the time. Perfectly feasible and perfectly in line with near future setting and probably not too far from what will be available to the military in 20+ years time..... and settles part (not all) of the "specialist problem".
That's just one way it might have been tackled. I'm sure there are more imaginative people than me who could find more elegant solutions. My point is though, I was really looking forward to something new in the use of technology to reflect the future setting. Soldiers dragging themselves around with grappling hooks was not what I had in mind.
@lzilchetl wrote:That's just one way it might have been tackled. I'm sure there are more imaginative people than me who could find more elegant solutions. My point is though, I was really looking forward to something new in the use of technology to reflect the future setting. Soldiers dragging themselves around with grappling hooks was not what I had in mind.
Great point @lzilchetl
Despite what some keep insisting on, then this BF2042 game is not innovative at all.
And looking at the whole package, then this next BF game is...:
- Titled to be taking place in 2042.
- To be launched in 2021.
- Beta programmed allegedly in 2019 (or what is the excuse now?)
- Having game mechanics like in games from 2010.
- Have graphics and movements like in computer games made in 1998.
- And include weapons/gadgets like a grapling hook, which was a cool new thing when used by Roman soldiers back in year 260 BC!!! 😀
@CyberDyme wrote:
@lzilchetl wrote:That's just one way it might have been tackled. I'm sure there are more imaginative people than me who could find more elegant solutions. My point is though, I was really looking forward to something new in the use of technology to reflect the future setting. Soldiers dragging themselves around with grappling hooks was not what I had in mind.
Great point @lzilchetl
Despite what some keep insisting on, then this BF2042 game is not innovative at all.
And looking at the whole package, then this next BF game is...:
- Titled to be taking place in 2042.
- To be launched in 2021.
- Beta programmed allegedly in 2019 (or what is the excuse now?)
- Having game mechanics like in games from 2010.
- Have graphics and movements like in computer games made in 1998.
- And include weapons/gadgets like a grappling hook, which was a cool new thing when used by Roman soldiers back in year 260 BC!!! 😀
Brilliant! Made me laugh! Its the truth though isn't it! I've remained optimistic since the reveal and been a bit impatient with the doomsayers... but I'm struggling to imagine how the build used in the beta might become the game that I was hoping was going to knock my socks off.
